Point guard speculation article - Russell hope

[Cheesebeef]

What's your point? ALL stats are flawed. ALL.

There isn't a stat that's going to nail it. But DRPM can give you an idea.

More than that. After scouting KAT and Dlo numerous times, neither pass the eyeball test. They aren't even average Defenders.

KAT is inconsistent and soft. Loads of potential, true. But we're already worried about Ayton's motor. So now we're hypothetically going to add another max player that has motor concerns?

Dlo and Book would get eaten alive by any sensible team. They both struggle laterally and aren't smart on D.

so, I'll admit I'm not super up on the defensive abilities of other guard tandems, but are Dame and McCollough looked at as average, above average, below average at the position? If Booker/Russell reached that level of adequacy on D, we'd just have to make sure moving into the future that the front line behind them was good enough to cover for their shortcomings.

 

[Yuma]

agreed. even without Durant, the Nets will basically be the same team only swapping out Kyrie for Russell. I think that swap probably keeps them running in place, which gets them 7 or 8 seed this year with what they probably hope is the missing piece next year with Durant back... even tho I don't think he'll be close to the same player. Durant will probably morph into more of a Dirk at the tail end of his prime when he comes back. I just don't expect the same explosiveness at 32 coming off a devastating injury like an achilles.

I think a less mobile KD still gets you twenty a night. He's not using his handles to make a lot of moves like Kyrie to get his shot off. KD just decides to shot and shoots over you. I am thinking not as many drives to the hole, maybe less shot blocks.

 

[Hoop Head]

We all know Booker isn't a good defender but when we went on a little run in February when everyone was healthy and available Booker was playing D regularly and adequately. It seemed like Oubre pushed him to keep trying. I'd never seen another teammate talk to Booker like that and get him to put that much of an effort on D since his rookie season. I'm not saying Booker will become a great defender but there is reason to believe he can be average or just below average for his position.

 

[Yuma]

We all know Booker isn't a good defender but when we went on a little run in February when everyone was healthy and available Booker was playing D regularly and adequately. It seemed like Oubre pushed him to keep trying. I'd never seen another teammate talk to Booker like that and get him to put that much of an effort on D since his rookie season. I'm not saying Booker will become a great defender but there is reason to believe he can be average or just below average for his position.

There are spurts in games where he hustles back and gets a shot block, or jumps a pass. I think he can do it. It's just motivation.

 

[Raze]

Ok then. DRPM is really flawed compared to most other stats.

Feel free to pick another stat that disproves my original point.

Try DEFRTG via NBA.com (Postional rating for G/F/C: probably can subtract 20 for players playing less than 40 games):

Book: 115.1 (253 out of 263 Gs)
DAR: 107.9 (121 for G)
KAT: 111.3 (78 for C)
Ayton: 113 (91 out of 100 C)

I really don't care which stat you use or if you use common sense observational assessments. No matter which way you slice it, the guys suck at D.

 

[SirStefan32]

We all know Booker isn't a good defender but when we went on a little run in February when everyone was healthy and available Booker was playing D regularly and adequately. It seemed like Oubre pushed him to keep trying. I'd never seen another teammate talk to Booker like that and get him to put that much of an effort on D since his rookie season. I'm not saying Booker will become a great defender but there is reason to believe he can be average or just below average for his position.

I remember that. THAT right there is why you gotta keep Oubre.

 

[Raze]

so, I'll admit I'm not super up on the defensive abilities of other guard tandems, but are Dame and McCollough looked at as average, above average, below average at the position? If Booker/Russell reached that level of adequacy on D, we'd just have to make sure moving into the future that the front line behind them was good enough to cover for their shortcomings.

This is the perfect comp for Dlo and Book. I've been extremely hard on the Portland Gs for their shortcomings on D:

For context we'll use DEFTRG (to appease Slin):

Lillard: 107.9 (122 for G)
CJ: 108.9 (150 for G)

Not exactly inspiring numbers considering there are only 60 starting Gs.

That said... the way they played in the playoffs was at another level. Especially Lillard. I've never seen him work that hard on D. I gained another level of respect for Damien.

My concern with Damien was always effort. Exact same with Dlo.
My concern with CJ is rigid lateral movement. Exact same with Book.

So your point is valid. If Dlo and Book can "rise" to the level of Dame and CJ on Defense then we might have something. (IOW, Book has a ton of work to do: Seriously. There were only 10 Gs worse than Book on D in the entire NBA and only 2 of those played more than 50 games: Crawford and Sexton.)

