Plan for a Three-Peat!

[Pariah]

In the just held press conference, in DC, to welcome McNabb, Shanahan stated, he had lunch with Campbell yesterday and have given him the permission to seek a starter's job with another organization.

Wow, try to use, more commas, next time!

 

[AZ Native]

BigDavis: the Cardinals were reluctant to pay KW $12M a year...there is NO way they will pay Leinart $14M to stick around for one more year. NO WAY, my friend. This is why you will see in the weeks ahead there will be some kind of a move at the QB position which will nip this all in the bud...either by a trade or a high draft pick. Whiz is NOT going to sit still on this one...there is not one iota of a chance for that.

Of course we wouldn't pay him $14M after this year, the contract would be reworked. It's done all the time. Matt has this year to make his case, it is as simple as that.

 

[Pariah]

Whiz didn't draft him, he's bypassed [Leinart] before and quite frankly if the Cardinals are inquiring about McNabb and trying to offer a 3rd round draft pick for Charlie Whitehurst and offer Derek Anderson an insanely loaded contract with incentives, how does all of these maneuverings suggest Whiz has confidence in Leinart?

Leinart IS an unknown, but that doesn't mean Whiz is insincere when he says the job is his--even if there has been some movement in the offseason to fill the 2 other QB slots on the roster.

McNabb -- I think when there's an established veteran player on the block and you have a largely unknown quantity pencilled in as the starter, you make inquires. Obviously, they didn't want to pay the price Philly was asking, and that should tell you where Leinart is on the pecking order: he's more important than a second round pick.

Anderson -- Why does an "insanely" incentive-laden contract suggest to you that the organization doesn't have faith in Leinart? That kind of contract tells me that DA's agent doesn't have faith in Leinart, but that the organization doesn't expect DA to see the field much.

Plus.., the circumstances of Leinart's contract suggest this is his last year in Arizona regadless of what happens.

I strongly disagree. If Leinart performs, the contract as written isn't out of the question. It's what you pay a good starting QB in the NFL.


Look, Leinart may fall on his face. He may take the bull by the horns and excell. You and I don't know. Coach doesn't either, but he has a better handle on it than we do, and at the end of the day he's going to battle with Leinart ... the moves the Cards actually pulled the trigger on seem to suggest that they're sincere in their belief that hes' the guy.

 

[Mitch]

Of course we wouldn't pay him $14M after this year, the contract would be reworked. It's done all the time. Matt has this year to make his case, it is as simple as that.

You're right, AZ Native, IF Leinart wants to re-work it. Rolle didn't.

What some may be overlooking here: ML may not be all that enthralled about playing for Whiz and the Cardinals beyond this year in light of how things have gone thus far. One decent year---if that can happen this year---may not change ML's perspectives on that. Leinart knows that no matter what Whiz has been saying recently that he's a 3 interception game away from being handed the clipboard.

 

[binkar]

Dems, I just don't understand what people see in Leinart. The rest of the USA is pretty much feeling the same way. He looks scared in the pocket and his throws are consistently rushed and high. His numbers corroborate this. Ask Anquan Boldin who had to miss the playoffs because of it.

And the thing that mystifies me even more is why so many here actually think Whiz really plans to stick with Leinart this year. Whiz didn't draft him, he's bypassed him before and quite frankly if the Cardinals are inquiring about McNabb and trying to offer a 3rd round draft pick for Charlie Whitehurst and offer Derek Anderson an insanely loaded contract with incentives, how does all of these maneuverings suggest Whiz has confidence in Leinart?

Plus.., the circumstances of Leinart's contract suggest this is his last year in Arizona regadless of what happens.

Do you think Whiz want to experiment with Leinart for a year, knowing that likely the team will lose it's grasp on the NFC West and have to part ways with Leinart anyway?

Whiz is smarter than all of this. He's been talking up Leinart in the hopes that he can either get something out of him this year if need be or he can get someone to trade for him. There is no legitimate trust in Leinart from Whiz. It's all been coach-speak.

I won't comment on the rest of the post, but have you looked at the structure of DA's deal? It's EXTREMELY backloaded for the second year. Which is to suggest that they will pay him starters money if either A) Matt doesn't perform and they cut him because of his bonuses due, or B) They can't work anything out with Matt's contract and they have to part ways.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Oly, take a look at Cambell's stats last year...they are very close to KW's...despite the fact that Campbell was playing behind what was arguably the worst o-line in the NFC. Even the scouts at Scouts, Inc. rave about his skills. Read what they say about Campbel and then read what they say about Leinart. There is no comparison...it ends right away with "Campbell can make all the throws." Plus he has the feet, Oly, I'm just saying...the feet, my man!

