Possible JJ destinations:

[asudevil83]

well, that Bob Young thread suggested that the suns were looking at other possible JJ destinations. if it came down to the suns not wanted to pay JJ, and JJ willing to go to ANY other team than Atlanta (which only makes sense), then where could he go? i've thought up a couple of possibilities, which i admit arent that good.

JJ for Mashburn/Iggy - this saves the suns money, while also bringing in a young promising hometown stud. i dont think Philly would do this however, with large extended contracts going to Dally/Webber/Iverson still and an overpaid McKie.

JJ/Barbs for Livingston/Wilcox - doesnt make much sense for the clips as the pay almost double what it would have cost to keep Simmons, and must give up a future stud in the process. probably not realistic at all, but this solves the suns problems.

JJ for JR Smith/Claxton - here the suns get a nice backup PG, and a promising SG. JJ gives them a young guy to build a team around. i dont see New Orleans doing this though. they dumped a crap load of contracts to clear space, but have shown no interest in the FA period this offseason.

i know that their are probably a bunch more 3 team deals that could be swung, but i really dont feel like thinking them up right now.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I would do the Clips or the Hornets deal. I think a more plausible clips deal is the one that was mentioned in another thread with Jaric in a S&T and Wilcox for Joe.

What about a deal with Charlotte with Hart, Ely and Wallace in a S&T coming back?

It will probably have to be with a team that is under the cap due to BYC issues, so the Philly deal wouldn't be possible. I guess we could get a third team involved, although that makes things even trickier.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

well, that Bob Young thread suggested that the suns were looking at other possible JJ destinations. if it came down to the suns not wanted to pay JJ, and JJ willing to go to ANY other team than Atlanta (which only makes sense), then where could he go? i've thought up a couple of possibilities, which i admit arent that good.

JJ for Mashburn/Iggy - this saves the suns money, while also bringing in a young promising hometown stud. i dont think Philly would do this however, with large extended contracts going to Dally/Webber/Iverson still and an overpaid McKie.

JJ/Barbs for Livingston/Wilcox - doesnt make much sense for the clips as the pay almost double what it would have cost to keep Simmons, and must give up a future stud in the process. probably not realistic at all, but this solves the suns problems.

JJ for JR Smith/Claxton - here the suns get a nice backup PG, and a promising SG. JJ gives them a young guy to build a team around. i dont see New Orleans doing this though. they dumped a crap load of contracts to clear space, but have shown no interest in the FA period this offseason.

i know that their are probably a bunch more 3 team deals that could be swung, but i really dont feel like thinking them up right now.

I think most Suns fans would like to take the team that was 3 games from the finals....and simply improve on it. However....if there is ANY truth to the rumors that have been floating around (Sarver not willing to pay a bonus up front...despite it not significantly impacting the cap)....then I reluctantly offer the following:

1. JJ to the Clippers in return for Marco Jaric and Wilcox (NO WAY are they giving up Livingston). They may end up losing Marco for nothing anyway...and they have taken quite a beating in free agency lately (Kobe snubbing them last year and Simmons this year). They have free agent money to spend....and want to spend...but have simply been rejected. They would jump at the chance to give their fans some hope. Benefits to the Suns?
a) "Reject our offer??? Take that JJ....off to the Clippers with you"...
b) Marco is a 6'7" point guard who could provide valuable minutes of rest for Nash.
c) Wilcox would be a nice 3rd big behind KT and Amare...and they have been shopping him anyway. (His off court problems have been exaggerated...he has been a model citizen, giving hundreds of free game tickets to underprivaleged youngsters....he simply had a handgun in his car). I know it's illegal....but many of us have a handgun in our car (it's not domestic violence, DUI, or assault)...

2. JJ to Orlando for Tony Battie and Doug Christy. Doesn't save us a whole lot of $$$ this season, but both are expiring contracts. If we want to keep 'em we can...if we don't, we can dump them. Battie gives us a third big behind KT and Amare...Christy is still decent defensively.

3. JJ to New Orleans for Dan Dickau and Chris Anderson (they ain't giving up their young studs...period). We get a decent 3rd big, a backup point....and NO gets the scorer they desperately need....and we save $$$$$$.

