Point Center

[George O'Brien]

After all of our discussions about getting another point guard for the Suns, Amare tells people he's going to become a "point center". What is even stranger is that I actually believe him.

Point guards have a number of responsibilities: bring the ball up the court, triggering the offense, and providing a late offense scoring option. Nash is great at all three, but it is becoming obvious that opponents are becoming focused on keeping him from bringing the ball up the court quickly.

In all three series, the opponent would pout a quick, defense oriented point guard on Nash to harrass him up the court. (Watson with the Grizzlies, Armstrong with the Mavs, and Parker with the Spurs). While this generated a few turnovers, the real purposes were to

1. Slow down the Suns' after made basket offense
2. Take time off the clock to give the Suns less time to run their offense
3. Wear out Nash by making him work so hard just to get the ball into the half court offense.

I think we can expect that every team will attempt to use the same strategy. The only real option is to have someone else bring the ball up court. Sometimes the Suns would have either JJ or JJax bring the ball, up the court, but opponets would press them as well.

D'Antoni has been seeing the same thing, which is why he's contemplating a radical solution. Not merely a point forward, whose job is just to get the ball over the time line before getting the ball back to the PG, but a "point center" that would create defensive problems every time he brings the ball up.

It is no big deal to have a forward press against an SG or SF bringing the ball up the court. But how do you press a point center like Amare? Put Duncan out in the open court against Amare and Amare blow by him every time. Put a press guard on Amare and the defense faces a mismatch everytime the ball is brought into the half court.

The "play" would be simple. Amare brings the ball up the middle of the court. If a guard is defending, everyone spreads out into a four corner's offense. Amare just continues to the basket until someone comes over to help, at which point he passes to the open man cutting to the basket. If the opponent zones, then Amare hits a shooter in one of the corners and gets into position for a rebound.

If the opponent packs the paint and lets him bring the ball up unmolested, it means the Suns get the ball in play much faster than against the press. Even more, he can simply stop and shoot unmolested from the elbow.

I suspect there is more to it that this, but it looks promising.

 

[JPlay]

I think he means he will improve his ball-handling skills and passing out of the double-team as well as be able to shoot the long ball.

I have a feeling Amare has been working on his range and feels that he can make a shot from anywhere on the floor.

 

[Goldfield]

This is a joke right?

 

[Biclops]

The idea of point center is intriguing... I mean this could be a birth of a whole new position

I like the idea of Amare becoming a "point" center but for that to work he has to work on his passing and dribbling

Too many times I saw Amare in the playoff trying to create a scoring opporutnity with his dribbling just to lose it out of bounds or slapped out of his possession. For this to work, he has to work on his dribbling techinque this summer (I think he has good dribbling considering he is a pf or center but to become a point center i think he has to improve it better)

Another area he must improve to become point center is obviously passing. I think he got a little better toward the end of the season but he has to notice the double team and pass it to the open man. I know Tim Duncan had a hard time doing this when he first came to the league but now he is a great passer out of the double team. Being able to pass out will make Amare twice as more dangerous.

One thing that kind of worries me is that Amare can score so easily on any opponent that i hope he does not solely rely on scoring and forget about passing

Hopefully Amare can revolutionize the center position. If this does work successfully, D'Antoni should win COY again

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

george, it's a nice attempt at conjuring something up, but you've completely missed the point. no way in HELL is amare bringing the ball up the court. NO - WAY - IN - HELL. unless it's a fastbreak opp like barkley used to generate, and even then i think it's years before amare's ballhandling skills are adequate enough for that.

rather, i think point center is meant to bring amare out into the high post and have him roam the perimeter a bit more, thereby pulling the center out more and providing more passing lanes for amare to exploit. at least, that's what all his quotes suggest.

 

[Kolo]

rather, i think point center is meant to bring amare out into the high post and have him roam the perimeter a bit more, thereby pulling the center out more and providing more passing lanes for amare to exploit. at least, that's what all his quotes suggest.

That's what I thought too--instead of running mainly pick-and-rolls with Amare picking Nash's defender from the high post, once they're in a half court set Amare'll get the ball about 18 feet out and the other 4 will run picks along the baseline, maybe have Marion pick Amare's defender and roll off him (so Amare's running the pick-and-roll), etc...

 

[Biclops]

Just out of curiousity does anyone know....

1. Who came up with the concept of Point Foward
2. When they came up with it
3. Who was one of the first player who considered a Point Foward (Larry bird?)

 

[Bada0Bing]

The first time I heard "point-forward" was in reference to Grant Hill and Scottie Pippen. Probably in the mid 90's.

 

[George O'Brien]

I first heard the term used by Don Nelson who introduced it with the Warriors back in the early 90's; however the approach was used when Larry Bird would bring the ball up. Nelson was always one of the biggest proponents of the notion.

