Possibilities

[scotsman13]

here is an idea if we believe that we can sign kobe, with our first pick we get someone like splitter or perovic (players whos contracts may not be up for a couple of years) this way you still get the value of the pick but still leave the salery space open.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by scotsman13
here is an idea if we believe that we can sign kobe, with our first pick we get someone like splitter or perovic (players whos contracts may not be up for a couple of years) this way you still get the value of the pick but still leave the salery space open.

Another option in regards to your above scenario is keeping the later of the two picks, regardless of who it is. The salary will be less and obviously not affect our cap as much. Just an idea--a higher first rounder would be great if we also had Kobe Bryant, but would we really need it?

Unfortunately, its difficult to answer any of these "draft vs. Kobe" questions because we wouldn't even be able to talk to Kobe until a month after the draft...

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by Chaplin

Unfortunately, its difficult to answer any of these "draft vs. Kobe" questions because we wouldn't even be able to talk to Kobe until a month after the draft...

This really comes down to a difference of philosopy. There will be too many unknowns regarding Kobe at the time of the expansion draft. He might not opt out. Or his trial might still be going on. But if he opts out and is free at the time of expansion, the Suns may face a situation where they may have to trade a couple of picks (to get rid of Eisley) in order to free up enough money to make a run at him. Since any such deal would come before the draft AND free agency, we could, as you mentioned, run the risk of losing a couple of 1st's for nothing. There's no question it would be a risky deal. I'm probably in the minority, but that's a risk I'd be willing to take.

Again, it might not even come down to that. Plus, you can be sure the C's will figure out legally or not how much interest Kobe has in our team before giving away a couple of picks.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Well, TMac doesn't even count in this discussion because he can't be signed as a free agent.

Like I said earlier Chap, TMAC has an opt out clause in 2005, so we may technically be able to sign him as a FA.

SunCardFan, Capologist posted a really interesting thing a week or two ago. It was a break down of every pick we have traded, or traded for in the last 10 years or so. Our ability to draft from those picks was incredible, I will look to see if I can find it

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Capologist

People sure do seem desperate to give away picks.

Draft picks don't grow on trees, you know. They're valuable.

Also worth noting —

These are the deals we have made in the last 10 years in which we have traded away first-round picks:
Dan Majerle and a #1 for Hot Rod Williams
Wesley Person, Tony Dumas, and two first-round picks for Antonio McDyess
Mark Bryant and a first-round pick for L*c L*****y
Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, and two first-round picks for ¢ Hardaway


These are the deals in which we have received first-round picks:
Cedric Ceballos for a first-round pick that turned out to be Michael Finley
Steve Nash for a first-round pick that turned out to be Shawn Marion
Jud Buechler and Vinny Del Negro for Bo Outlaw and a pick (Amare Stoudemire)
Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk for Joe Johnson and a pick (Casey Jacobsen)


I'm disregarding pick-for-a-pick swaps such as the Barbosa deal and the provision of the McDyess deal that ultimately caused us to give up a third pick and has the Cavs still owing us a pick all these years later.

Bottom line: We tend to do a hell of a lot better when we accept picks than when we give them away.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23051&perpage=15&highlight=draft&pagenumber=3

 

[hcsilla]

Jud Buechler and Vinny Del Negro for Bo Outlaw and a pick (Amare Stoudemire)

That pick was used on Cabarkapa not Stoudemire.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by hcsilla
That pick was used on Cabarkapa not Stoudemire.

Yah that was pointed out in the other thread as well

 

[George O'Brien]

I don't think it is even possible to give the Bobcats two draft picks to take Eisley. Otherwise, I would have proposad a current pick and the Cleveland pickwhich might get the job done.

As I've said elsewhere, I would give up a current pick to get Eisley off the books even though I doubt there would be a FA or a trade worth doing this summer. That's because it would mean he was already off the books when White's contract expires in 2005.

The issue of clearing cap space is to be able to go for a super elite player. If you doubt that someone worth taking will be available in the next two years, then not doing anything and keeping the picks is the best choice.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Like I said we've been incredibly good at picking players out of the draft. I mean how many 1st's pan out? I'd probably guess we're one of the very top teams at drafting. But I think most picks don't do that much for a team. Also I think we have been drafting a lot lately which is kind of abnormal for the suns. I think we have enough upincomers and it's time to get some quality veteran players in here or superstars...

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
Like I said we've been incredibly good at picking players out of the draft. I mean how many 1st's pan out? I'd probably guess we're one of the very top teams at drafting. But I think most picks don't do that much for a team. Also I think we have been drafting a lot lately which is kind of abnormal for the suns. I think we have enough upincomers and it's time to get some quality veteran players in here or superstars...

Are the Suns just that much better than everyone else or just luckier? I think this year will be their biggest challenge yet because I am not excited about this draft after the top two players. It looks like the rest are all PG's, SF's and projects.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

George, every year around this time, people rarely like the draft past the last two kids.

The last draft that was pretty bad was 2000, but other than that, most drafts have produced nicely.

Honestly the suns are better than most teams. They have an incredible scouting department I would assume (even though their internation scout sounds dumb as a rock). Also, they are not afraid to risk players. A lot of picks they make go against the media/mainstream views on who they should choose. Off the top of my head, Thunder Dan, Shawn Marion, Michael Finley, Jake Tsakalides, Amare.

However, they don't just take risks on project players with lots of potential. They do their homework on them, extensively it would appear.

Possibly the biggest reason for suns success, they treat their draft picks as if they mean life for the franchise. Most players are made to feel at home in Phoenix, which is why a lot of people have respect for the Cs. Players have safety nets set up for them for their new lifestyle. The teammates take care of each other. Overall, it just appears that they handle almost every situation with the upmost caution.

Reading through different papers, and hearing about different organizations, I just don't think every other team caters to their rookies needs as much as the suns do. Not just iwth star picks either, it doesn't matter if a kid goes number 1 or number 29, they are all respected. IMO, that furthers their growth as an individual and a basketball player.

 

[Errntknght]

Have the Laker's announced they won't do a sign and trade for Kobe? It would seem they'd opt to get something for him if they could. The Suns could offer something like Marion and Eisley or White. JJ could slide over to SF. I like Vujanic/Barbosa, Kobe and JJ at 1-2-3 a lot better than JJ, Kobe, Marion - I really don't like making do without a PG. Besides signing Kobe as a FA creates a logjam at SG/SF and we'd have to move someone anyway. I'm not saying I'd do this trade, but it would happen in mid-summer and we'd have used our draft picks by then and we'd have had the rest of the season to sort things out a bit. Maybe we could trade both our picks and Clevelands owed future pick to the Cavs for their first rounder if there is a real center prospect. Also, by that time we'd have had the opportunity to explore trades for centers.

Frankly, trading Marion wouldn't bother me much. He does a lot of good things but I hate the way he's playing on offense... acting like an auxillary SG instead of a SF. He's probably helping his basketball longevity by hanging out on the perimeter all the time but we need a SF who doesn't shy away from contact. The way I see it, if Amare continues as a low post player then we'll probably play a high post center - and if Amare does a Chris Weber then we play low post center. In either case there's space for a SF working the baseline.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Errntknght
Have the Laker's announced they won't do a sign and trade for Kobe?

Yes.

 

[George O'Brien]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Errntknght
Have the Laker's announced they won't do a sign and trade for Kobe?

The Lakers have said they won't do a sign and trade. However, the statements by Phil Jackson about this being Shaq's team, etc. suggest they may be re-thinking that stance.