4. Kevin Garnett to the Suns in return for our entire roster minus Nash, Amare, Jim Jackson, Raja Bell. I know it's unlikely (but as long as we are dreaming)...besides...Minny didn't make the playoffs last year even with Sprewell...they will tank this year. Shaq, Wade, and fill-ins made it to the Eastern Conference Finals...Kobe and Shaq did the same in the West...
Nash, Bell, Finley, KG, Amare, Payton, Jim Jackson, Hunter....and scrubs could have a pretty decent chance at winning it all...KG/Amare/Hunter in the paint...with 4 perimeter players who ALL shoot better than 40% from 3 point range...(meaning Minny would get Kurt Thomas, JJ, Voskuhl, Barbosa and Marion....we would get KG and salary cap / trade fodder). Stranger things have happened...who can honestly say that they thought Shaq could be traded?.....besides...this lineup would be under the luxury tax threshold for at least the next three years..............I know we are giving up a lot....but the deal would have to be something Minny would want...and any proposed deal would need to shed $$$ to avoid the luxury tax.

(Just rambling since everyone else in the free world seems to think we ain't gonna match JJ)...............................

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I hate your 2nd and third proposals. I would rather do a deal for Atlanta's crap than do that Orlando deal

If we are going to send him to a West team, we need to get a pretty good package in return. The Jaric/Wilcox package is about as small as I would be able to stomach.


Of course, like everyone else I just want the Suns to match Joe. The KG sentiments were brought up in the other thread I made a day or two ago.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I hate your 2nd and third proposals. I would rather do a deal for Atlanta's crap than do that Orlando deal

If we are going to send him to a West team, we need to get a pretty good package in return. The Jaric/Wilcox package is about as small as I would be able to stomach.


Of course, like everyone else I just want the Suns to match Joe. The KG sentiments were brought up in the other thread I made a day or two ago.

I'm right there with you....my first option would simply be to re-sign JJ. In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I was just trying to think of scenarios that other teams would consider....that were "legal" under the CBA...that shed $$$$$.....and that gave us something in return.

 

[playstation]

I'm right there with you....my first option would simply be to re-sign JJ. In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I was just trying to think of scenarios that other teams would consider....that were "legal" under the CBA...that shed $$$$$.....and that gave us something in return.

mr. acme rep, you've only been here a short while but you've quickly earned my respect with intelligent posts. props! how long you been a suns fan?

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

"mr. acme rep, you've only been here a short while but you've quickly earned my respect with intelligent posts. props! how long you been a suns fan?"




Thank you.

I've been a die-hard Suns fan since I moved to Scottsdale 4 years ago (before that I lived in Dallas and was a Mav fan).....yup....I'm a homer....I even root for the cursed Cardinals.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I was just trying to think of scenarios that other teams would consider....that were "legal" under the CBA...that shed $$$$$.....and that gave us something in return.

The Orlando idea wouldn't be legal since Joe would be BYC player.

 

[George O'Brien]

None of these deals get the Suns past the Spurs.

Trading a guy who was playing at an all star level for a couple of backups is not a sound strategy. When Barkley forced his way out of Philadelphia, the Suns gave up two starters and a then promising big man for one guy - and came out ahead. The Suns need to get at least one likely starter for any deal to have a ghost of a chance of making sense.

 

[cly2tw]

This is getting ridiculous.

If JJ is slightly overpaid at the max, he gotta fetch you much more than what you guys are proposing, or at least as much as Marion would. I thought people agreed that JJ is, or will be soon, more crucial to the team than Marion. At the very least you should consider both options, 1) Keep Marion, s-n-t JJ, 2) Match JJ, trade Marion, and compare the resulting lineups before you dump JJ for almost nothing.

For me, it's not important any of JJ and Marion be retained. All we need is another go-to scorer on the team next to Amare and Nash. So, if we keep JJ, he is that third go-to scorer. Then, trade Marion to NY for TimThomas and picks, to Orlando for Cato and Batie. I don't care.

