Players Supported 49er A. Smith - Cards Players didn't do this for #7

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kerouac9

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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5684341

As Smith walked away from Singletary after their meeting escalated into a low-melodrama shouting match, tight end Vernon Davis steered the sixth-year quarterback right back toward the embattled head coach.

Davis wanted Smith to go and fight for his job. Davis wanted Smith, not Carr, on the field. He was one of several 49ers offensive players who literally wanted Singletary overruled in real time, during the game.

And whatever Singletary's own motivations -- he said afterward that he was challenging Smith to see how he would respond -- it was pure, enlightened self-interest that prompted his top receiver's actions.

"I wanted Alex to stay in the game because I believe in Alex," Davis said. "He has a lot of pressure riding on his back. And I'm for him."

Added running back Frank Gore: "I didn't want David to come in. I wanted Alex to stick it out. He's got all the tools. You saw what he did when he came back in the game. That's all you want from a player."

There are ways in which Alex Smith's situation is quite different, but I think that if #7 had received this kind of support from his teammates, he'd have been the starter. It might also be that our players simply have more faith in Whis than these guys have in Singletary.
 

Russ Smith

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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5684341



There are ways in which Alex Smith's situation is quite different, but I think that if #7 had received this kind of support from his teammates, he'd have been the starter. It might also be that our players simply have more faith in Whis than these guys have in Singletary.

It could be both but I think it's pretty clear that it says many of the players didn't believe in Matt and that's why they didn't speak up for him. It may also have to do with their confidence in Whiz but I just get the impression it was more about Matt.

With Singletary I just don't buy his excuse, he says he was challenging Smith to see how he responded. If true, he's one hell of an actor because it sure looked to me when he was in Alex's face screaming at him and finger pointing, that he'd lost his cool and was furious with him. You'd have to be a REALLY good actor to do that when you're not really mad you're just challenging the player to see how he responds.
 

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With Singletary I just don't buy his excuse, he says he was challenging Smith to see how he responded. If true, he's one hell of an actor because it sure looked to me when he was in Alex's face screaming at him and finger pointing, that he'd lost his cool and was furious with him. You'd have to be a REALLY good actor to do that when you're not really mad you're just challenging the player to see how he responds.

I agree, Russ. That "I was challenging Alex" explanation is just damage control. Someone obviously told Carr he was going in, or he wouldn't have put his helmet on and walked onto the field.

Do the 49ers expect us to believe that Carr did that on his own?
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Watch the Cards receivers next time Derek Anderson warms up :D.
 

desertdawg

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THESMEL

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OK I'll go there

Matt leinart is a much better NFL QB than Alex Smith will ever be, as evidenced by his rookie season and records, beating out KW in 06. 07 and losing narrowly in 2008 to an offense catering to KW's skill sets.

but my comparison starts there. The players can't go to Whiz first like he wants, Matt knew his AZ was on the line when he tried to lead this team this preseason and ended up going to the media. The Bean proved that again recently. Whiz neutered, abused and then cut Matt out the side of his mouth while He said He has a great affection for Matt leinart.

Just saying, Q, Rolle, Dansby didn't want to take it anymore, Or take a risk of being publically humilated like the DeuceMeister! Gambos, Was DA a mistake question and Whiz's first emotional reponswe comepared to his normal calculated response bugs me. I have stayed true to my own opinion and evaluation against great pressure.

There is something very wrong with this team after Matt left, same problems while Matt was her and they blamed Matty. Whiz and the 4 horseman, silent horseman called coordinators need to accept some responsibilty, Whiz wants too, evidenced by his response to Gambo, That needs to happen soon or will remain in front of the cards rather than heading to the rear view.

Whiz got the new all powerful contract, and has blown it and Graves aint strong enough to supervise Whiz nor Denny if you go back that far with me. whiz gots it in him to adapt, to repond to overcome adversity, to become the solution rather than the problem. I can feel it in my fanatic bones.

Whiz is the man , the decider - rather He wants rainbows or monkeys flying out our AZ. It will be humbling but apoligys are appropriate to many, starting with AZ fans, Deuce, Lyle, Breaston, Patrick and eventually Matty. In Whiz they fear unpredictability not trust the 4 Cardinal virtues that I talked about consistantly, while others say they don't understand me,

Whiz put color too it, He overthought himself, but it is savable we 5 more years of whiz, hope he starts taking responsibility soon.
If He wants love, give love
If He wants respect, give respect
If He wants resentment , keep on giving resentment, it will come back 10 fold!

he gets what He gives, and so do we!


