Phoenix talking to Brian Grant

[Evil Ash]

As many as possible according to the new Suns' doctrine. It seems to me that we are too extreme in everything. For a while it was the extreme youth movement, where no one on the squad was over thirty except a few misfits. We were all about potential. We then went into "win now" mode, but again have gone too extreme, to the point that we have been loathe to stay in drafts or pick up/keep any player 27 or younger.

It seems to me that in the latter half of last year we had a good mix of veterans and young players, and that attributed to a lot of our succcess. The Q for KT was a good move at first, although I hated losing out on the current draft, particularly when it was so deep. But pretty much everything after that has questionable. We offered Bell a big contract, and then went really, really cheap after that. Some statements in today's EVTribune article made it sound like we are pretty much done after the JJ trade, and in my opinion we have left some gaping holes.

Behind Amare and KT we really have nothing but question marks. Burke has never done anything on an NBA level. Tischer has never played in the NBA. Padgett is not a tradition 4 or 5 at all, and has traditionally been a marginal player anyway (never averaged even 20mpg, 4 rebounds, or 7 points). That's not incredibly encouraging.

And backup PG is just as bad. We have Barbosa, who has yet to really grasp some of the finer principles of running a team (some think he never will) and has been terribly erratic. And we have Diaw, another marginal player that seems to have some potential - but we have a coach that seems very put off by inconsistency. I wouldn't call that position covered at all.

If we have to run with Bell or JJax in the starting lineup, we actually have less depth overall than last year right now, and we were hurting for depth last year. We have also inserted two players into the starting lineup that have never in their careers played the number of minutes that our starters typically have. Can KT, for example, stay on the floor for 35+ minutes without for getting too many fouls? The same needs to be asked for Bell. Will KTs body accept that kind of punishment over the long haul and still give him enough juice for the postseason?

I think we still need some more work, even if we hold off using the big TE until later. We need a few more reliable players before training camp.

Some suggestions on the cheap: Grant or some other amnesty casualty big, Dan Dickau, Jay Williams, Steve Blake, Devin Brown, Mikki Moore. I'm sure there are others, not to mention players lost in other teams rotation that the minor TE might land.

Hello chicken little. Hate to break it to you but the sky is not falling. Yes, we lost JJ but life will move on without him. Heck we won a playoff series without him. How in the world can that be? He created his own shots right and was the entirety of our offense? If you really think this you need to check yourself

Yes the loss of JJ hurts like many of us have said but in order to sign JJ we would've had to do the exact same thing we're doing now ... namely in changing the team around. The truth of the matter is that we would've been massively hamstrung by the JJ contract ... sure it would've been nice to keep him on this team but he evidently is so mentally soft (if you are wanting to leave a team due to how contract negotiations happened a year ago YOU ARE BEYOND SOFT) that he wanted to move to a new team when things did not go his way. I'd rather not worry about having a heartbroken, mentally soft player, that could easily go back into his shell again. Yes he had a great year but thats all it was a great year. The offense will simply not vanish due to his departure

The reasons we lost the series against the eventual world champions is because we couldn't rebound to save our lives, left ginobli and parker drive the lane at will, and having a sheer lack of depth lead to players being exhausted (especially nash). When JJ came back we won A GAME ... not the series ... A GAME. Some people on here act as though he would've been the difference in that series but trust me it was proven otherwise.

We have added some players to help with our weaknesses from last year and are continually adding role players to fill out the roster. Will this roster be as good as last year? Heck I couldn't tell you due to the simple point that OUR ROSTER ISN'T COMPLETED YET. All rambling, whining, complaining and stating about how this team will stink is good for letting stress out and nothing more. Lets wait until the final team is completed and heck maybe even see how they play on the basketball court (rather than on paper) before we declare this team to have gone on a major step back

As far as Brian Grant goes he'd be a decent addition for this team if he can remain healthy enough to play around 10 minutes a game. He'd be a nice role player addition to rebound, play defense, and occassionally hit the wide open jump shot. He's not starting for us, he'd just be a bench player.

Yes we seem to be going torwards older players mainly for 3 reasons. 1) Older players know that they are role players and don't bitch and complain about a lack of playing time, shots, etc. They do what they are supposed to and help the team. 2) Older players also tend not to overvalue themselves. There are a great deal of younger players that overvalue themselves and see themselves as something greater than what they are (quite a few are glorified role players) and hence seek the bigger paycheck. 3) Sorta goes with 2 in the fact that they want to win championships and that is their top priority. Its all about winning with these players (they don't have to be older but thats the tendency) not their next pay day.