 

[Phrazbit]

Feel free to pick another stat that disproves my original point.

Try DEFRTG via NBA.com (Postional rating for G/F/C: probably can subtract 20 for players playing less than 40 games):

Book: 115.1 (253 out of 263 Gs)
DAR: 107.9 (121 for G)
KAT: 111.3 (78 for C)
Ayton: 113 (91 out of 100 C)

I really don't care which stat you use or if you use common sense observational assessments. No matter which way you slice it, the guys suck at D.

Those stats measure how many points the team gives up per 100 possessions while that player is on the court, they're not a very telling individual measure, unless the team is way better or worse without them. Defense is far more about players buying into the team system and executing it.

Kyrie for example; in Cleveland he was rated as one of the worst defensive guards in the league, he was a turnstile. In Boston, he joins a really strong defensive team and he was rated as one of the better defensive guards.

The good defensive stats are the ones you need a subscription for, stats that show how much one player being defender by another alters their normal stats.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember that. THAT right there is why you gotta keep Oubre.

agree. he really came on strong once put in the starting lineup, is still VERY young and brought a desperately needed junkyard dog energy to an otherwise pretty vanilla squad on the floor.

 

[Rab]

I will literally be crushed if Oubre isn’t back. Not because he’s the best player out there, but this team is better with him from a basketball and cultural standpoint. He totally won me over and given the opportunity he delivered. He played well with Ayton and Book. He has swag and personality and he’s not afraid of the moment. Please bring him back.


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[1Sun]

I will literally be crushed if Oubre isn’t back. Not because he’s the best player out there, but this team is better with him from a basketball and cultural standpoint. He totally won me over and given the opportunity he delivered. He played well with Ayton and Book. He has swag and personality and he’s not afraid of the moment. Please bring him back.


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Worst nightmare scenario would be letting Oubre go and using the cap space to sign Joseph and Kaminsky...and, sadly, that scenario is looking more and more likely...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will literally be crushed if Oubre isn’t back. Not because he’s the best player out there, but this team is better with him from a basketball and cultural standpoint. He totally won me over and given the opportunity he delivered. He played well with Ayton and Book. He has swag and personality and he’s not afraid of the moment. Please bring him back.


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unless someone signs him for something over 20 million, I'll be super pissed. It's hard enough for this team to find legitimate talent/get any kind of FA worth a lick to come here. Letting someone who looks like a core piece go will suck major donkey dick and no doubt be noticed by Booker.

 

[Ronin]

D'Angelo Russell free agency rumors: Suns ‘really’ want to add guard, executive says

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba...ard-executive-says/1f9rvu4d05x9x1pir8fkbe8z5e

 

[Rab]

Exactly. And given we literally have no assets to trade anymore outside of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, TJ’s expiring contract, combined with a not so great free agent class next year, I feel like this is the year we will have to spend and take a chance. Go get Oubre back and make your play for Russell if you can. The clock on the Booker era is running out if they don’t do something good here. I don’t care what his contract says, he’ll get out of here.


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[Cheesebeef]

Exactly. And given we literally have no assets to trade anymore outside of Booker, Ayton, Bridges, TJ’s expiring contract, combined with a not so great free agent class next year, I feel like this is the year we will have to spend and take a chance. Go get Oubre back and make your play for Russell if you can. The clock on the Booker era is running out if they don’t do something good here. I don’t care what his contract says, he’ll get out of here.


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agreed. this really shouldn't be that hard. They just need to spend the money.. Stretch TJ, give yourself enough cap room to sign Russell without losing any assets and resign Oubre. You then have your core, a happy Booker and a coach we all think could be a guy to get this squad to reach much more of their potential and hopefully play a little D.

That said, I TOTALLY expect Russell to go by the wayside and am nervous about Oubre.

 

[Rab]

agreed. this really shouldn't be that hard. They just need to spend the money.. Stretch TJ, give yourself enough cap room to sign Russell without losing any assets and resign Oubre. You then have your core, a happy Booker and a coach we all think could be a guy to get this squad to reach much more of their potential and hopefully play a little D.

That said, I TOTALLY expect Russell to go by the wayside and am nervous about Oubre.

