Point guard speculation article - Russell hope

[Phrazbit]

The cap went from 63 mil. in 2014 to 109 mil. in 2019.

And Rubio went from being viewed as a franchise corner stone to a fringe starter.

If the cap now was what it was back then I think Rubio would be getting like 5 mil a season.

 

[hcsilla]

Okay, how much better is Bledsoe than Rubio?

 

[Phrazbit]

Okay, how much better is Bledsoe than Rubio?

Wow, I honestly don't see them on being even near the same tier. By virtually every measure outside of assists (and Rubio's assist stats are not what they used to be)... dramatically better.

Bledsoe is one of the best defenders in the league and his offensive efficiency is significantly higher than Rubio's, they're not comparable.

 

[Hoop Head]

Okay, how much better is Bledsoe than Rubio?

Nobody is saying Rubio is as good as Bledsoe but you think Rubio will be paid similar to what Bledsoe did get paid recently. Bledsoe signed an extension for 4 years & 70 million, you said Rubio will get more than what he did previously which was 4 years and $55 million. If he were to get a raise, like you believe, then that would pay him close to what Bledsoe is making now because of his extension. They're in the same ballpark.

Why even bring up Bledsoe again? You're jumping all over the place now for some reason. Quit trying to change the discussion, which was how much will Rubio get paid this summer. You believe he'll make more than he did in his last deal because the cap has risen. That won't happen because he hasn't grown as a player. No one gives a damn about what he did prior to joining the NBA. That doesn't change his age when he entered the league. He joined the NBA at an age that many others do as well. He signed his 2nd contract, 1st after his rookie deal, at an age that most players sign their deals. He was paid based on what he was projected to become. He didn't become that player so he won't get more than what he was paid before. End of the story. When he doesn't get a raise, feel free to bump this thread.

 

[hcsilla]

I don't really buy into Bledsoe's new-found defensive starship. In his 1st year in MIL and last 2 years in Phoenix he was a neutral/slight negative defender. Budenholzer could convince him to play defense again, but I would like to see one more season like this past from him defensively before I buy his (re-)transformation.

Regarding his offense: I know it is biased, but IMO his play-off performance is a much better indicator of his offensive game than his regular season efficiency.

He is the biggest beneficiary of the excellent teammates around him (Brogdon and Lopez included) and once defenses started to focus on him more, his shooting has gone and he still took terrible shots.

All in all he had an excellent season if he got 4year/70 mil. then (I modify my prediction) Rubio can expect 4 year/50 mil.

 

[hcsilla]

Why even bring up Bledsoe again?

Because he got paid a few months ago and this board must be quite familiar with Bledsoe.

You're jumping all over the place now for some reason.

Me jumping all over the place?

I said (and was forced to repeat) why I think that Rubio might get paid even more than last time.

I told you my points and you told me your (non-existant) ones.

I thought that the discussion has ended and tried to find out Rubio's next contract based on recent examples.

Quit trying to change the discussion,

Uh, you got me, Sherlock.

which was how much will Rubio get paid this summer.

See my response above.

No one gives a damn about what he did prior to joining the NBA.

Obviously everyone does (maybe except you), especially if you are talking about getting an extension based heavily on his potential which is definitely influenced by his former experience as a professional player.

That doesn't change his age when he entered the league.

It does not, it does change however the trajectory of his career.

Rubio himself is a textbook-example of how heavily prior prefossional experience does matter.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't really buy into Bledsoe's new-found defensive starship. In his 1st year in MIL and last 2 years in Phoenix he was a neutral/slight negative defender. Budenholzer could convince him to play defense again, but I would like to see one more season like this past from him defensively before I buy his (re-)transformation.

Regarding his offense: I know it is biased, but IMO his play-off performance is a much better indicator of his offensive game than his regular season efficiency.

He is the biggest beneficiary of the excellent teammates around him (Brogdon and Lopez included) and once defenses started to focus on him more, his shooting has gone and he still took terrible shots.

All in all he had an excellent season if he got 4year/70 mil. then (I modify my prediction) Rubio can expect 4 year/50 mil.

Bledsoe has been significantly more efficient than Rubio for their careers. He also rated as a elite defender his first 2 years in Phoenix, but gave up big time during the tanking season. Bledsoe is better on both ends of the court by significant margins.