We still have pieces in place (namely 2 trade exemptions and draft picks) in order for us to add to this team. We have to take a wait and see approach to judge the team when the season starts ... until then its pointless

 

[devilalum]

No wonder he's having health problems.

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[Dustbuster]

Hello chicken little. Hate to break it to you but the sky is not falling. Yes, we lost JJ but life will move on without him. Heck we won a playoff series without him. How in the world can that be? He created his own shots right and was the entirety of our offense? If you really think this you need to check yourself

Yes the loss of JJ hurts like many of us have said but in order to sign JJ we would've had to do the exact same thing we're doing now ... namely in changing the team around. The truth of the matter is that we would've been massively hamstrung by the JJ contract ... sure it would've been nice to keep him on this team but he evidently is so mentally soft (if you are wanting to leave a team due to how contract negotiations happened a year ago YOU ARE BEYOND SOFT) that he wanted to move to a new team when things did not go his way. I'd rather not worry about having a heartbroken, mentally soft player, that could easily go back into his shell again. Yes he had a great year but thats all it was a great year. The offense will simply not vanish due to his departure

The reasons we lost the series against the eventual world champions is because we couldn't rebound to save our lives, left ginobli and parker drive the lane at will, and having a sheer lack of depth lead to players being exhausted (especially nash). When JJ came back we won A GAME ... not the series ... A GAME. Some people on here act as though he would've been the difference in that series but trust me it was proven otherwise.

We have added some players to help with our weaknesses from last year and are continually adding role players to fill out the roster. Will this roster be as good as last year? Heck I couldn't tell you due to the simple point that OUR ROSTER ISN'T COMPLETED YET. All rambling, whining, complaining and stating about how this team will stink is good for letting stress out and nothing more. Lets wait until the final team is completed and heck maybe even see how they play on the basketball court (rather than on paper) before we declare this team to have gone on a major step back

As far as Brian Grant goes he'd be a decent addition for this team if he can remain healthy enough to play around 10 minutes a game. He'd be a nice role player addition to rebound, play defense, and occassionally hit the wide open jump shot. He's not starting for us, he'd just be a bench player.

Yes we seem to be going torwards older players mainly for 3 reasons. 1) Older players know that they are role players and don't bitch and complain about a lack of playing time, shots, etc. They do what they are supposed to and help the team. 2) Older players also tend not to overvalue themselves. There are a great deal of younger players that overvalue themselves and see themselves as something greater than what they are (quite a few are glorified role players) and hence seek the bigger paycheck. 3) Sorta goes with 2 in the fact that they want to win championships and that is their top priority. Its all about winning with these players (they don't have to be older but thats the tendency) not their next pay day.

We still have pieces in place (namely 2 trade exemptions and draft picks) in order for us to add to this team. We have to take a wait and see approach to judge the team when the season starts ... until then its pointless

Notice that I never once used the word JJ in the entire post. Nor have I ever, once, stated that JJ was our entire offense. I do believe that it would have taken a maximum of five games to beat Dallas with JJ, but thanks to an extraordinary effort by Nash and at least in one case, Marion, we did win that series. I in no way am belittling Nash, Marion, and Amare, whom are now our core and some of my favorite players. And, I do agree that there is a certain amount of venting of frustration in many posts (many of my own) and that there is a possibility that things will improve.

But none of that undoes the truth of my post, which I stand beside. As a knowledgable fan I am less than impressed by the moves this offseason, and am concerned when we rely too much on players that are past their prime and are more prone to injury. I think that this trend will only add to the revolving door of personnel that many fans, including myself, are sick and tired of.

RE: JJ and the playoffs. Nothing was proved. He wore a mask, was out of conditioning from a fairly major surgery (involving 14 screws into his skull), and had a total of three games to try to get his rhythm back. In the second game that he returned he was the difference maker - the gave that we won. It is definitely not a sure thing that the Suns would have won the series - all things being equal. Would it have been more competitive? Undoubtedly. Remember that in several of the games that we lost, we were winning going into the fourth, and it was often fatigue (a byproduct of JJ being out, for one thing) that often killed us.

And, Evil Ash, I disagree with the remainder of your post. Give me facts, prove me wrong, otherwise don't try to scold me like a schoolboy. I gave facts, not just opinions, so I challenge you to prove me wrong with more than just your opinion. The main reason that we are going for older players right now is their price, pure and simple. We can afford little else, and have shortchanged ourselves on the draft and thus young, developing talent at a bargain price. Do you think we might be in better position, for example, if we had Andre Iguadala and Wayne Simian (or some other big) from the last two drafts (both players we could have had). I would say definitely.

