POR/PHX idea

[thegrahamcrackr]

Since I don't want to spend the rest of the cap space on any of the remaining FAs, I looked at some trade possibilities.

Straight up

PHX Trades

Shawn Marion - 11.3 million
Rights to Vujanic

POR Trades

Shareef Abdur Rahim - Somewhere near 14 million



The suns use their cap space to absorb the difference in contracts. Vujanic is added since the Blazers will have backcourt openning after next summer, and it seems like Vujanic is more of a combo guard (plus he has to be included in any fantasy rumor now)


Blazers get a true SF to go along with Randolph. Great guy, so he doesn't hurt their fragile image.

Abdur Rahim generally plays PF, but I think he could play the 3. He isn't afraid of contact like Marion, and will drive to the hole.

He is a staple for the Nice Guy award, just like Marion.

Plus, his deal expires after the season. Ideally he would work out, and allow us to resign him at half price next year. If not, we gain a ton of cap space for next summer.

He has never worked out where he is the man, but I think he could make a nice role player alongside Amare.

Couple things, anyone watch a lot of Blazer ball? I want to know how he played when he was on the floor with Randolph.

Also, I have apparently just joined the "trade Marion group" (I reserve the right to shed this affiliation at any moment, and will most likely do so by morning)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

BTW, I really like Abdur Rahim (most likely the reason I came up with this). It is one of those "guy does good for your fantasy team, so you want him on your home team" things.

I also have strong doubts the Blazers would wants Marion's deal. However, they are one of the few teams that could look the other way if they felt he fit their needs. (It would hurt their FA plans next summer though, not that there are any great FAs...)

 

[Dave64]

I like Rahim also. He did not adjust well to the trade with Portland, so maybe they are not real high on him. He has put up some serious numbers scoring and rebounding in his career. This may be a case of buying low since he stunk it up in Portland. Good idea.

 

[Dave64]

Here is an interesting article on Rahim. He seems to be content to be the team's #2 option after years of being the go to guy on bad teams. Maybe that would be a good combo with Amare?

 

[KloD]

BTW, I really like Abdur Rahim (most likely the reason I came up with this). It is one of those "guy does good for your fantasy team, so you want him on your home team" things.

I also have strong doubts the Blazers would wants Marion's deal. However, they are one of the few teams that could look the other way if they felt he fit their needs. (It would hurt their FA plans next summer though, not that there are any great FAs...)

Shareef did play well after the trade. Most of his off moments could be attributed to his limited role off the bench as the Blazers went with Miles. Not really sure why unless they went with the player they had first traded for or maybe giving Miles the minutes in hopes he will resign this summer or to see if they even want to keep him based on his play with Randolph.

I am ok with the trade idea, but it's hard to let Marion go just to gain cap room (if we/he chose not to resign) next year. Is their anyone better at his position available next year?

I have a feeling many on this board are going to warm up to him again this next season. Over paid? Sure, but he was fun to watch when he was running with Kidd. I have a feeling with a PG in the same image passing to him on the run, we will see what we had hoped he would become before the Marbury era. If we are to let Marion go in a trade, I would rather wait till close to the trade deadline when I think his value will be peaked.

 

[Dave64]

Sorry, I forgot to put up the promised link on Rahim.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=may_peter&id=1731710

 

[George O'Brien]

Did anyone mention that SAR gets $14.6 million this year?

IMHO, he will get traded to a team that is a looking for an expiring contract or to a team like Utah in Googs type salary dump.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Did anyone mention that SAR gets $14.6 million this year?

IMHO, he will get traded to a team that is a looking for an expiring contract or to a team like Utah in Googs type salary dump.

I put that in my original post. In theory, the Suns could be using this as a salary dump in exchange for Marion (except they would likely want to resign him to a lower deal).

SAR won't get moved in a fasion like Googs, since dropping his salary shouldnt put the Blazers under the tax threshold IIRC. (Not that Allen cares)

 

[George O'Brien]

I put that in my original post. In theory, the Suns could be using this as a salary dump in exchange for Marion (except they would likely want to resign him to a lower deal).

SAR won't get moved in a fasion like Googs, since dropping his salary shouldnt put the Blazers under the tax threshold IIRC. (Not that Allen cares)

Since the tax is $2 for every dollar over - we ARE talking about saving almost $30 million cash on a guy who is a backup player.

 

[scotsman13]

the problem i have with this deal is that we are loosing a player who is almost a prefect fit for amare in marion for a player who will be gone next year and who best position is the same as our star player.

it seems to me that marion bashing has gotten to the point on this board that almost one gives him any respect for what he does. marion will have a great year this year with nash. marion is a jack of all trades who does all of the little things to help make this team more successful.

 

[elindholm]

Adbur-Rahim is generally disliked on this board, but I'm fond of him too. I should point out, however, that Marion was an even better fantasy player last year.

I do think the Suns are trying to move Marion, but I also think they'll want the security of something more in return. Maybe Abdur-Rahim would re-up for half price and maybe he wouldn't; in any case, it's very unlikely he would agree to that as part of the trade.

And if you look at what's going on with FA prices this summer, it might be very difficult to replace Marion's production level with players of equivalent salary in 2005.

Also, I don't think Portland does this trade. I think they're sold on Miles as their SF of the future.

 

[schutd]

And if you look at what's going on with FA prices this summer, it might be very difficult to replace Marion's production level with players of equivalent salary in 2005.