In the last couple years Bledsoe has one of the best players on one of the best teams and was an All-NBA defender, Rubio on the other hand was moved in a salary dump trade and has had 2 teams move on from him.

Comparing them is a inane.

 

[hcsilla]

He also rated as a elite defender his first 2 years in Phoenix,

No, he was not.

In the last couple years Bledsoe has one of the best players on one of the best teams

I have him as the 3rd/4th best player in MIL.

Rubio on the other hand was moved in a salary dump trade

No, he got traded for a 1st rounder.

 

[SunnyBaller]

What is the trade value of Brunson the rookie PG from mavs?

Would Jackson and first-round protected pick in 2021 be enough

Brunson isn't worth a 1st, of course since JJ has no value that's probably what the trade would look like which would be horrible for the sun's

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I disagree.




Again, Rubio was not your typical rookie, he spent SIX seasons as a professional basketball player, at very least in the last two as one of the best (if not the best) european players before enteting into the NBA.

Then he did put up basically THREE identical seasons in the NBA, without showing any significant improvement. What lot of room to grow you think did he had that time entering in his 10th season as a pro?




Just FYI, I wrote that this is Bradley's and Grant's price range, becasue they already did get these deals last summer.

Rubios professional seasons abroad were largely as a teenager. Your statement is fairly ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not sure what I am ignoring... he's gotten worse and gotten older, he's not viewed as the same player...

But fine, when Rubio signs for like... half of what you think he will we can revisit this and reexamine who is ignoring "facts".

No no you were neglecting facts, not ignoring them. Maybe feed them a more balanced diet and help them with their homework more often. A little positive attention and I’m sure those facts will grow in self confidence and thrive!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They compared Rubio's yearly salary to Bledsoe's which is a clear sign that they were considered the same players regarding career trajectory, experience and potential, yes.

What else would have Saunders said?

Evan Massey probably has as much credit as anyone on this board, if he mentions Rubio's potential n his short review about Rubio's extension (where he says basically nothing) it hardly denies the pure facts that Rubio entered in this 10th season as a pro and he has shown next to zero improvement in his 3 NBA seasons.

You can google as many fan contributors as you wish and as many employees from the Wolves organization who says the usual diplomatic sentences about one of their players, it still does not change a bit the facts that I listed at least 5 times.

Lol. This was all about the perception of Rubio as having potential at the time of his last contract. Two separate quotes spoke directly to his perceived potential at the time. Now who is neglecting facts? Sorry I can’t help myself, you can’t write your type of off base crazy in this conversation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Okay, how much better is Bledsoe than Rubio?

Any look at that comparison in a vacuum. Too many other factors. For instance:

Bledsoe is on a team that is a contender. They want to disrupt their team as little possible right now so they likely pay a premium for Bledsoe that others likely wouldn’t.

Conversely, as a FA Rubio might attract a bigger offer if two teams view him as a need and bidding war ensues. Or alternatively all teams view him as a 2-3 year stop gap, and pay him stop gap (perhaps high end, but still stop gap) $$$.

 

[Hoop Head]

Lol. This was all about the perception of Rubio as having potential at the time of his last contract. Two separate quotes spoke directly to his perceived potential at the time. Now who is neglecting facts? Sorry I can’t help myself, you can’t write your type of off base crazy in this conversation.

Glad to see someone who wasn't involved in the discussion chime in. It was quite confusing to try to keep up with the spin.

 

[hcsilla]

Rubios professional seasons abroad were largely as a teenager.

And so what?

Even as a teenager he was one of the best (if not the best) european players for years. He just jumped from a very high floor into the NBA.

Not understanding that is fairly ridiculous.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

PG ROSE
SG BOOKER
SF BRIDGES
PF DARIO
C AYTON

That is best starting 5 suns have had in a while.

Bench

PG TY
SG CAM
SF JACKSON
PF OUBRE/BYNES
C BYNES


Bench needs work but all may be able to provide quality mins.

With salary, production, and experience Rose seems to be the best option.
Rose should get 15 to 20 pts a night with Booker and Ayton.

I don't see a PG available.
That can fill as many holes on this team for the salary they would pay Rose.