How about this lineup:

Nash/Barbosa
JJ (at 50 million over 6 years)/Bell
Iguadala/JJax
Marion/Wayne Simien (or other draftee)
Amare/FA Big

We could have this team, afford it, and be both an extremly talented and improving team. We might even have landed KT another way.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but it also revealed that we made some wrong moves. Doesn't that mean that we might have made some mistakes this year as well?

 

[myrondizzo]

we couldnt have got simien and iggy. bottom line is we cant sign a young player. with the cap like it is what are we supposed to offer them? the LLE thats it thats all we have to sign someone or whats left of the MLE and if you now a young guy that could play any min that would come over for that let us know who. these amnesty players can be a bargin because they are still getting paid from there other team.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

we couldnt have got simien and iggy. bottom line is we cant sign a young player. with the cap like it is what are we supposed to offer them? the LLE thats it thats all we have to sign someone or whats left of the MLE and if you now a young guy that could play any min that would come over for that let us know who. these amnesty players can be a bargin because they are still getting paid from there other team.

He is not talking about trades he is talking about how he thinks the Suns should have handled the last two season of picks. Instead of freaking out and dumping your picks and younger players maybe for once they could build a team w/o massive turnover and just draft smartly keep your own key players, trade and sign wisely that is all I think he is trying to get at and if so I completely agree with his points and I also am not going to put a blind fold on and say Boris Diaw is the next comming and Brian Grant s going to pull down 8 boards a game, but hey I am not a fan of extreme disapointment either.

Maybe we can work in Dale Davis, Clyde Drexler and Mark Price to sure up the teams needs too.

 

[Errntknght]

I don't like the idea of getting a big who is so limited in the PT he can tolerate. It's dotty to go into the season being an injury away from having to depend on Burke, Padgett and Tischer for major minutes and Brian Grant doesn't appear able to eliminate that possibility. Of course, I hope that Burke will quickly prove to be as useful as Hunter was but, IMO, it is far from a sure thing. If we were to add two more bigs then I wouldn't mind Grant but I'm hoping one of our last two slots will go for a backup PG. If the Suns are thinking of Diaw as a backup point then they may well want to add another SG/wing.

 

[SirStefan32]

If Grant wants to come, it's a no- brainer. No Wally, thank you very much.

 

[az1965]

I understand the reason for some of the transactions such as KT and agree with the need for it. However, my concern is that we are too much focused on win now and building a team that we will have to rebuild in another couple of years.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

He is not talking about trades he is talking about how he thinks the Suns should have handled the last two season of picks.

The point is the Suns couldn't have had both of those players. Had they taken Iggy instead of trading the pick they would not have had a pick in this past years draft since NY owned our pick via SA from the Barbosa trade.

He was saying we should have taken 2 players with essentially 1 pick.

 

[Chaplin]

I understand the reason for some of the transactions such as KT and agree with the need for it. However, my concern is that we are too much focused on win now and building a team that we will have to rebuild in another couple of years.

As long as we have Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on this team (and to a lesser extent Steve Nash), we won't have to completely rebuild.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

As long as we have Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on this team (and to a lesser extent Steve Nash), we won't have to completely rebuild.

Not to mention this Joe Johnson trade is bringing us 2 probable lottery picks. Until we trade those away, we can look forward to that youth movement.

 

[George O'Brien]

I understand the reason for some of the transactions such as KT and agree with the need for it. However, my concern is that we are too much focused on win now and building a team that we will have to rebuild in another couple of years.

Actually the decision to let JJ go was as much due to the fear that his contract would cripple them in the future. I realize there is a belief the Suns are going to simply trade away the draft picks they've picked up, but in any case they can be used to help replenish the personnel.

 

[az1965]

Not to mention this Joe Johnson trade is bringing us 2 probable lottery picks. Until we trade those away, we can look forward to that youth movement.

I thought the picks are lottery protected?

 

[George O'Brien]

I thought the picks are lottery protected?

Until it is finalized it is just rumor. My understanding is that one of the picks is the LA pick which is protected for the top 10. The Atlanta pick is lottery protected for 2006 but only top 3 protected for 2007.

 

[Chaplin]

Most likely scenario is that we WILL get the Laker pick next year (I can't see the Lakers getting a 10 or better) and we'll have our own, and you have to figure there is a pretty good chance we'll get Atlanta's pick in 2007 (assuming they improve at least a little bit) along with our own.

