Post Draft: Good, Bad & Ugly

[Chopper0080]

A quick roster review post draft..

The Good: OL
-This has been a weak spot for the Cardinals for a long time. We have now added Bobby Massie, Nate Potter, Senio Kelemete, Jonathan Cooper and Earl Watford through the draft over the past two years. That is a ton of young talent added with draft resources (one 1st, two 4ths, one 5th and one 7th) that we haven't had on our roster in many years. Now, they haven't proven anything yet, but the potential at this position is very high.

The Bad: S
-I really like the Tyrann Mathieu pick. BUT, while he may be the best player in our secondary, he hasn't played football in over a year. That is a big deal. Other than him we are counting on Bell and Rashad Johnson to hold up the fort, or on an UDFA in Tony Jefferson. That spells trouble IMO. Now, I understand there are only so many needs you can address in one offseason, but that doesn't change the fact that this unit is fighting an uphill battle this year.

The Ugly: OLB
-My biggest issue with our draft is our pass rush. I liked the Okafer pick, but there is a reason he fell in the draft. While San Francisco was adding pass rushers, we were drafting 3-4 ILBs. OLB looks really bad right now with Acho, Schofield, Alexander, Shaughnessy and Okafer outside. Again, only so many needs can be addressed in one offseason, but this was a big one and we did very little to improve it. To make it worst, Shaun Phillips was signed over the weekend as well, so vet help is limited.

#

Ok, now before anyone hammers me for being negative, here is what I am very pleased with.

1-QB: We have better QB depth and personnel than we have had since Warner.

2-RB: We are no longer two injuries away from Powell or Smith being our RB. Personally, I think Stepfan Taylor is our 2014 starting RB, but that is my own homerism.

3-OL: See "the good."

4-CB: Peterson, Powers, Cason and Flemming should be an imrpovement over what we had last year. I would have liked to see the Cardinals take Jordan Poyer over Andre Ellington, but Poyer probably dropped for a reason. We are 4 deep at CB which is good as long as Flemming develops and Powers stays healthy.

 

[crisper57]

If the OL improves as much as we hope it will, everything else on that side of the ball improves without doing anything else. But wait, we did other stuff. We got a very good QB. We upgraded our RB depth. And our receiving corp is still the best in the Division. OL was holding everything else back and now we may get to see what a legit NFL OL can do for a team.

The pass rush will have to wait another year, apparently, but with the change in scheme, I look for Dockett to bounce back into the beast he really is. No longer will he be holding up blockers so others can make the play. They can just turn him loose. So I hope the pass rush is upgraded from within, I guess...

 

[bankybruce]

I have been worried about S as well, but then I came across this article and now I feel somewhat better.

http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...-Sparano/0e7b1a51-8379-4ee9-acfa-9cfcb6e7ad1a

During his third season with the Dolphins, Bowles led a secondary that ranked eighth in the NFL against the pass. He tutored a young unit with three starters from the team’s 2009 draft class in cornerbacks Vontae Davis and Sean Smith, and safety Chris Clemons. The other starting safety, Yeremiah Bell, represented the AFC in the 2010 Pro Bowl.

Prior to joining the Dolphins, Bowles had spent the previous three years as the secondary coach with the Dallas Cowboys. In Bowles’ three years in Dallas, three Cowboys defensive backs were chosen to a combined five Pro Bowls, including three by safety Roy Williams. In 2007, three-fourths of Dallas’ backfield was selected to the NFC All-Star squad, as cornerback Terence Newman and safety Ken Hamlin joined Williams in Honolulu. Over those three seasons (2005-07), the Cowboys as a team came up with 52 interceptions, tied for the third-highest total in the NFC.

 

[perivolaki]

The Ugly: OLB
-My biggest issue with our draft is our pass rush. I liked the Okafer pick, but there is a reason he fell in the draft. While San Francisco was adding pass rushers, we were drafting 3-4 ILBs. OLB looks really bad right now with Acho, Schofield, Alexander, Shaughnessy and Okafer outside. Again, only so many needs can be addressed in one offseason, but this was a big one and we did very little to improve it. To make it worst, Shaun Phillips was signed over the weekend as well, so vet help is limited.

I heard today on the radio that the reason Okafer fell was that their were some injury concerns.

Sometimes that can just come down to how your medical people evaluate the players health or chance of further injury.