If Oubre comes back he is coming back to start.

 

[hcsilla]

Lol. This was all about the perception of Rubio as having potential at the time of his last contract. Two separate quotes spoke directly to his perceived potential at the time. Now who is neglecting facts?

You, among others.

Perceived potential as a fact? That's a contradiction in itself.

BTW, as I pointed out one comment was from his GM who obviously will say the nicest things about his player and the 2nd was from a minor contributor who did a little summary about the extension while mentionting his potential as a well-known panel when talking about young players.

These are your "facts".

 

[Yuma]

All I know, is I have never seen a potential free agent get so much love by Suns fans as D'Lo is getting. Twitter is aflame with D'Lo love on the Suns Twitter feed. Everywhere I go in town I hear people talking about him coming to Phoenix. I swear this has to be the number one sports topic right now, and we have a whole news Cards team getting ready to play, the Coyotes just made a big trade, Dbacks are fighting for survival, etc. Nope I am in stores and I hear, "Do you think the Suns are going to get D'Lo?"

 

[Hoop Head]

All I know, is I have never seen a potential free agent get so much love by Suns fans as D'Lo is getting. Twitter is aflame with D'Lo love on the Suns Twitter feed. Everywhere I go in town I hear people talking about him coming to Phoenix. I swear this has to be the number one sports topic right now, and we have a whole news Cards team getting ready to play, the Coyotes just made a big trade, Dbacks are fighting for survival, etc. Nope I am in stores and I hear, "Do you think the Suns are going to get D'Lo?"

This town has always been a Suns town. Russell is viewed as a return to credibility. I think the arena vote early in the year put the Suns back on a lot of people's radars, that and drafting Ayton.

 

[Town Drunk]

Do the Suns see Jerome as the heir apparent at point? If so, that makes a Rubio-sequel signing more likely rather than giving a max contract out at the position.

 

[Folster]

Bickley is speculating after speaking to some contacts in Minnesota that Booker, Russell, and Towns want to play together and if Russell goes to LA they know it will never happen.

Maybe this why we hear noise coming from Minny that they are trying to maneuver for Russell.

If the Suns do sign Russell, would Booker and Russell push Ayton out in a trade for Towns?

Interesting speculation nonetheless.

 

[95pro]

Bickley is speculating after speaking to some contacts in Minnesota that Booker, Russell, and Towns want to play together and if Russell goes to LA they know it will never happen.

Maybe this why we hear noise coming from Minny that they are trying to maneuver for Russell.

If the Suns do sign Russell, would Booker and Russell push Ayton out in a trade for Towns?

Interesting speculation nonetheless.

The three of these guys together...idk. Towns, no drive. Russell, weed. Booker, extracurricular activities have been an issue.

 

[hcsilla]

Bickley is speculating after speaking to some contacts in Minnesota that Booker, Russell, and Towns want to play together and if Russell goes to LA they know it will never happen.

Maybe this why we hear noise coming from Minny that they are trying to maneuver for Russell.

If the Suns do sign Russell, would Booker and Russell push Ayton out in a trade for Towns?

Interesting speculation nonetheless.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I would not trade Ayton for Towns straight-up.

 

[Sunburn]

Do the Suns see Jerome as the heir apparent at point? If so, that makes a Rubio-sequel signing more likely rather than giving a max contract out at the position.

I highly doubt a late first rounder that has not played a game yet is perceived as an heir apparent.

 

[Yuma]

Bickley is speculating after speaking to some contacts in Minnesota that Booker, Russell, and Towns want to play together and if Russell goes to LA they know it will never happen.

Maybe this why we hear noise coming from Minny that they are trying to maneuver for Russell.

If the Suns do sign Russell, would Booker and Russell push Ayton out in a trade for Towns?

Interesting speculation nonetheless.

Oh HELL no! If I am Booker and Russell, and if I play in Phoenix, I want to add Towns to Ayton. I don't know how in the hells you do that contractually. If they are really serious, everyone takes a haircut. Magic did it back in the day. I think Larry may have done it. I remember a few guys doing it to make their teams better.

Just a side note, Ayton has never really had a good coach. Williams is known to have developed big men. I have a gut feeling we are going to see a big jump in Ayton's game over the course of this season. Just a hunch.