If Jason Campbell is the next Kurt Warner as you are implying why in the world would Washington trade for McNabb and why would they be actively shopping Campbell?

 

[DemsMyBoys]

What some may be overlooking here: ML may not be all that enthralled about playing for Whiz and the Cardinals beyond this year in light of how things have gone thus far.

You know, I'd never even thought of it that way. New perspective for me, Mitch.

 

[CtCardinals78]

What some may be overlooking here: ML may not be all that enthralled about playing for Whiz and the Cardinals beyond this year in light of how things have gone thus far.

Yet he may be. He got paid well to watch a HOF QB guide this team to two playoff appearances. He learned the system behind one of the gamess best QB's and did everything right. It is now his team.

One decent year---if that can happen this year---may not change ML's perspectives on that. Leinart knows that no matter what Whiz has been saying recently that he's a 3 interception game away from being handed the clipboard.

Sorry I just don't see it. How many horrific games did Warner have and Wiz stuck with him. Wiz is not going to give up on Leinart over a 3 INT game. He is going to have one of the leagues most explosive offenses in the game to work with, a stable Oline, a solid run game and one of the leagues best WR corps. He just MAY want to stay knowing that if he does play well he will be the QBOF and get a nice contract.

 

[DoTheDew]

You know, I'd never even thought of it that way. New perspective for me, Mitch.

ML would have to be extremely cocky to think he can go elsewhere and get a starting job unless he performs admirably this year. I highly doubt he would turn down any chance we give him to continue playing right now. He has no legs to stand on in regards to that.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I must have missed the first two peats.

JTS

Me too.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Dems, I just don't understand what people see in Leinart. The rest of the USA is pretty much feeling the same way. He looks scared in the pocket and his throws are consistently rushed and high. His numbers corroborate this. Ask Anquan Boldin who had to miss the playoffs because of it.

And the thing that mystifies me even more is why so many here actually think Whiz really plans to stick with Leinart this year. Whiz didn't draft him, he's bypassed him before and quite frankly if the Cardinals are inquiring about McNabb and trying to offer a 3rd round draft pick for Charlie Whitehurst and offer Derek Anderson an insanely loaded contract with incentives, how does all of these maneuverings suggest Whiz has confidence in Leinart?

Plus.., the circumstances of Leinart's contract suggest this is his last year in Arizona regadless of what happens.

Do you think Whiz want to experiment with Leinart for a year, knowing that likely the team will lose it's grasp on the NFC West and have to part ways with Leinart anyway?

Whiz is smarter than all of this. He's been talking up Leinart in the hopes that he can either get something out of him this year if need be or he can get someone to trade for him. There is no legitimate trust in Leinart from Whiz. It's all been coach-speak.

What mystifies me, is why you keep returning this "issue in your mind", after saying that you were going to give it a rest, and let it play itself out?

You're already on record as saying that there is NO WAY that Leinart starts the season at QB, and that Whiz is too smart to allow this to transpire.

So... WE GET IT! - Leinart can't play the position, and Whiz is an idiot if he doesn't recognize this as so.

You've been a hater since the hot tub. bong days... and have never relented, to the point that you are simply not a credible voice on the issue.

PS: Whiz was not part of drafting Matt, and neither was he involved in hiring Kurt.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Dems, I just don't understand what people see in Leinart. The rest of the USA is pretty much feeling the same way.

Mitch, to be fair, when has the rest of the USA gotten anything right in regards to the Cardinals?

 

[JeffGollin]

Book on Leinart - Has college creds in big time program. Has shown brief flashes of what his A Game might look like, but more often, he displayed flashes of inconsistency and rookie-like flakiness. Then he got Wally Pipped by Kurt Warner and rode the pines for the better part of two years. Athletically, he doesn't appear to have Vick, Young or even McNabb-like skills, but then again, neither did guys like Brees or Montana.

So what have we got? A better-than-average (but not elite) athlete with a good pedigree but who (due to the vagaries of KW's excellent twilight career) hasn't yet proved on the field that he can carry this football team. (This doesn't mean he won't; it just means he hasn't yet. But it also doesn't mean that he will).

And then there's Campbell. Very athletic. Ran the Redskin offense. Has looked elite at times. Not-so-elite at others. Could he carry the Cardinals offense if given the chance? Maybe. Maybe not. (Thing of it is - we already have Anderson under contract. Like Campbell, he's performed like an elite-QB in the past. But not-so-elite (in fact downright ugly) more recently).

So do we get rid of Leinart and place the destiny of the Cardinals in the hands of one or the other of two QB's who looked great sometimes but not-so-great at others?