 

[Duckjake]

I have been worried about S as well, but then I came across this article and now I feel somewhat better.

http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...-Sparano/0e7b1a51-8379-4ee9-acfa-9cfcb6e7ad1a

Bell is now 4 years older. Johnson hasn't done much since coming to the AZ. There's really nothing behind them. Sign this guy as a free agent and I'll feel better:

http://www.news-press.com/article/2...orey-Lynch-ready-waiting-right-NFL-agent-call

 

[bankybruce]

Bell is now 4 years older. Johnson hasn't done much since coming to the AZ. There's really nothing behind them. Sign this guy as a free agent and I'll feel better:

http://www.news-press.com/article/2...orey-Lynch-ready-waiting-right-NFL-agent-call

The point I was trying to make is that Bowles seems to have a good track record with the CB and S positions. I agree we need to add a good solid veteran, but if Bowles is comfortable with what is being put out there, I trust him since that artcile shows he has proven that is his area of strength.

 

[Totally_Red]

Hopefully Yeremiah Bell has another year in the tank. By all accounts he was a solid safety during his time in Miami and had a decent season with the Jets last season. I think he can play strong safety. The real question is whether Rashad Johnson is ready to play free safety.

Bell was 'serviceable' with the Jets, but of course they were grateful for any improvement over the nightmare named Eric Smith. And of course, the Jets did field the 8th ranked NFL defense measured by yards per game.

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/3/5/4067820/yeremiah-bell-stay-or-go

Yeremiah Bell quietly did a serviceable job at safety for the Jets this year. After the disaster that was 2011 safety play for the Jets, having the steady Bell back there was a nice change of pace.

I was never a huge fan of Bell's when he was in Miami so I was lukewarm when the Jets signed him. I was pleasantly surprised by what he brought to the table. The best compliment I could pay him is there were many games where I forgot he was there. Bell was not a huge impact guy, but he also avoided the Eric Smith type catastrophe a week that resulted in a monster play. Bell was solid as a run defender and did not hurt the Jets in coverage.

I am a bit conflicted on Bell. He did a fine job in 2012, but watching things over, I feel like having the rangy LaRon Landry partnering with him also limited what the Jets asked him to do. Landry was able to cover a lot of ground and take a lot of responsibilities. Bell's life was made easy.

 

[kerouac9]

Fair post. Here's my perspective:

On the OL: I'm excited to have Cooper in house, but let's not pretend that the Cards have had a tremendous infusion of talent, or will have come September. Tackle is still a problem if you don't believe that Levi Brown is at least serviceable (which I do). We've continued to hope that mid- to late-round picks will pan out. I'm more encouraged with the Warford pick, since he was a small-school guy who may have slipped through the cracks in a deep class from the big programs. I don't think that all of Warford, Potter, and Kelemete make the final 53 man roster. I think that one washes out.

On Honey Badger: I was concerned about him missing a full year of football, but Robert Quinn played in 15 games (1 start) and collected 5 sacks his rookie year with the Rams. His second year he had 14 starts (16 games) and 10.5 sacks.

Marvin Austin, Charles Brown, and the rest of that UNC class that took improper benefits haven't panned out as well, but it's not impossible.

I think that the risk as a 5th defensive back (and really 6th--he's not beating out Powers or Cason right away) and primarily special teams player is going to be that big a deal as he gets up to speed.

On rush linebackers: It's a horror show. I'm starting to wonder if this staff isn't gun shy about what to do. At some point, we're going to have to draft a rush linebacker and/or a quarterback very high. I think you're wrong about Carradine being a 3-4 OLB, but this team needs to figure out what they're looking for in these players, because good rush linebackers don't tend to reach free agency in the primes of their careers. I think the group we have can get the job done, but having 2 guys who can get 6 sacks each is not nearly as good as having one guy who can get 12 from a strategic standpoint.

 

[Chopper0080]

Fair post. Here's my perspective:

On the OL: I'm excited to have Cooper in house, but let's not pretend that the Cards have had a tremendous infusion of talent, or will have come September. Tackle is still a problem if you don't believe that Levi Brown is at least serviceable (which I do). We've continued to hope that mid- to late-round picks will pan out. I'm more encouraged with the Warford pick, since he was a small-school guy who may have slipped through the cracks in a deep class from the big programs. I don't think that all of Warford, Potter, and Kelemete make the final 53 man roster. I think that one washes out.

On Honey Badger: I was concerned about him missing a full year of football, but Robert Quinn played in 15 games (1 start) and collected 5 sacks his rookie year with the Rams. His second year he had 14 starts (16 games) and 10.5 sacks.

Marvin Austin, Charles Brown, and the rest of that UNC class that took improper benefits haven't panned out as well, but it's not impossible.