At this point I'd say Amare is no where close to being able to perform this function. However, it does not appear to be an extraordinary reach to conclude he could learn. If anything, it would give Amare an incentive to really work on his ball handling. This is an area that could pay huge dividends as he becomes a distributor as well as the main offensive threat.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

After all of our discussions about getting another point guard for the Suns, Amare tells people he's going to become a "point center". What is even stranger is that I actually believe him.

Point guards have a number of responsibilities: bring the ball up the court, triggering the offense, and providing a late offense scoring option. Nash is great at all three, but it is becoming obvious that opponents are becoming focused on keeping him from bringing the ball up the court quickly.

In all three series, the opponent would pout a quick, defense oriented point guard on Nash to harrass him up the court. (Watson with the Grizzlies, Armstrong with the Mavs, and Parker with the Spurs). While this generated a few turnovers, the real purposes were to

1. Slow down the Suns' after made basket offense
2. Take time off the clock to give the Suns less time to run their offense
3. Wear out Nash by making him work so hard just to get the ball into the half court offense.

I think we can expect that every team will attempt to use the same strategy. The only real option is to have someone else bring the ball up court. Sometimes the Suns would have either JJ or JJax bring the ball, up the court, but opponets would press them as well.

D'Antoni has been seeing the same thing, which is why he's contemplating a radical solution. Not merely a point forward, whose job is just to get the ball over the time line before getting the ball back to the PG, but a "point center" that would create defensive problems every time he brings the ball up.

It is no big deal to have a forward press against an SG or SF bringing the ball up the court. But how do you press a point center like Amare? Put Duncan out in the open court against Amare and Amare blow by him every time. Put a press guard on Amare and the defense faces a mismatch everytime the ball is brought into the half court.

The "play" would be simple. Amare brings the ball up the middle of the court. If a guard is defending, everyone spreads out into a four corner's offense. Amare just continues to the basket until someone comes over to help, at which point he passes to the open man cutting to the basket. If the opponent zones, then Amare hits a shooter in one of the corners and gets into position for a rebound.

If the opponent packs the paint and lets him bring the ball up unmolested, it means the Suns get the ball in play much faster than against the press. Even more, he can simply stop and shoot unmolested from the elbow.

I suspect there is more to it that this, but it looks promising.

I think your right, I think you might see Amare bring the ball down the court a few times, But I think with Amare running point center, alot of offense will go through Amare, in the post. Amare will post get the ball, see if he is doubled and kick it to the open man. I think they are going to work alot on Amares passing game and make him a passing threat, much like he became a descent shooting threat this season from the top of the key.

 

[lancelet's cousin]

I was going to make a post of this nature. Glad George gets the heat for this.

When Amaré said he was going to become a point center I really think he means to develop PG skills.

Amaré has an insane amount of potential.
How hard would a person with his prodigious off-season work ethic not be able to develop PG skills within a few years? Isn't Barbose having to do the same thing? How many college spot-up shooters in this draft will get picked up knowing that they will have to make the switch to PG? How many high school players are recruited and then learn the PG position in college? And lastly, how many of all of those players have half of the desire and work ethic of Amaré?

I've thought all along that Amaré will become a playmaker. It's what he is going to have to do to be the best ever-his #1 goal in life. If he were being recruited by colleges, he could tell them, "I wanna play point or I'm gone"- they would teach him to play point.


I doubt anyone ever asked him to be a playmaker in any high school he attended. I don't know why anyone would doubt that he could even learn to pass and break down a defender of the dribble, much less bring the ball up court. I'm certain he can do all that on the playground already. Most non-centers can. They just don't develop their ball-handling skills enough for the NBA.

I'm pretty sure when Amaré says "point center", he's envisioning something very similar to the player George described.

 

[Errntknght]

George, you get a 10 for imagination but it isn't going to happen and it shouldn't happen. The last thing you want is Amare wasting energy bringing the ball up the floor. It would be a good for him to improve his dribbling as he gets stripped far too often in traffic, but he doesn't need to practice it by bringing the ball upcourt during games. Remember, we would like Amare to expend more energy on defense and rebounding so this idea would be counter productive.

What the Suns should do to relieve the backcourt pressure on Nash is to have everyone other than Amare (or Voskuhl, Hunter, McCarty etc) involved in moving it up by passing - JJ leading the way, naturally. The goal shouldn't be just to help Nash out but to get the ball upfloor even quicker than they did this past year. The team is fairly good at it already so just plan it out a little more and sharpen it up. The upside to this approach is that the defense stands to lose something by attempting to pressure Nash because if the Suns get it up speedily the defense is less set. Also when Barbosa or JJack is on the floor instead of Q or Shawn the passing advance should work better - and any plus our bench gets is good. It may even pay to bring Barbs in for Q whenever a team starts pressuring us.