However, if we dump JJ, I'd wanna get Maggett back, no useless Jaric, though Clipps wouldn't wanna give JJ a near-max contract anyway. So, moot point. For all other options, Josh Smith has that go-to guy potential but Atl might not wanna do that either. So, where is that 3rd go-to scorer? Maybe we could trade Marion and picks for Pierce if JJ were gone? In fact, I could see that Suns just do it: Use the full 7 days to find out whether we somehow could get Pierce for Marion + 2006 #1 + right for Vujanic or something; if we could, we'd just let JJ go; otherwise, we match and trade Marion for bigs and expiring contracts with picks later.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

"The Orlando idea wouldn't be legal since Joe would be BYC player. "

Nice catch.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Where is (D) none of the above?

Ok im going to find out the staus again tomorrow from Griff.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

"If JJ is slightly overpaid at the max, he gotta fetch you much more than what you guys are proposing, or at least as much as Marion would."




Most posts have alreay indicated that the first option would simply be to match JJ's offer and make a title run. The thread was a hypothetical "brainstorm" of possible destinations for JJ IF Sarver just doesn't want to resign JJ. Then, the problem isn't just finding equivalent talent in exchange.........it's also dumping enough salary to stay away from the luxury tax when Amare's max deal kicks in. Equitible talent exchange becomes more difficult when the first goal is to dump salary (see what the Suns gave up to dump Jahadi White's salary). Teams that have decent talent for a reasonable price aren't jumping at the opportunity to exchange equivalent talent for a higher price tag.

Hopefully this speculation will be unnecessary (if the Suns match).

 

[hcsilla]

What about a deal with Charlotte with Hart, Ely and Wallace in a S&T coming back?

I'm not sure that this package has more value than zero.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

yeah lets not forget the grass can be crap brown on the other side too.

 

[cly2tw]

"If JJ is slightly overpaid at the max, he gotta fetch you much more than what you guys are proposing, or at least as much as Marion would."




Most posts have alreay indicated that the first option would simply be to match JJ's offer and make a title run. The thread was a hypothetical "brainstorm" of possible destinations for JJ IF Sarver just doesn't want to resign JJ. Then, the problem isn't just finding equivalent talent in exchange.........it's also dumping enough salary to stay away from the luxury tax when Amare's max deal kicks in. Equitible talent exchange becomes more difficult when the first goal is to dump salary (see what the Suns gave up to dump Jahadi White's salary). Teams that have decent talent for a reasonable price aren't jumping at the opportunity to exchange equivalent talent for a higher price tag.

Hopefully this speculation will be unnecessary (if the Suns match).

Don't forget we still want to win a championship this year. Sarver is a business man who knows as well as you and me the value of having a title run again. If he didn't match, we should expect that the Suns had some viable alternatives. It's not about dumping salary per se. If it were, it'd be better to dump Marion's anyway. As fans, when we speculate, we gotta have this in mind to avoid making unnecessary worries that constantly get ourselves into bad moods.

 

[Chaz]

I think the Suns will put their best offer out to JJ.

If he signs the offer sheet with Atlanta they will match. I think the Suns knew in advance what it could cost them. They have prepared for it and will do what they said they would do.
If they have to trade Johnson or Marion next summer then that is that.

The squeeze of that contract and Amare's will not be put on the Suns until next season (06-07). By then we will see if JJ can live up to that contract and Marion can live up to his.

Hopefully with a little more depth we can make another run at a title before then.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I think the Suns will put their best offer out to JJ.

If he signs the offer sheet with Atlanta they will match. I think the Suns knew in advance what it could cost them. They have prepared for it and will do what they said they would do.
If they have to trade Johnson or Marion next summer then that is that.

The squeeze of that contract and Amare's will not be put on the Suns until next season (06-07). By then we will see if JJ can live up to that contract and Marion can live up to his.

Hopefully with a little more depth we can make another run at a title before then.

Man I hope so. As a diehard Suns fan I pee orange and bleed purple (figuratively).... the moratorium extension coupled with JJ's reported offer from Atlanta... added to the media "pundits" predictions of doom have made me a little paranoid. Perhaps it's the Bidwill syndrome...but I'd hate to see the success of last year flushed due to penny pinching.

 

[playstation]

I pee orange and bleed purple

i also had that happen one time. it turned out to be pretty serious, i was on meds for quite a while

 

[Billythekid]

I'm very anxious to see how this all pans out.

