Players you'd trade three 1st round picks for. . .

[kerouac9]

Andrew Luck
Aaron Rodgers (though he has yet to win a big game and is a prick)

Only non QB to be considered, JJ Watt. Reason being is age (25) and ability to rush the passer from the 3-4 DE position which is a very unique trait. Watt and Campbell as 3-4 DEs for the next 5 years is pretty enticing.

Yeah. Watt is the only guy active now that I'd consider making that deal for. He affects every single play, from the pre-snap until after the quarterback releases the ball.

Still, because he's not a quarterback, that's a ransom to give up. If a team called Houston and offered 3 first round picks for Watt, I think they'd consider it for a while. Not sure if they'd say yes.

 

[cardpa]

I don't there is any player in the NFL worth 3-1st round picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't there is any player in the NFL worth 3-1st round picks.

I'd gladly trade three Patriots 1st round picks for a young, dominant player such as Watt. Trading three Raiders picks might be a different story but it's difficult to claim that Watt isn't worth three picks when you know that a fair number of the lower 1st rounders fail to make an impact.

Steve

 

[Jetstream Green]

Yeah. Watt is the only guy active now that I'd consider making that deal for. He affects every single play, from the pre-snap until after the quarterback releases the ball.

Still, because he's not a quarterback, that's a ransom to give up. If a team called Houston and offered 3 first round picks for Watt, I think they'd consider it for a while. Not sure if they'd say yes.

I would not say I would do it and it is only watching him in preseason... but Clowney sure would make me consider it for a moment

 

[DoTheDew]

For those saying luck why wouldn't you choose Wilson? He has a ring and is probably the most efficient qb in the league

Wilson hasn't really had to carry a team. He's had about the most talent around him of any QB in the league. He was sacked a ton last year.

I think he's a quality QB, but it's hard to say at this point how much of his production is a result of skill and how much is a result of what he's surrounded by. Contrast that with Luck who took over the worst team in the league and instantly turned them into an 11-5 team. Luck has proven that he can make a bad team good. All Wilson has proven is that he can be productive on a good team.

 

[kerouac9]

For those saying luck why wouldn't you choose Wilson? He has a ring and is probably the most efficient qb in the league

Wilson hasn't really had to carry a team. He's had about the most talent around him of any QB in the league. He was sacked a ton last year.

I think he's a quality QB, but it's hard to say at this point how much of his production is a result of skill and how much is a result of what he's surrounded by. Contrast that with Luck who took over the worst team in the league and instantly turned them into an 11-5 team. Luck has proven that he can make a bad team good. All Wilson has proven is that he can be productive on a good team.

Because I think you can get "efficiency" at a lower price than 3 first-round picks. DTD is right above, and while Wilson is going to be compared to Luck for their respective careers, I think you can look at the broader picture.

Wilson was fortunate to land with a franchise with pretty much everything in place, and become a discounted starter for the first three years of his career. Because Wilson was a third-round pick, he came into a situation where his team had solid first- and second-round picks ahead of him (in this case, Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner). Seattle was able to leverage Wilson's low salary to pay guys like Percy Harvin.

I like Wilson more than a lot of people on this board, but I'm not paying 3 first-round picks for a guy unless he's able to do two special things.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Wilson hasn't really had to carry a team. He's had about the most talent around him of any QB in the league. He was sacked a ton last year.

I think he's a quality QB, but it's hard to say at this point how much of his production is a result of skill and how much is a result of what he's surrounded by. Contrast that with Luck who took over the worst team in the league and instantly turned them into an 11-5 team. Luck has proven that he can make a bad team good. All Wilson has proven is that he can be productive on a good team.

I think we have a good team, so Wilson would still be as effective (whatever works, works) and him getting sacked is better than him throwing interceptions in panic mode... but we would then have to give him the big contract and this trade would not even have to happen if the Cardinals followed my advise and have drafted him lol

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah. Watt is the only guy active now that I'd consider making that deal for. He affects every single play, from the pre-snap until after the quarterback releases the ball.