I think that the risk as a 5th defensive back (and really 6th--he's not beating out Powers or Cason right away) and primarily special teams player is going to be that big a deal as he gets up to speed.

On rush linebackers: It's a horror show. I'm starting to wonder if this staff isn't gun shy about what to do. At some point, we're going to have to draft a rush linebacker and/or a quarterback very high. I think you're wrong about Carradine being a 3-4 OLB, but this team needs to figure out what they're looking for in these players, because good rush linebackers don't tend to reach free agency in the primes of their careers. I think the group we have can get the job done, but having 2 guys who can get 6 sacks each is not nearly as good as having one guy who can get 12 from a strategic standpoint.

1-Indy carried 10 offensive linemen on their roster last year. While I don't think we carry that many, Brown, Massie, Cooper, Sendlein, Snyder, Colledge, Potter, Kelemete and Watford makes 9. Given that the staff may cut one of the vets for 2014 cap savings, I think the young pups are all safe.

2-Agreed. The unit is just really limited, and our S depth is terrible.

3-Maybe they found gold in Okafor, but I was shocked they waited until the 4th round to draft a rush LB. We may have disargeed on Carradine, but I believe we can agree that they had three different rush LB types available in round 2 (Carradine, Collins and Lemonier) and they passed on them all. I will wait until after next year's draft to see if they are gun shy on rush OLBs, but they definitely have shown they can't identify one as of yet.

 

[kerouac9]

1-Indy carried 10 offensive linemen on their roster last year. While I don't think we carry that many, Brown, Massie, Cooper, Sendlein, Snyder, Colledge, Potter, Kelemete and Watford makes 9. Given that the staff may cut one of the vets for 2014 cap savings, I think the young pups are all safe.

Yeah... I just dunno if the Cards are really going to start 3 first- or second-year offensive linemen, or carry 5 first- or second-year players on the active roster. That would make me uncomfortable, but I'm also a first-year coaching staff who probably isn't going to get fired because my young guys give up a half-dozen extra sacks.

 

[kerouac9]

On Safety Depth

I'm not really going to sweat not having 4 safeties that I know can play. Mathieu and Bethel are going to be fine, and I'll expect that one of Curtis Taylor (another LSU alum) or Jonathon Amaya sticks.

The question for me is whether Todd Bowles is going to run a one-high or two-high DB look most of the time. I don't trust looking at the late-season Philly tape, because it's impossible to know whether or not Bowles is executing his system, or just running whatever Castillo left behind that had been coached for the previous nine months.

If it's a one-high defense, then I'm comfortable that Rashad Johnson can play that position and not be a complete disaster. Combined with some help from Mathieu in passing situations, I think that's going to be fine.

Now, if we're going to play a two-deep defense, I think we're in a little more of a problem. Mostly because Bell and Johnson aren't that good, and they're going to be covering up for ILBs who aren't that great in coverage in either Minter or Brinkley.

We won't really know until the preseason.

 

[Lagerfilled]

I'd argue that the rookies will actually be as (if not more) prepared than some of the vets given all of the extra time they have under the new CBA to study and practice. Arians referenced it in earlier interviews how the rookies in Indy last year were able to prepare while the vets couldn't at certain times given the number of OTAs. It was proven in how they played last season. Therefore let's not underestimate the value of one-on-one time between the coaches and rookies this offseason. They'll be more than ready.

 

[Duckjake]

On rush linebackers: It's a horror show. I'm starting to wonder if this staff isn't gun shy about what to do. At some point, we're going to have to draft a rush linebacker and/or a quarterback very high. I think you're wrong about Carradine being a 3-4 OLB, but this team needs to figure out what they're looking for in these players, because good rush linebackers don't tend to reach free agency in the primes of their careers. I think the group we have can get the job done, but having 2 guys who can get 6 sacks each is not nearly as good as having one guy who can get 12 from a strategic standpoint.
__________________

This is still the most puzzling part of the 2013 draft. Why the Cards passed on Quanterus Smith for Stepfan Taylor.

Of course I'm still trying to figure out why they took Michael Floyd instead of my boy Whitney Mercilus last year.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd argue that the rookies will actually be as (if not more) prepared than some of the vets given all of the extra time they have under the new CBA to study and practice. Arians referenced it in earlier interviews how the rookies in Indy last year were able to prepare while the vets couldn't at certain times given the number of OTAs. It was proven in how they played last season. Therefore let's not underestimate the value of one-on-one time between the coaches and rookies this offseason. They'll be more than ready.

