Point guard speculation article - Russell hope

[sdscard4]

I see the opposite....haven't heard people talk about the Suns in years even drafting Ayton. Getting Dlo gets us some talk around the sports world but that's about it. To much money for 1 good year and he sucked azz in the playoffs. I'm in the Rubio camp.

 

[Sunburn]

I have to admit, Book, DLo, and Ayton would be the best, young core 3 in the NBA. Surround them with defense and 3 point shooting. Could be a force for a decade.

 

[hcsilla]

Anyone who thinks a 16 year old is at peak performance just isn’t rational.

Noone talked about a 16 year old and noone talked about a peak performance. Specifically noone mentioned that he was at peak performance while being 16 years old.

Apart from that it was a great point by you.

 

[hcsilla]

The argument was about what people’s perceptions were at the time.

No, the argument was that Rubio's extension was not handled based on his "untapped potential" and his "rising star" status, because the former was limited and the latter was debatable.

You were provided written proof, from that time, as to what at least two peoples perceptions were

In other words a written proof of something that did NOT contribute to the debate.

And you offer ZERO quotes evidencing perceptions to the contrary.

I did not need to offer quotes to the contrary because I never said that people did not say (because of different reasons) that Rubio has potential.

And the GM - the dude who gave him the contract - was being disingenuous about the reasoning behind giving him the contract?!? That’s your argument?!? If there was anyone in the world whose quote would matter on your argument IT’S HIM!!!

Disingenous? , that's a good one.

I guess this is the 1st time when you face the reality where GM's say nice things about their players and praise them.

If you think, this completely does match with what they think about their players, I can not help.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

No, the argument was that Rubio's extension was not handled based on his "untapped potential" and his "rising star" status, because the former was limited and the latter was debatable.



In other words a written proof of something that did NOT contribute to the debate.



I did not need to offer quotes to the contrary because I never said that people did not say (because of different reasons) that Rubio has potential.




Disingenous? , that's a good one.

I guess this is the 1st time when you face the reality where GM's say nice things about their players and praise them.

If you think, this completely does match with what they think about their players, I can not help.

If his intent was to say nice things and talk his guy up then why was he talking about the player that Rubio could become? Wouldn't it be higher praise to be talking him up as a great player already?

 

[hcsilla]

If his intent was to say nice things and talk his guy up then why was he talking about the player that Rubio could become? Wouldn't it be higher praise to be talking him up as a great player already?

It would have been a higher praise, but it would have been a lie as well since he was not a great player and everybody knew that he was not.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It would have been a higher praise, but it would have been a lie as well since he was not a great player and everybody knew that he was not.

Then why did he get the contract that he got. Was it because the GM thought he was already good or because they thought he had room to improve? I think I’ll go with what the GM said and not try to play armchair psychology.

 

[Phrazbit]

It would have been a higher praise, but it would have been a lie as well since he was not a great player and everybody knew that he was not.

Which is why they were hoping he would grow into the contract, he didn't and now he isn't worth anywhere near as much.

You're defeating your own argument here.

 

[hcsilla]

Which is why they were hoping he would grow into the contract, he didn't and now he isn't worth anywhere near as much.

You're defeating your own argument here.

I'm not.

Your words were Rubio had "untapping potential" and he was a "potential rising star".

I did disagree with that and I still do. Go back and read again and why.

I still think that he will get more than your prediction because that's what Avery Bradley and Jerami Grant got last summer and Rubio is worth more than that, IMO.

 

[hcsilla]

Then why did he get the contract that he got. Was it because the GM thought he was already good or because they thought he had room to improve? I think I’ll go with what the GM said.

Sure.

You already did and I have nothing to do, if you keep doing so.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not.

Your words were Rubio had "untapping potential" and he was a "potential rising star".

I did disagree with that and I still do. Go back and read again and why.

I still think that he will get more than your prediction because that's what Avery Bradley and Jerami Grant got last summer and Rubio is worth more than that, IMO.

I said it was the perception, it's why he got that contract, he was not worth that money, even you admit it.

They paid him with the hope/expectation of growth and because he was viewed as a cornerstone player for their franchise. He didn't develop and they moved him in a salary dump, and yes, it was a salary dump, they got a late first and cleared his contract, then immediately signed Jeff Teague with the space they created.

You're saying that he wasn't a great player and they knew it... but they also supposedly had no expectation or hope of growth... but they still gave him a contract that was only a hair under the max? Those are contradictions. And they idea that a 23 year old was viewed as a finished product is just nuts.

But even sillier is the notion that the perception around Rubio now... after being dumped by two teams, is the same as it was then... 5 years earlier and having just inked a near max deal.