Still, because he's not a quarterback, that's a ransom to give up. If a team called Houston and offered 3 first round picks for Watt, I think they'd consider it for a while. Not sure if they'd say yes.

My rationale for not taking Watt on it would be fear of a PED suspension.

That's why I'd be more likely to look at someone like Luck or Rodgers who are great players that are far less likely to ever test positive.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

My rationale for not taking Watt on it would be fear of a PED suspension.

That's why I'd be more likely to look at someone like Luck or Rodgers who are great players that are far less likely to ever test positive.

Ah the eternal optimist.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ah the eternal optimist.

well you just have to play the numbers.

Probably 50% of the linemen in the NFL use PED's or have and he's a linemen strike 1.

Then this is a kid who's gained over 60 pounds since he left HS, a kid who had to transfer out of Central Michigan because he couldn't get on the field(as a TE) strike 2.

Then his workout buddy in the NFL is... Brian Cushing... that's about as close to strike 3 as I can get without testing.

He may in fact be the rare guy who fits all the categories and yet is clean, but I'd say it's probably 20/80 clean or using PED's with him based on those 3 things alone.

If you asked me to name 5 guys I'm fairly certain used PED's to get to the NFL Clay Matthews would be #1 and Watt would probably be #2.

Terrific player and again the whole NFL does it, but in a thread about trading 3 #1 picks for one player those are the types of things I'd have to consider.

 

[Ronin]

I'd lose my mind if the 49ers gave up 3 first round draft picks for any player....and not in a good way.

 

[AzStevenCal]

My rationale for not taking Watt on it would be fear of a PED suspension.

That's why I'd be more likely to look at someone like Luck or Rodgers who are great players that are far less likely to ever test positive.

That certainly crossed my mind but I'm not that confident that this risk isn't shared by the vast majority of players.

Steve

 

[Jetstream Green]

well you just have to play the numbers.

Probably 50% of the linemen in the NFL use PED's or have and he's a linemen strike 1.

Then this is a kid who's gained over 60 pounds since he left HS, a kid who had to transfer out of Central Michigan because he couldn't get on the field(as a TE) strike 2.

Then his workout buddy in the NFL is... Brian Cushing... that's about as close to strike 3 as I can get without testing.

He may in fact be the rare guy who fits all the categories and yet is clean, but I'd say it's probably 20/80 clean or using PED's with him based on those 3 things alone.

If you asked me to name 5 guys I'm fairly certain used PED's to get to the NFL Clay Matthews would be #1 and Watt would probably be #2.

Terrific player and again the whole NFL does it, but in a thread about trading 3 #1 picks for one player those are the types of things I'd have to consider.

I have a question for you Russ and this goes for K9 as well since I believe he has a relative in the medical field. My brother is a bone cancer surgeon and he believes all these ACL tears are a direct result of players taking substances related to steroids which heighten ones physical ability but weakens the ability for a component as the ACL to accommodate an unnatural enhancement of performance. He does not state it as fact but him other doctors can't help but shake their heads at all these ACL injuries and think about it. He said there are substances out there which can still be cloaked by the NFL screening process

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think Watt, Rodgers, and Luck are about the only ones, with Clowney probably reaching that stratosphere in a few years.

Rodgers not winning the big game (Chopper)? He's won a Super Bowl with a team that is largely only solid, not great. I think if you put Russell Wilson on the Packers they are a fringe playoff team. Put Rodgers on the Seahawks and they are a dynasty.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Aaron Rodgers (though he has yet to win a big game and is a prick)

um... Chopper, Rodgers won three straight road playoffs games and a Super Bowl. Doesn't really get bigger then that, does it?