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5684341



There are ways in which Alex Smith's situation is quite different, but I think that if #7 had received this kind of support from his teammates, he'd have been the starter. It might also be that our players simply have more faith in Whis than these guys have in Singletary.
 

Mulli

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Matt leinart is a much better NFL QB than Alex Smith will ever be, as evidenced by his rookie season and records, beating out KW in 06. 07 and losing narrowly in 2008 to an offense catering to KW's skill sets.

but my comparison starts there. The players can't go to Whiz first like he wants, Matt knew his AZ was on the line when he tried to lead this team this preseason and ended up going to the media. The Bean proved that again recently. Whiz neutered, abused and then cut Matt out the side of his mouth while He said He has a great affection for Matt leinart.

Just saying, Q, Rolle, Dansby didn't want to take it anymore, Or take a risk of being publically humilated like the DeuceMeister! Gambos, Was DA a mistake question and Whiz's first emotional reponswe comepared to his normal calculated response bugs me. I have stayed true to my own opinion and evaluation against great pressure.

There is something very wrong with this team after Matt left, same problems while Matt was her and they blamed Matty. Whiz and the 4 horseman, silent horseman called coordinators need to accept some responsibilty, Whiz wants too, evidenced by his response to Gambo, That needs to happen soon or will remain in front of the cards rather than heading to the rear view.

Whiz got the new all powerful contract, and has blown it and Graves aint strong enough to supervise Whiz nor Denny if you go back that far with me. whiz gots it in him to adapt, to repond to overcome adversity, to become the solution rather than the problem. I can feel it in my fanatic bones.

Whiz is the man , the decider - rather He wants rainbows or monkeys flying out our AZ. It will be humbling but apoligys are appropriate to many, starting with AZ fans, Deuce, Lyle, Breaston, Patrick and eventually Matty. In Whiz they fear unpredictability not trust the 4 Cardinal virtues that I talked about consistantly, while others say they don't understand me,

Whiz put color too it, He overthought himself, but it is savable we 5 more years of whiz, hope he starts taking responsibility soon.
If He wants love, give love
If He wants respect, give respect
If He wants resentment , keep on giving resentment, it will come back 10 fold!

he gets what He gives, and so do we!
What in the world are you talking about?
 

THESMEL

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well if you can't understand it

maybe you should just pass this one by, I'm tired of re-explaining myself. everybody gets mad cause I repeat the same thing for years, say i'm complaining, or inciting. i'm not it's english it really is!

What in the world are you talking about?
 
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BigRedRage

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misleading title, this has nothing to do with us. Just because the players didnt publicly say I love Matt doesnt mean they didnt, we only know what we are told.
 

Mulli

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misleading title, this has nothing to do with us. Just because the players didnt publicly say I love Matt doesnt mean they didnt, we only know what we are told.
The Cards' players didn't seem to show the same kind of support Leinart on the sidelines that VD did for Smith.
 

DemsMyBoys

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The Cards' players didn't seem to show the same kind of support Leinart on the sidelines that VD did for Smith.

There is a reason Fitz is on Twitter urging people to vote for Max "Learn to Slide" (Fitz's nickname for him BTW) Hall for Pepsi's rookie of the week.
 
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kerouac9

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Matt leinart is a much better NFL QB than Alex Smith will ever be, as evidenced by his rookie season and records, beating out KW in 06. 07 and losing narrowly in 2008 to an offense catering to KW's skill sets.

but my comparison starts there. The players can't go to Whiz first like he wants, Matt knew his AZ was on the line when he tried to lead this team this preseason and ended up going to the media. The Bean proved that again recently. Whiz neutered, abused and then cut Matt out the side of his mouth while He said He has a great affection for Matt leinart.

Just saying, Q, Rolle, Dansby didn't want to take it anymore, Or take a risk of being publically humilated like the DeuceMeister! Gambos, Was DA a mistake question and Whiz's first emotional reponswe comepared to his normal calculated response bugs me. I have stayed true to my own opinion and evaluation against great pressure.