Do you guys think that, along with retaining JJ, we will keep Hunter? I would love Hunter back. He was a great addition and I'd hate to lose him to Minnesota! I loved how he bugged the hell out of KG. I don't want them on the same team.

Is keeping JJ AND Hunter realistic?

 

[Joe Mama]

Keep in mind that the other team in any sign and trade has to want JJ at 5 years/$70 million or more. They would probably have to be willing to pay his frontloaded contract as well. I mean if his first choice really was to come back to the Phoenix Suns he could always sign here without all of the front loading... assuming that truly is the big obstacle for Sarver.

In other words if he really does go ahead and sign the maximum contract offer from Atlanta it would seem that he really does want to play there. If the Phoenix Suns are going to sign and trade him to another team they'll have to find some place he would rather play. That doesn't seem like it should be a problem, but maybe he does want to go somewhere where he is clearly the top dog and is close to home.

Charlotte seems pretty frugal to me. The rumors have been that they want to save their free-agent money for next summer. New Orleans already has a few young swingmen they like. I don't think they would want to pay JJ $14 million per season. I also doubt the Clippers would want to pay him that much when they are already going to pay Mobley $8 million, and they have Maggette on the roster.

Unfortunately I think the Phoenix Suns and their fans are SOL if Sarver refuses to match Atlanta's offer. We could be looking at Diaw and some draft picks. I just don't see how he could renege on his assurances that they would match any offer for him at this point. There would be a major backlash from the fans, media, and probably several of the important players on the team. The comparisons to Donald Sterling would start immediately.

Joe

 

[cly2tw]

I'm not that worried at all, because I see the backbone of the Suns system as the Amare-Nash duo. With KT, Bell, JimJ, we have already 3 further complementary parts in place. If JJ were let go, I'd guess that we'd try to unload Marion either for more complementary pieces or a go-to guy like Pierce. And Finley might be willing to fill in the void also. We might not be as strong and exciting in the regular season as last year, but we'll have equal if not better chance in the playoffs.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not that worried at all, because I see the backbone of the Suns system as the Amare-Nash duo. With KT, Bell, JimJ, we have already 3 further complementary parts in place. If JJ were let go, I'd guess that we'd try to unload Marion either for more complementary pieces or a go-to guy like Pierce. And Finley might be willing to fill in the void also. We might not be as strong and exciting in the regular season as last year, but we'll have equal if not better chance in the playoffs.

if JJ is lost I think it's a mistake to count on Michael Finley playing here. I'm sure Dallas will do everything possible to prevent that. I definitely don't think he'll be released before the JJ ordeal is finished.

Joe Mama

 

[lancelet's cousin]

if JJ is lost I think it's a mistake to count on Michael Finley playing here. I'm sure Dallas will do everything possible to prevent that. I definitely don't think he'll be released before the JJ ordeal is finished.

Joe Mama

I think your right about Cuban's intentions. He says he hasn't reached the obvious decision of waiving Finley yet. But I suspect what he is doing is keeping him away from the Suns.

We try to keep the Hawks tied up with JJ while he is doing his best to keep us tied up with Finley. I do wonder if Sarver is waiting (possibly in vain) to see what happens to Fin, and that Cuban is too smart for that.

 

[cly2tw]

if JJ is lost I think it's a mistake to count on Michael Finley playing here. I'm sure Dallas will do everything possible to prevent that. I definitely don't think he'll be released before the JJ ordeal is finished.

Joe Mama

My trust for Suns success squarely rests on Amare-Nash. If we could get Pierce as the second go-to player, Finley would become our luxury if he did want to join the fun with his pal Nash.

Let's see. Sign-and-trade Joe to Atlanta for Diaw and 2 protected 1st-rounders. Trade Marion + picks to Boston for Pierce. Trade Jake, cash, and 2 2nd-rounders to Magic for Batie or Cato using the JJ trade exemption, as they won't play him much now with their rookie there. Sign Kemp to min. Payton for LLE. Our roster looks like:

C: KT/Kemp
PF: Amare/Batie(or Cato)
SF: JimJ/Diaw/Thompson
SG: Pierce/Bell/Graham
PG: Nash/Payton/Barbosa

That's 13 players already. So, add Ron Slay or any other min. bigman, we're ready for the title!