 

[Carolinacacti]

This is the Suns we’re talking about. They traded back in to draft Jerome. I wonder if that impacts their pursuit of free agent PGs.

Town Drunk is spot on you idiots.

 

[hcsilla]

I said it was the perception, it's why he got that contract,

And I said, it hardly could be a perception since ... I already listed the reasons.

They paid him with the hope/expectation of growth and because he was viewed as a cornerstone player for their franchise.

They paid him because he already was a solid starting PG and despite his very high floor and obviously not that high ceiling there was still some hope than he could improve.

You're saying that he wasn't a great player and they knew it... but they also supposedly had no expectation or hope of growth

Supposedly by whom?

And they idea that a 23 year old was viewed as a finished product is just nuts.

24, and who said that he was a finished porduct?

But even sillier is the notion that the perception around Rubio now... after being dumped by two teams, is the same as it was then... 5 years earlier and having just inked a near max deal.

I just remind you (after getting really tired by this totally repetitive debate) that my starting post was:

Last time Rubio signed a new contract, it was 55 mil./4 year in MIN.

Since the cap increased significantly since then, I doubt that he will settle down for less than 60 mil./4 year.

I still don't see what is so deadly mistaken in this post and I more or less still think the same but if you don't mind, I just quit from this conversation because it doesn't bring up any new points while probably disturbing other posters.

 

[SunsFanFirst]

I knew Booker was bad defensively, but I didn't realize he was that bad. I am starting to doubt if a winning team can feature Booker as its best player...

This.. giving Booker the max was one of the worst mistakes we've recently made. Stat padding on a historically bad Suns team does not make a superstar. He is the best example of Suns fans overvaluing our players

 

[Sunburn]

This.. giving Booker the max was one of the worst mistakes we've recently made. Stat padding on a historically bad Suns team does not make a superstar. He is the best example of Suns fans overvaluing our players

Please..........any other team in the league would've happily given him the same contract.

 

[hcsilla]

Booker is bad defensively, but in a right system he might increase his defense effort and awareness and might become a neutral defender.

 

[taz02]

This.. giving Booker the max was one of the worst mistakes we've recently made. Stat padding on a historically bad Suns team does not make a superstar. He is the best example of Suns fans overvaluing our players

What? This team has a hard time convincing mid level players to sign here. Booker may be flawed but you have to retain top players in order to bring respect to the franchise. Signing Booker was a step in the right direction. Letting him walk would have devastated the franchise

 

[SunsFanFirst]

What? This team has a hard time convincing mid level players to sign here. Booker may be flawed but you have to retain top players in order to bring respect to the franchise. Signing Booker was a step in the right direction. Letting him walk would have devastated the franchise

I see a mid level player that looks like a “top” player because he plays on a terrible team

 

[slinslin]

I see a mid level player that looks like a “top” player because he plays on a terrible team

lol

 

[slinslin]

Player: DRPM: Rank per position:

Book: -2.44: 91
Dlo: -0.57: 59
KAT: 0.84 49
Ayton: 0.90 48 (for some reason ESPN has him listed as SF... cuz that's all we had on the roster. I adjusted it to the Center.)

Not a single one of them fall in the top 45 of their positions. That means they are worse than half the backups. Imagine just how bad our D would be.

More entertaining than what we have now? Absolutely.
Winning anything of significance? No

DRPM is a flawed stat.

 

[slinslin]

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I would not trade Ayton for Towns straight-up.

Towns should play PF alongside Ayton anyway.

When Towns becomes available down the road add him using future picks. Minnesota probably won't have much leverage when it happens.

 

[devilalum]

Steve Nash came back to the Suns when he was 30 and took his game to the next level.

MVP level.

It happens.

 

[elindholm]

This.. giving Booker the max was one of the worst mistakes we've recently made.

Good lord, even if you think it was a mistake, it can't possibly be one of the worst Suns mistakes.

 

[SunnyBaller]

This.. giving Booker the max was one of the worst mistakes we've recently made. Stat padding on a historically bad Suns team does not make a superstar. He is the best example of Suns fans overvaluing our players

I can think of several worse decisions then paying one of their only good players

 

[taz02]

I see a mid level player that looks like a “top” player because he plays on a terrible team

There were 494 players on 2018-19 opening day rosters.
Booker was 7th in scoring 27ppg 14th in assists 7APG and 9th in FTA with 393.

The six players that scored more PPG than Booker last season are, Harden, Paul George, Giannis, Embiid, Curry and Kawhi.

I agree that Booker is a flawed player, defense and health but to say he is a mid level player is way off base.

Here are the 2018-19 mid level numbers and an example of mid level players that meet those #'s.

• 10.2 points per game, Dario Saric
• 4.1 rebounds per game, Danny Green
• 2.0 assists per game, Eric Gordon