 

[Russ Smith]

I have a question for you Russ and this goes for K9 as well since I believe he has a relative in the medical field. My brother is a bone cancer surgeon and he believes all these ACL tears are a direct result of players taking substances related to steroids which heighten ones physical ability but weakens the ability for a component as the ACL to accommodate an unnatural enhancement of performance. He does not state it as fact but him other doctors can't help but shake their heads at all these ACL injuries and think about it. He said there are substances out there which can still be cloaked by the NFL screening process

I have no idea other than the reason steroid users tend to get hurt more often is they're too big and strong for their "frame" so they get lots of pulled muscles etc. In baseball the telltale was the hamate bone in the hand, nobody ever heard of a hamate bone until the steroid era in baseball when several guys suddenly had it. They were "too big" for their frames so they put too much stress on their body and the hamate bone was apparently the weak link.

So many ACL injuries are completely untouched I suspect there's some element of guys simply being bigger or stronger than their body can handle.

ACL's are weird, in womens basketball and soccer ACL's are so common it's frightening. I went to HS with someone who has 2 kids who played college basketball. The boy played at San Jose State 4 years and now plays overseas, never had an injury in his life. The girl(same father) played at Idaho I think and in 5 years of college had 3 ACL surgeries and another non ACL surgery on the same knee. She's been told she'll need knee replacement by the time she's 40. Same parents, they look alike etc but for whatever reason physiologically young women are far more likely than young men to tear an ACL.

I think in the days of artificial turf being common that had a lot to do with ACL's but now I have no idea if that's a factor. I suspect it may be overuse now too guys train year round now they didn't used to.

 

[Russ Smith]

That certainly crossed my mind but I'm not that confident that this risk isn't shared by the vast majority of players.

Steve

It is but PED use IMO is more common among linemen than QB's. I'm sure there are QB's that use them just less on a percentage basis IMO.

 

[TRW]

At current age/contract situation, probably only Luck, Watt and maybe Aaron Rodgers. Nobody else at their current age/contract. Maybe not Watt at his new contract now either.

 

[kerouac9]

I have a question for you Russ and this goes for K9 as well since I believe he has a relative in the medical field. My brother is a bone cancer surgeon and he believes all these ACL tears are a direct result of players taking substances related to steroids which heighten ones physical ability but weakens the ability for a component as the ACL to accommodate an unnatural enhancement of performance. He does not state it as fact but him other doctors can't help but shake their heads at all these ACL injuries and think about it. He said there are substances out there which can still be cloaked by the NFL screening process

I don't have a relative in the medical field (I think you're thinking of Cheesy), but I don't think for sure that there's a greater number of ACL injuries today than there were 10 or 15 years ago. I'd be interested in seeing some kind of proof.

Russ thinks that everyone is on PEDs. I think that it's probably much more common in lower levels when (1) it's not tested for and (2) there's greater abilities for enhanced athletes to break out and participate.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't have a relative in the medical field (I think you're thinking of Cheesy), but I don't think for sure that there's a greater number of ACL injuries today than there were 10 or 15 years ago. I'd be interested in seeing some kind of proof.

Russ thinks that everyone is on PEDs. I think that it's probably much more common in lower levels when (1) it's not tested for and (2) there's greater abilities for enhanced athletes to break out and participate.

The amount of HGH in High Schools would shock people. Becoming the new steroids.

 

[Chopper0080]

um... Chopper, Rodgers won three straight road playoffs games and a Super Bowl. Doesn't really get bigger then that, does it?

I know, but the Steelers were crap that year...he is just such a dick. Jay Cutler needs Rodger's press guy as Rodgers is more of an ass than Cutler is.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't have a relative in the medical field (I think you're thinking of Cheesy), but I don't think for sure that there's a greater number of ACL injuries today than there were 10 or 15 years ago. I'd be interested in seeing some kind of proof.

Russ thinks that everyone is on PEDs. I think that it's probably much more common in lower levels when (1) it's not tested for and (2) there's greater abilities for enhanced athletes to break out and participate.

I think probably half the league has done them at some time and I think at least half of linemen do them in some form or another.