This is an EXCELLENT point I havent seen made yet this offseason as the majority of folks on this board continue to hold the "Marion is overpaid" line.

Guess what kids? Not anymore he's not.

 

[elindholm]

But what a difference a year makes. Foyle and Okur are getting the same kind of money that Olowokandi and Nesterovic got last summer. Now, granted, Olowokandi in particular has been a disappointment so far, but are you telling me there's any team in the league that would rather have Foyle?

It's almost like when you travel to a different state, and everyone is still using dollars, but the prices are completely different. Just as there are good and bad draft years, it looks like we're establishing a pattern of "expensive" and "cheap" FA years.

 

[schutd]

It's almost like when you travel to a different state, and everyone is still using dollars, but the prices are completely different.

Like Canada?

Cept there, the strippers actually TAKE coins. Nevermind.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I love Shareef as well, having watched him on numerous occasions when he was up here in Vancouver. He's a great community and locker room guy and is pretty good on the court.

The only problem i see is that his game is all about being on the low block and wouldn't mesh well with Amare's game. Reef does have a solid 15-20 foot jumper but his bread and butter is his variety of spin moves and hooks down low.

At this stage I don't think it would be a good move to trade marion for him as his best position would be to back up Amare.

 

[George O'Brien]

Like Canada?

Cept there, the strippers actually TAKE coins. Nevermind.

I don't even WANT to know what that means.

A few thoughts on this year's FA market and last:

1. A year ago there were some high profile players up: Duncan, J. O'Neal, and Kidd, but overall the quality was not fantastic. Some big contract moves or RFA matches (this year's salaries) were Arenas - $9.3 million ), Odom - gets $9.1, Brand - $12, Terry - $7, Maggette $6.1, Miller - $5.7 come immediately to mind.

2. The best centers to move were Miller at $7.8 million this year followed by Nestorovic at $6.1. These guys were very good "buys", but may have been underrated because they played with superstar power forwards for the former teams. I'm beginning to think that Miller was simply an anomoly rather a sign of fiscal restraint.

3. There is a growing belief that the luxury tax will be going away with the next players contract. I wonder if perhaps they are anticipating that change.

4. Last year the two teams with the most cap space, Utah and Denver, were excessively conservative. Utah all but struck out and Denver's main FA pickup was Miller. They seem less likely to sit on their cap this summer as each have big deals already.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Utah tried to spend, and they actually got someone to sign.

If Detroit loose Sheed (not likely) they may match Okur. Playing with RFA's is always a pain in the ass. You have to overpay to try and get the team to not match. Same thing is about to happen with Manu (no way he deserves 9 mil)

 

[devilalum]

This is an EXCELLENT point I havent seen made yet this offseason as the majority of folks on this board continue to hold the "Marion is overpaid" line.

Guess what kids? Not anymore he's not.

Yeah.

What kind of contract do you think Marion would get if he was a free agent this summer?

 

[SweetD]

Yeah.

What kind of contract do you think Marion would get if he was a free agent this summer?

I would say some around 10-12 mil a year. I don't think he is a max player but you also have to think if Marion was to go to a bigger market he would make more in additonal revenue. So the Suns have to overpay to keep their players sometimes.

 

[wsupkid]

Let me think about that..... NO. Marion is worth more than that. Lets not sell him short.

P.S. I still want KOBE!!!

 

[coloradosun]

Since I don't want to spend the rest of the cap space on any of the remaining FAs, I looked at some trade possibilities.

Straight up

PHX Trades

Shawn Marion - 11.3 million
Rights to Vujanic

POR Trades

Shareef Abdur Rahim - Somewhere near 14 million

I would ammend this trade just a little and make it

Marion 11.6
Voskuhl 1.7?
Vujanic N/C
13.3M
For

SAR 14.6
Ratliff 10.0?
24.6

With our remaining 6M (est) cap room and our 5.6 trade exception with the Jahidi exchange would allow this deal to work. We would have expiring contracts but with Bird rights to these players.

From what I have read the Blazers might not have enough cap room to match Miles offer. He and Q Richardson have been traveling around and visiting teams together and they could end up in either Denver or LA Clips, then Portland might have an interest in Marion and this deal.

 

[Dave64]

Trades have to be within 15% of each other in terms of money. If you added Ratliff to the trade, the Suns would have to throw in Eisley plus to make the salaries match.

 

[coloradosun]

If their over the cap, the Suns are not.

 

[JCSunsfan]

With our remaining 6M (est) cap room and our 5.6 trade exception with the Jahidi exchange would allow this deal to work.

We have no trade exception from the Jahidi to Charlotte deal. That deal is what got us under the cap. When you are under, you get no trade exceptions. Otherwise it would be "double-dipping."

You can't get the privileges of being under the cap (FA signings like Nash) AND the privileges of being over the cap (trade exceptions and mid-level exceptions).

 

[coloradosun]

We have no trade exception from the Jahidi to Charlotte deal. That deal is what got us under the cap. When you are under, you get no trade exceptions. Otherwise it would be "double-dipping."

You can't get the privileges of being under the cap (FA signings like Nash) AND the privileges of being over the cap (trade exceptions and mid-level exceptions).

We were already under the cap before that deal. I thought that if we had a player selected in the expansion draft we got a trade exception automaticly and if we wanted it we had the right to execute it. Otherwise we had to notify the league that we were not going to use it.