I agree on all fronts. I am nervous about Oubre myself. Russell would be icing on the cake but if turns out we don’t even make a play for him I’ll just lose all hope. (And there isn’t much hope there to lose)

The path is there. The ability to do it is there if the cards fall right. I’m just not at all confident in the people executing those decisions.


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[Cheesebeef]

I agree on all fronts. I am nervous about Oubre myself. Russell would be icing on the cake but if turns out we don’t even make a play for him I’ll just lose all hope. (And there isn’t much hope there to lose)

The path is there. The ability to do it is there if the cards fall right. I’m just not at all confident in the people executing those decisions.


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yup. there's really no reason for them not to at least bring him in and talk. do the BARE MINIMUM at least here.

 

[Mainstreet]

How via a sign and trade?

The only reason they would not match is if they can use the 2 max slots - if they are going to do that, they can't take back salary.

If they fail to use the second max slot - what are we going to trade them that matches salary and is more valuable than what they can get as a free agent?

Our offer would have to be like Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson and a first rounder. That is not a very appealing package.

TJohnson would have to part of any deal. Mtl. Would the Clippers take that on? I doubt it.

The sign and trade is not explained in the article. There are not a lot of attractive options that deliver Russell on a new contract.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is the perfect comp for Dlo and Book. I've been extremely hard on the Portland Gs for their shortcomings on D:

For context we'll use DEFTRG (to appease Slin):

Lillard: 107.9 (122 for G)
CJ: 108.9 (150 for G)

Not exactly inspiring numbers considering there are only 60 starting Gs.

That said... the way they played in the playoffs was at another level. Especially Lillard. I've never seen him work that hard on D. I gained another level of respect for Damien.

My concern with Damien was always effort. Exact same with Dlo.
My concern with CJ is rigid lateral movement. Exact same with Book.

So your point is valid. If Dlo and Book can "rise" to the level of Dame and CJ on Defense then we might have something. (IOW, Book has a ton of work to do: Seriously. There were only 10 Gs worse than Book on D in the entire NBA and only 2 of those played more than 50 games: Crawford and Sexton.)

I suck at finding advanced stats online, especially defensive stats. Can you look up what Booker's DEFTRG was under Triano? I'm curious if there was much of a difference since he was relatively healthy that year compared to last year where he had various injuries up until January or February.

I know he's not a good defender, I'd never claim he was, but I've seen him be more than capable on that end and I'm curious how his health has impacted his game on that end of the floor.

 

[GatorAZ]

Something more about Russell and the Suns.

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Likely clickbait rumor considering a S&T with salary coming back prevents Brooklyn from signing two max FA’s. UNLESS they’re only signing Kyrie and don’t want Russell in the same backcourt.

 

[Raze]

I suck at finding advanced stats online, especially defensive stats. Can you look up what Booker's DEFTRG was under Triano? I'm curious if there was much of a difference since he was relatively healthy that year compared to last year where he had various injuries up until January or February.

I know he's not a good defender, I'd never claim he was, but I've seen him be more than capable on that end and I'm curious how his health has impacted his game on that end of the floor.

No problem.

2017-2018: 112.2 (#237)
2016-2017: 111.6 (#197)

Even though these numbers are better than this year, I saw more life out of him when we got Oubre. Still, he is probably THE worst defending G in all of the NBA the last 3 years. That's saying something.

 

[1Sun]

No problem.

2017-2018: 112.2 (#237)
2016-2017: 111.6 (#197)

Even though these numbers are better than this year, I saw more life out of him when we got Oubre. Still, he is probably THE worst defending G in all of the NBA the last 3 years. That's saying something.

Could the poor defense have anything to do with lack of athleticism and lack of lateral quickness (which were two knocks on Booker coming out of Kentucky, and which also had a lot to do with why Nash struggled on defense despite his best efforts there), and if so could we see the same defensive struggles on the horizon for Ty Jerome?

 

[Mainstreet]

Some Suns fans really want D'Angelo Russell if this billboard is any indication.

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[Mainstreet]

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[Hoop Head]

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Sarver has to smell the money he'd make if he signed him. I'm sure a lot of fans and season ticket holders expressed their disdain for the draft and canceled ther tickets or . Unless Monty says he doesn't want D'Lo for some reason, which I think is highly unlikely, the Suns need to roll out the red carpet for him and make the attempt. I'm not crazy about the idea of paying him that much but I hope he can prove me wrong. There are plenty of worse ways to spend that money.