Or do we stick with Matt - a high-potential guy with some questions to be answered -who's been in our system for four years and has had the opportunity to learn from a master?

And, assuming we keep Leinart, would we sign Campbell and drop Anderson - thereby replacing one uncertain but high-potential QB with another?

Seems to me, we've finalized our QB strategy - Leinart - Anderson - BSP. Final cog - a rookie QB to develop (& not just a "place holder" - a genuine QBOF type). I wouldn't be shocked if we used #88, #89 or #123 to grab Tebow if he falls that far. Or (should Tebow be off our board) aim for Skelton or one of the two Browns.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Book on Leinart - Has college creds in big time program. Has shown brief flashes of what his A Game might look like, but more often, he displayed flashes of inconsistency and rookie-like flakiness. Then he got Wally Pipped by Kurt Warner and rode the pines for the better part of two years. Athletically, he doesn't appear to have Vick, Young or even McNabb-like skills, but then again, neither did guys like Brees or Montana.

So what have we got? A better-than-average (but not elite) athlete with a good pedigree but who (due to the vagaries of KW's excellent twilight career) hasn't yet proved on the field that he can carry this football team. (This doesn't mean he won't; it just means he hasn't yet. But it also doesn't mean that he will).

And then there's Campbell. Very athletic. Ran the Redskin offense. Has looked elite at times. Not-so-elite at others. Could he carry the Cardinals offense if given the chance? Maybe. Maybe not. (Thing of it is - we already have Anderson under contract. Like Campbell, he's performed like an elite-QB in the past. But not-so-elite (in fact downright ugly) more recently).

So do we get rid of Leinart and place the destiny of the Cardinals in the hands of one or the other of two QB's who looked great sometimes but not-so-great at others?

Or do we stick with Matt - a high-potential guy with some questions to be answered -who's been in our system for four years and has had the opportunity to learn from a master?

And, assuming we keep Leinart, would we sign Campbell and drop Anderson - thereby replacing one uncertain but high-potential QB with another?

Seems to me, we've finalized our QB strategy - Leinart - Anderson - BSP. Final cog - a rookie QB to develop (& not just a "place holder" - a genuine QBOF type). I wouldn't be shocked if we used #88, #89 or #123 to grab Tebow if he falls that far. Or (should Tebow be off our board) aim for Skelton or one of the two Browns.

I wouldn't be shocked either if after we've drafted, (not necessarily in this order), a NT, ILB/OLB, cornerback, and receiver or TE - that we select a QBOF type. But, let's be clear -- anyone outside of the top 3 QB's is a longer term project.

This is a deep draft on the "D" side, and an opportunity to load up for years to come. As such, I, for one, have little interest in using any pick between rounds 1 and 4 on a QB.

 

[Cardiac]

I wouldn't be shocked either if after we've drafted, (not necessarily in this order), a NT, ILB/OLB, cornerback, and receiver or TE - that we select a QBOF type. But, let's be clear -- anyone outside of the top 3 QB's is a longer term project.

This is a deep draft on the "D" side, and an opportunity to load up for years to come. As such, I, for one, have little interest in using any pick between rounds 1 and 4 on a QB.

I'll see ya and raise I hope we don't draft a QB at all this year. Bring in a truck load of UDFA's and let them have at it.

 

[kerouac9]

I'll see ya and raise I hope we don't draft a QB at all this year. Bring in a truck load of UDFA's and let them have at it.

This is where I am. There were only 12 QBs drafted last season: three in the first round and five in the 6th or 7th round. Thirteen were drafted in 2008: two in the first round, eight in the last three rounds(!).

I think that past history has shown that if you're not worming your way into the second round as a quarterback, you're going to have a bit of a wait--like 15 hours' wait.

After Colt McCoy comes off the board sometime in the second (he'll likely be the 4th QB taken), then I think we won't see more than a dozen other guys come off the board overall, and maybe only three or four before the last two rounds (probably Skelton, Brown, LeFevour, and Crompton--just as a guess).

That means that guys like Kafka, Armanti Edwards (who I think the Cards should take in the sixth, seventh, or make a priority FA), maybe Chris Turner (Maryland), or Joe Webb (UAB) will be available late or undrafted.

The day of the mid-round quarterback is over--at least for now. Does John David Booty (5th round, 2008) even still have a job in the NFL? How did drafting Brian Brohm in the 2nd work out for Green Bay? Second-round picks John Beck and Drew Stanton are competing for roster spots, not starting jobs, as they enter their third year. In 2005, third- or fourth-round picks were spent on guys like Andrew Walter, David Greene, and Stefan LeFors. LeFors doesn't even have a page on NFL.com. David Greene and Walter are both out of the NFL.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

This is where I am. There were only 12 QBs drafted last season: three in the first round and five in the 6th or 7th round. Thirteen were drafted in 2008: two in the first round, eight in the last three rounds(!).