So I estimate we'll have 2 first rounders for the next couple years.

 

[Dustbuster]

Most likely scenario is that we WILL get the Laker pick next year (I can't see the Lakers getting a 10 or better) and we'll have our own, and you have to figure there is a pretty good chance we'll get Atlanta's pick in 2007 (assuming they improve at least a little bit) along with our own.

So I estimate we'll have 2 first rounders for the next couple years.

That's a reasonable assessment. My one concern about having multiple picks in next year's draft is that by most accounts it should be a weak draft, with the high schoolers weeded out and less and less quality Euros making the jump. Probably the worse case scenario would be if Atlanta improved enough that we got that pick next year as well.

But you never know what might show up in the draft. Even if it's a "weak" draft, all you have to do is pick the right player. JJ's draft was considered a weak one, for example.

 

[Chaplin]

That's a reasonable assessment. My one concern about having multiple picks in next year's draft is that by most accounts it should be a weak draft, with the high schoolers weeded out and less and less quality Euros making the jump. Probably the worse case scenario would be if Atlanta improved enough that we got that pick next year as well.

But you never know what might show up in the draft. Even if it's a "weak" draft, all you have to do is pick the right player. JJ's draft was considered a weak one, for example.

Atlanta's pick next year is lottery protected. I don't think that even the few fans in Atlanta are holding out hope that the Hawks make the playoffs.

 

[Dustbuster]

Atlanta's pick next year is lottery protected. I don't think that even the few fans in Atlanta are holding out hope that the Hawks make the playoffs.

Wasn't it Atlanta that a few years ago had their staff answering the phone "Hello, you've reached the playoff bound Atlanta Hawks..." all season and then didn't make the playoffs?

 

[elindholm]

Wasn't it Atlanta that a few years ago had their staff answering the phone "Hello, you've reached the playoff bound Atlanta Hawks..." all season and then didn't make the playoffs?

That sounds familiar. I think they even promised their season ticket holders a playoff appearance, then had to give them partial refunds at the end of the season.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Actually the decision to let JJ go was as much due to the fear that his contract would cripple them in the future. I realize there is a belief the Suns are going to simply trade away the draft picks they've picked up, but in any case they can be used to help replenish the personnel.

Well I can see this 07 pick being traded away if for example they are strapped with KT's contract in 07 or 08 and want the "flexability", which seems to be the magic word for making everyone feel better about bad deals. We have seen the Suns deal top 10 picks before and there is a reasonable chance with his age that KT's play declines or gets injuried over the next few years.

All speculation of course but who know what other older players they may get into a cap strapping deal with over the next few years. Let's just hope they use these picks wisely in any scenario and not just give them away because they entered into a long term deal with some has been from mid 90's.

 

[sunsfn]

If the suns are going to trade any picks, hopefully they can use their own picks which will be late round picks. The 10th pick next year should be a decent player even in a bad draft. The Hawks pick in two years should be in the 4th to 10th place I would think.

The suns probably do not want two picks each year anyway.
So giving up their pick for someone like Wilcox along with an exception is a good deal for the suns. Also of course for thegrahamcracker's favorite want of Jackson from the Cavs.

.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Wilcox is not a defensive bigman, he is a score first type player, just curious why would the Suns want him? he likely would never work with Amare at the same time. Unless I missed the memo the reason we got a player like Thomas was becasue he would'nt clog the lanes.

 

[sunsfn]

Wilcox is not a defensive bigman, he is a score first type player, just curious why would the Suns want him? he likely would never work with Amare at the same time. Unless I missed the memo the reason we got a player like Thomas was becasue he would'nt clog the lanes.

I was using Wilcox as an example. He is available from the Clips and would be a starter on a lot of teams right now. With Eldon Brand there he will not get the minutes and the Clips are wanting to move him. Gooden from the Cavs is another big that would be available, the same as Jackson may be available.

I am not sure why you said he could not play with Amare, Wilcox can play center or power forward.

The suns need a big man and if you know of one that is available say so. Gooden and Wilcox are available. There may be players you want, but that does not mean you can just trade for them.



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[Dustbuster]

Does anyone else here use Firefox? For some reason this site does not allow me to cut and paste within Firefox. It says that I need to edit my Firefox config file. I've looked for some option to rectify this without success. Is there someone who can help me with this?

 

[George O'Brien]

One of the attractions of Brian Grant is that he is supposed to have a good mid range jump shot. My guess is that the Suns are not going to go after a guy who can't shoot if they have any choice.