There is something very wrong with this team after Matt left, same problems while Matt was her and they blamed Matty. Whiz and the 4 horseman, silent horseman called coordinators need to accept some responsibilty, Whiz wants too, evidenced by his response to Gambo, That needs to happen soon or will remain in front of the cards rather than heading to the rear view.

Whiz got the new all powerful contract, and has blown it and Graves aint strong enough to supervise Whiz nor Denny if you go back that far with me. whiz gots it in him to adapt, to repond to overcome adversity, to become the solution rather than the problem. I can feel it in my fanatic bones.

Whiz is the man , the decider - rather He wants rainbows or monkeys flying out our AZ. It will be humbling but apoligys are appropriate to many, starting with AZ fans, Deuce, Lyle, Breaston, Patrick and eventually Matty. In Whiz they fear unpredictability not trust the 4 Cardinal virtues that I talked about consistantly, while others say they don't understand me,

Whiz put color too it, He overthought himself, but it is savable we 5 more years of whiz, hope he starts taking responsibility soon.
If He wants love, give love
If He wants respect, give respect
If He wants resentment , keep on giving resentment, it will come back 10 fold!

he gets what He gives, and so do we!

I don't have anyone on my ignore list, but welcome to it, TheSmell. I don't know what you're trying to do with your writing style, but it's unreadable. And I read Freshman English essays for a living.
 

THESMEL

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coach

Our Coach would cut or kill their career if they did! thats my point! not theory its fact, He did it to matt, Q, and treated Deuce like the anti christ cmpared to say the San Diego Charger holdouts.

Deuce waited without a contract and signed, worked hard and earned his starting job back the hard way. Deuce and his agent also kept their mouths shut while Whiz lead the charge to kick him in the groin, every other day.

Breaston, Lyle and Patrick signed their RFA contracts, screwed out of their earned after a SB/playoffs 2nd contract payday. CBA throttled them but Whiz got a new top 5 paid 5 year contract and alot of team control along with it.

He stepped right on their throats and killed what he couldn't crap on. He signed 33+ year old past their prime ex steelers for huge money and left our drafted cards talent just hangin out there for the least effort he could.

He's sitting at the big coach/GM table and needs to get his mind right.

The Cards' players didn't seem to show the same kind of support Leinart on the sidelines that VD did for Smith.
 

40yearfan

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I don't have anyone on my ignore list, but welcome to it, TheSmell. I don't know what you're trying to do with your writing style, but it's unreadable. And I read Freshman English essays for a living.

Just what the heck did you do to receive such a punishment?:D
 

Catfish

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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5684341



There are ways in which Alex Smith's situation is quite different, but I think that if #7 had received this kind of support from his teammates, he'd have been the starter. It might also be that our players simply have more faith in Whis than these guys have in Singletary.

K-9-----I totally agree that Singletary had no intention of testing Smith to see how he would respond. He fully intended to bench him and put Carr into the game. I believe too, that it was the players who made the difference with Singletary. But I don't necessarily believe that if our guys would have gone to Whiz that it would have made a difference with Matt.
Singletary and Whiz are polar opposites.

Singletary is not a cold, calculating, tangibles type of person. He is hot and firey, and emotional to the hilt. He operates on intangibles and feelings, not on numbers and measurables He, at least got the message from his players that they did not want Carr in the game-----that they felt that Smith was their best choice to win. They were probably right, because the very next series, Smith lit up the stadium with lazer sharp passes on the money for a score. It was not enough though.

With Whiz, things are totally different. I have worked for guys like him, and they can be terribly perplexing to work for. They have no feeling for the circumstance, but instead they gravitate the measurables like height, weight, arm strength, condidioning, stats, numbers, anything they can put their hands on or measure.

Guys like Whiz seldom get too high or too low at any point, because they are always trying to analyze what their next move should be. They are NOT feelings kind of people, and therefore have no feeling for the circumstance, (or for the game at hand), for that matter.

They can preach all they want that they have an open door policy. It is open, but using it can be a terrible, even unreconcilable mistake. You can go in to talk with him, sometimes even interrupt what he is doing. He will listen to you, but he may not hear you. He might just consider that by your very presence in his office, you are in disagreement with what he wants to do, and will from then on, consider you to NOT to be a trusted ally, AND may even consider you a liability from that point on.