I think that past history has shown that if you're not worming your way into the second round as a quarterback, you're going to have a bit of a wait--like 15 hours' wait.

After Colt McCoy comes off the board sometime in the second (he'll likely be the 4th QB taken), then I think we won't see more than a dozen other guys come off the board overall, and maybe only three or four before the last two rounds (probably Skelton, Brown, LeFevour, and Crompton--just as a guess).

That means that guys like Kafka, Armanti Edwards (who I think the Cards should take in the sixth, seventh, or make a priority FA), maybe Chris Turner (Maryland), or Joe Webb (UAB) will be available late or undrafted.

The day of the mid-round quarterback is over--at least for now. Does John David Booty (5th round, 2008) even still have a job in the NFL? How did drafting Brian Brohm in the 2nd work out for Green Bay? Second-round picks John Beck and Drew Stanton are competing for roster spots, not starting jobs, as they enter their third year. In 2005, third- or fourth-round picks were spent on guys like Andrew Walter, David Greene, and Stefan LeFors. LeFors doesn't even have a page on NFL.com. David Greene and Walter are both out of the NFL.

Lefors plays for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers (CFL)

 

[Cardiac]

This is where I am. There were only 12 QBs drafted last season: three in the first round and five in the 6th or 7th round. Thirteen were drafted in 2008: two in the first round, eight in the last three rounds(!).

I think that past history has shown that if you're not worming your way into the second round as a quarterback, you're going to have a bit of a wait--like 15 hours' wait.

After Colt McCoy comes off the board sometime in the second (he'll likely be the 4th QB taken), then I think we won't see more than a dozen other guys come off the board overall, and maybe only three or four before the last two rounds (probably Skelton, Brown, LeFevour, and Crompton--just as a guess).

That means that guys like Kafka, Armanti Edwards (who I think the Cards should take in the sixth, seventh, or make a priority FA), maybe Chris Turner (Maryland), or Joe Webb (UAB) will be available late or undrafted.

The day of the mid-round quarterback is over--at least for now. Does John David Booty (5th round, 2008) even still have a job in the NFL? How did drafting Brian Brohm in the 2nd work out for Green Bay? Second-round picks John Beck and Drew Stanton are competing for roster spots, not starting jobs, as they enter their third year. In 2005, third- or fourth-round picks were spent on guys like Andrew Walter, David Greene, and Stefan LeFors. LeFors doesn't even have a page on NFL.com. David Greene and Walter are both out of the NFL.

As always K9, you come with the facts and stats to support your point of view and in this case mine as well.

Since we have to upgrade the D in a year that is very deep in that area then why anyone wants to take a flyer on a QB in a pitifully weak QB class is a bit confusing to me. I would add that TE is deep this year and an upgrade at that position wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[DoTheDew]

As always K9, you come with the facts and stats to support your point of view and in this case mine as well.

Since we have to upgrade the D in a year that is very deep in that area then why anyone wants to take a flyer on a QB in a pitifully weak QB class is a bit confusing to me. I would add that TE is deep this year and an upgrade at that position wouldn't be a bad thing.

Because some people base their views on pure emotion with no reason to it. In other words, "I hate ML so I want us to draft a QB early," is what those people are thinking.

 

[Buckybird]

Since we have to upgrade the D in a year that is very deep in that area then why anyone wants to take a flyer on a QB in a pitifully weak QB class is a bit confusing to me.

I think its foolish to think the Cards wont draft a QB prospect somewhere in this draft.

 

[Cardiac]

I think its foolish to think the Cards wont draft a QB prospect somewhere in this draft.

And I thinks it's foolish to hope some 3 thru 7th rd QB is gonna be worth spit, especially in this draft class.

 

[Zeno]

And I thinks it's foolish to hope some 3 thru 7th rd QB is gonna be worth spit, especially in this draft class.

I think with BSP being re-signed the chances of the Cards drafting a QB before round 6 become almost nil. Probably more than likely it'll be a undrafted guy signed.

 

[Buckybird]

And I thinks it's foolish to hope some 3 thru 7th rd QB is gonna be worth spit, especially in this draft class.

and you might be right...but there's a chance.

 

[Cardiac]

and you might be right...but there's a chance.

oh I agree there is a chance. My disclaimer is in Whis I trust.