They do test for them in college just incredibly ineffectively

http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddi...use-is-rampant-and-little-is-done-to-stop-it/

Again it's numbers, in 1979 the heaviest player drafted weight 272 pounds, in 2013 there wasn't a single offensive lineman drafted who weighed less than 298, that's from Gil Brandt. When he was asked why he responded "PED's". He said diet and nutrition is part of it but a small percentage, the rest is PED's.

I am sure some guys use them to get drafted and then try and stop the problem is most that do that "shrink". Remember Cushing getting caught and the next year his buddy and workout partner showed up to Packers camp 15 pounds lighter and had his worst NFL season? Did anybody really think that was a coincidence?

Last year an unnamed player in the NFL came forward and said HGH is rampant in the NFL he thinks 10-15 guys on every team are using it regularly.
Arian Foster said he saw guys cheat in college and thinks it's common in the NFL. He's a bit of an outlier he says he never used creatine or even protein drinks, he's a Vegan believe it or not.

I think PED's in the NFL are like pot in the NBA or taking cash in NCAA football and basketball, they don't really want to catch everyone that's doing it because if they did, and suspended them, they couldn't play the games.

 

[GatorAZ]

I know...he is just such a dick. Jay Cutler needs Rodger's press guy as Rodgers is more of an ass than Cutler is.

Pro athletes have egos? Not buying it...

I find it hard to believe there's a bigger ass than Cutler. Guy is a puss who verbally assaults his lineman on TV and has the worst body language imaginable.

 

[kerouac9]

I think probably half the league has done them at some time and I think at least half of linemen do them in some form or another.

They do test for them in college just incredibly ineffectively

http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddi...use-is-rampant-and-little-is-done-to-stop-it/

Again it's numbers, in 1979 the heaviest player drafted weight 272 pounds, in 2013 there wasn't a single offensive lineman drafted who weighed less than 298, that's from Gil Brandt. When he was asked why he responded "PED's". He said diet and nutrition is part of it but a small percentage, the rest is PED's.

I am sure some guys use them to get drafted and then try and stop the problem is most that do that "shrink". Remember Cushing getting caught and the next year his buddy and workout partner showed up to Packers camp 15 pounds lighter and had his worst NFL season? Did anybody really think that was a coincidence?

Last year an unnamed player in the NFL came forward and said HGH is rampant in the NFL he thinks 10-15 guys on every team are using it regularly.
Arian Foster said he saw guys cheat in college and thinks it's common in the NFL. He's a bit of an outlier he says he never used creatine or even protein drinks, he's a Vegan believe it or not.

I think PED's in the NFL are like pot in the NBA or taking cash in NCAA football and basketball, they don't really want to catch everyone that's doing it because if they did, and suspended them, they couldn't play the games.

So you're saying that in 35 years America's top athletes have gotten bigger and heavier? I'm shocked.

I think guys cheat in college. There is a lot of benefit to the untalented student-athlete to get bigger by any means necessary, and not everyone is meant to be that big.

But at the NFL level I think there's much, much greater efficiency in identifying the Michael Oher types in the wild, and there are more nutritionists and supplement dealers who are able to "naturally" help these kids put on weight.

I just think that when you narrow the field from thousands and thousands of student athletes every year down to the 800 or so NFL rookies, you end up screening out the vast majority of roided-up guys and get a lot of elite physical specimens who have crazy speed to strength profiles.

 

[Chopper0080]

Pro athletes have egos? Not buying it...

I find it hard to believe there's a bigger ass than Cutler. Guy is a puss who verbally assaults his lineman on TV and has the worst body language imaginable.

Cutler has never had his teammates rip him like Rodgers has. Rodgers routinely rips into his guys if you watch. He also wanders off when things are going poorly. I don't know why Rodgers is given a pass, but some guys just are. Two years I asked an NFL offensive tackle who the hardest guy was to block, and he said Julius Peppers, but only in primetime. Also said Clay Matthews is overhyped. Yells "play is away" and "I'm out" on run plays away from him.