Be careful with these kinds of assumptions.

Indy was mediocre offensively and defensively. They turned the ball over in bunches, and failed to make turnovers. They were -12 in turnover differential last year.

They were 23rd in sacks allowed, 23rd in sacks created.

26th in yardage defense, 21st in scoring defense.

10th in yardage offense (good), 18th in scoring offense (not so good).

The 2012 Indianapolis Colts were a thoroughly average team who were gifted with an easy schedule and some fantastic lucky bounces.

They're nothing like a model franchise, and the organization that uses the 2012 Indianapolis Colts as a template are bound to have to reassess their goals going forward.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

A quick roster review post draft..

The Good: OL
-This has been a weak spot for the Cardinals for a long time. We have now added Bobby Massie, Nate Potter, Senio Kelemete, Jonathan Cooper and Earl Watford through the draft over the past two years. That is a ton of young talent added with draft resources (one 1st, two 4ths, one 5th and one 7th) that we haven't had on our roster in many years. Now, they haven't proven anything yet, but the potential at this position is very high.

The Bad: S
-I really like the Tyrann Mathieu pick. BUT, while he may be the best player in our secondary, he hasn't played football in over a year. That is a big deal. Other than him we are counting on Bell and Rashad Johnson to hold up the fort, or on an UDFA in Tony Jefferson. That spells trouble IMO. Now, I understand there are only so many needs you can address in one offseason, but that doesn't change the fact that this unit is fighting an uphill battle this year.

The Ugly: OLB
-My biggest issue with our draft is our pass rush. I liked the Okafer pick, but there is a reason he fell in the draft. While San Francisco was adding pass rushers, we were drafting 3-4 ILBs. OLB looks really bad right now with Acho, Schofield, Alexander, Shaughnessy and Okafer outside. Again, only so many needs can be addressed in one offseason, but this was a big one and we did very little to improve it. To make it worst, Shaun Phillips was signed over the weekend as well, so vet help is limited.

#

Ok, now before anyone hammers me for being negative, here is what I am very pleased with.

1-QB: We have better QB depth and personnel than we have had since Warner.

2-RB: We are no longer two injuries away from Powell or Smith being our RB. Personally, I think Stepfan Taylor is our 2014 starting RB, but that is my own homerism.

3-OL: See "the good."

4-CB: Peterson, Powers, Cason and Flemming should be an imrpovement over what we had last year. I would have liked to see the Cardinals take Jordan Poyer over Andre Ellington, but Poyer probably dropped for a reason. We are 4 deep at CB which is good as long as Flemming develops and Powers stays healthy.

Poyer got into a bar fight last year

 

[kerouac9]

This is still the most puzzling part of the 2013 draft. Why the Cards passed on Quanterus Smith for Stepfan Taylor.

Of course I'm still trying to figure out why they took Michael Floyd instead of my boy Whitney Mercilus last year.

I think it's because Keim prefers immediate contributors rather than burn draft capital on a guy who's an injury case. I think this is one reason that the team didn't draft Carradine, too.

November ACL tear probably means that he's not going to be able to participate this season, and it's hard to give up a full season of development on draft capital.

 

[Duckjake]

I think it's because Keim prefers immediate contributors rather than burn draft capital on a guy who's an injury case. I think this is one reason that the team didn't draft Carradine, too.

November ACL tear probably means that he's not going to be able to participate this season, and it's hard to give up a full season of development on draft capital.

I don't know though. When you have 9 draft picks four of them rounds 5-7 it's a perfect time to roll the dice on a player. After all isn't that what they're doing with Ellington?

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the OL improves as much as we hope it will, everything else on that side of the ball improves without doing anything else. But wait, we did other stuff. We got a very good QB. We upgraded our RB depth. And our receiving corp is still the best in the Division. OL was holding everything else back and now we may get to see what a legit NFL OL can do for a team.

The pass rush will have to wait another year, apparently, but with the change in scheme, I look for Dockett to bounce back into the beast he really is. No longer will he be holding up blockers so others can make the play. They can just turn him loose. So I hope the pass rush is upgraded from within, I guess...

The improvements on the offensive side of the ball are immense. The running back situation last year was horrible due to injury. It eliminated most ground game options and made the pass easy to defend. Our QB situation made it even easier. Add to that an offensive line that faced a major injury, overall lack of talent, and no element of surprise, and you have a perfect storm for failure.

Even marginal improvement in each of these areas can make world of difference.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know though. When you have 9 draft picks four of them rounds 5-7 it's a perfect time to roll the dice on a player. After all isn't that what they're doing with Ellington?