These type personalities can make tremendous leaders, but they can also alienate many around them, because they have no feel for things. To them things are black or they are white, and any questioning of their plan, may be grounds for removal from their trusted circle.

I believe that is exactly what happened to Matt here. He went from being Whiz's choice for QB to someone looking in from the outside, (without really ever getting a shot to prove his mettle).

People may make a lot of fun out of my taking Whiz's engineering degree to heart when he is considering ideas. Say what you want about that, but those who have those traits that I described like Whiz, make wonderful engineers. They are able to disregard all the fluff and feely stuff when they analyze something. This allows them to fix things quickly, (at least things that can be fixed with measurables). They quite often fall short however where emotions and feelings are concerned, and lets not forget, football is a game of emotions and a game of will. Sometimes the best solution to a problem is not one that can be measured or counted, or weighed. Sometimes it comes down to heart and will and gut feeling. This is where guys like Whiz just don't always truly understand what the obvious solution is.
 

Mulli

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Catfish, those who coach mainly on gut feelings and emotion rarely, if ever, succeed for very long in the NFL. Gut feelings about QB's like Leinart are what get coaches fired.

That being said, I am thinking that as Matt's head coach for a few years, Whiz had far more tangible evidence regarding Leinart as a player than any of us on a message board.
 

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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5684341



There are ways in which Alex Smith's situation is quite different, but I think that if #7 had received this kind of support from his teammates, he'd have been the starter. It might also be that our players simply have more faith in Whis than these guys have in Singletary.

Disagree completely and I was once a ML supporter. It isn't on his teammates to prop him up. Matt's failings were his own.

Let me put it another way. I work in an office with a guy who could reasonably be described as a slug. His output is horrible. His interpersonal skills are embarrassing. He is a drain on productivity. Every day I wonder why management keeps him around. All I know is that if he is around me, he is a distraction and my productivity suffers as well.

So I tried to help him get better, coached him up, and yet he made no effort to improve his performace. His work still sucks, but now I am working twice as hard to accomodate him. Eventually, I had enough and began to ignore him, marginalize him, and not let him take me down with him. When the axe finally does come down on this idiot, will it be in any way my fault? Hell no!
 

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I don't have anyone on my ignore list, but welcome to it, TheSmell. I don't know what you're trying to do with your writing style, but it's unreadable. And I read Freshman English essays for a living.

Ha! It's not the style as much as the content that I take umbrage with. At this point I read it as comedy, and it has minor entertainment value.
 

AzStevenCal

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maybe you should just pass this one by, I'm tired of re-explaining myself. everybody gets mad cause I repeat the same thing for years, say i'm complaining, or inciting. i'm not it's english it really is!

I used to teach English as a second language. Some of that looks familiar.

Steve
 

Russ Smith

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With Whiz, things are totally different. I have worked for guys like him, and they can be terribly perplexing to work for. They have no feeling for the circumstance, but instead they gravitate the measurables like height, weight, arm strength, condidioning, stats, numbers, anything they can put their hands on or measure.

I agree with some of what you said but this part makes no sense to me. Essentially Whiz has now replaced the 6'5" 230 pound Matt with a guy 5 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter, whose arm strength is not his best asset. If Whiz were fixated on measurables he'd be playing DA still, and signing Jamarcus Russell.

Whiz fixates on production, and he over a course of time came to the conclusion that Max Hall's production exceeded Matt Leinart's IMHO.

As for Smith, don't let the end of that game fool you, it's not the first time Smith has lit up a team playing a soft zone with a lead only to disappoint the next time he's in a close game.
 

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Catfish, those who coach mainly on gut feelings and emotion rarely, if ever, succeed for very long in the NFL. Gut feelings about QB's like Leinart are what get coaches fired.

That being said, I am thinking that as Matt's head coach for a few years, Whiz had far more tangible evidence regarding Leinart as a player than any of us on a message board.

Wouldn't argue that at all Mulli. I do believe, however, that neither type make the VERY BEST coaches. Those need to have some of each set of traits, so they can call on either set as the need arises. I am more than happy with what Whiz brings to the table. He has totally changed the culture of this franchise, (hopefully for good).
 
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