I think that Ellington makes the team, and Ryan Williams is really the guy that's on the bubble (along with Anthony Sherman, of course). When Arians and Keim were discussing the "unique" play of Andre Ellington, it reminded me of what they said about Williams when he was drafted.

 

[MadCardDisease]

On rush linebackers: It's a horror show. I'm starting to wonder if this staff isn't gun shy about what to do. At some point, we're going to have to draft a rush linebacker and/or a quarterback very high. I think you're wrong about Carradine being a 3-4 OLB, but this team needs to figure out what they're looking for in these players, because good rush linebackers don't tend to reach free agency in the primes of their careers. I think the group we have can get the job done, but having 2 guys who can get 6 sacks each is not nearly as good as having one guy who can get 12 from a strategic standpoint.

That is a big concern of mine. We are still in need of a stud pass rusher. On one hand I really like the guys the Cardinals drafted. However they were all really safe picks at positions that typically are not as hard to fill.

We still don't know if Keim and BA can draft impact players at key positions like OT, Pash Rusher, and QB. Those are your money makers right there and they are very difficult to find.

Still it makes sense to take players you are very confident with in your first draft. They filled a lot of holes with some very good young talent. You are going to need these guys to be productive from day one and they will be the foundation of your team for the next few years.

 

[kerouac9]

That is a big concern of mine. We are still in need of a stud pass rusher. On one hand I really like the guys the Cardinals drafted. However they were all really safe picks at positions that typically are not as hard to fill.

We still don't know if Keim and BA can draft impact players at key positions like OT, Pash Rusher, and QB. Those are your money makers right there and they are very difficult to find.

Still it makes sense to take players you are very confident with in your first draft. They filled a lot of holes with some very good young talent. You are going to need these guys to be productive from day one and they will be the foundation of your team for the next few years.

Are they really that difficult to find? Really?

How many really top-shelf pass rushers are there in the NFL? 20? Two dozen? More? I bet you could name 15 "top" rush ends and linebackers off the top of your head without trying.

Same with quarterbacks. At least half the teams in the NFL have guys that you'd be confident imagining leading a team to the playoffs--maybe more than that.

LT is a little harder. There's definitely fewer "elite" guys than there was a decade ago, but three-quarters of the NFL finds guys that aren't totally embarrassing to run out there.

I think the reason that the Cards haven't been able to find those guys is because they're been cowardly in actually grading them out for that level. The last top quarterback, tackle, and pass rusher we drafted were Matt Leinart, Levi Brown, and Cody Brown.

Maybe with that embarrassing track record the staff is right to be a little gun shy, but this isn't going to become a consistently competitive football team until the organization is ready to step up to the plate on these kinds of guys again.

And this isn't saying anything really about this particular draft class. I think that Minter and Cooper were perfectly defensible picks. But drafting the WR last year instead of a rush linebacker prospect was total cowardice.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This is still the most puzzling part of the 2013 draft. Why the Cards passed on Quanterus Smith for Stepfan Taylor.

Of course I'm still trying to figure out why they took Michael Floyd instead of my boy Whitney Mercilus last year.

I'm with you on both counts.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Maybe with that embarrassing track record the staff is right to be a little gun shy, but this isn't going to become a consistently competitive football team until the organization is ready to step up to the plate on these kinds of guys again.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Until they start drafting those important positions we can't fully evaluate them.

 

[MWOOD92]

The Bad: S
-I really like the Tyrann Mathieu pick. BUT, while he may be the best player in our secondary, he hasn't played football in over a year. That is a big deal. Other than him we are counting on Bell and Rashad Johnson to hold up the fort, or on an UDFA in Tony Jefferson. That spells trouble IMO. Now, I understand there are only so many needs you can address in one offseason, but that doesn't change the fact that this unit is fighting an uphill battle this year.

And to think Phillip Thomas fell right into our lap with our second 4th round pick

I'm really hoping Earl Watford pulls through.

 

[Duckjake]

I think that Ellington makes the team, and Ryan Williams is really the guy that's on the bubble (along with Anthony Sherman, of course). When Arians and Keim were discussing the "unique" play of Andre Ellington, it reminded me of what they said about Williams when he was drafted.

I'm not talking about Ellington's talent but the concerns over his concussions.

the Cardinals added Clemson running back Andre Ellington in the sixth. ... who was off many boards due to concussions but is worth gamble so late in draft.

Comparing the injury risk that you mentioned with Smith.