Post SA game thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His Atlanta years should never be considered in any discussion about Boris Diaw. Come on.

given that he's looked a lot like his atlanta years this year, i say they are completely relevant.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I absolutely agree. Their defense was pretty good today, but we also missed some very makeable shots throughout the game.

yeah, but i attribute the misses to us being weak-minded and intimidated. they played like they thought they were going to miss. they rushed shots. it was pathetic.

i place the blame for this loss on a number of things:

1 - coach d. got outcoached. i didn't see many counters to pop's moves. if bowen is guarding nash it has to create a mismatch elsewhere. i don't recall seeing that exploited ever. also i agree that kt needed more burn. his d on duncan was just about the best d i've ever seen on duncan. 14 mins? not enough in a defensive game (and that's what it was and there was no hope of turning it into anything other than that and dantoni failed to recognize it, or was stubborn enough to change - either way, both are terrible traits for a coach).

2 - nash. yeah, i know blasphemy! i'm not blaming his shot or his turnovers. i'm blaming him for the fact that dantoni didn't react, and thus it falls on nash's shoulders to find something, and he didn't. that's unfortunately part of our system. we are sooo nash reliant and when he can't crack an opponent we're dead. also i didn't think he was aggressive enough with his own shot. bowen is a great defender (and cheats), but he was on a bad peg and he's not as quick as nash. nash should have been drawing fouls on him left and right.

3 - diaw's a puss.

4 - amare had little to no fire. this was not the amare that dismantled the spurs two years ago (nor do i expect that amare), but this was also not the motivated amare that pulled down 23 boards in their last meeting. his comment that he "couldn't do anything b/c of the 7-footers down there" scares the crap outta me 'cuz it means he's allowing that to be an excuse.

5 - ames ones. would be nice if he had a j when it counted.

6 - barbs. and this one i say with a caveat. i don't think barbs was intimidated. though he doesn't have a mean streak i no longer think of him as weakminded. but he's still not skilled enough outside of scoring to be a positive at times. down 4 he drove the lane and drew 3 defenders, including duncan. did he really think he had a chance at finishing that? if you watch the replays amare rolled to the basket and was ready to receive a pass which would have been flushed. i have no doubt that if we closed to 2 we would have won. moreover, the kid just can't play defense. i realize that parker schools everyone, but barbs has got 2 - 3 inches on him, and parker STILL posted him up. ridiculous.

i'm actually going to give marion props in this game. was he great? no. was he nonexistant through the beginning of the game? yeah. but he also showed up at the end and didn't play the usually frightened marion that i'm accustomed to seeing against the spurs (though that runner at the end was atrocious). i'm likely giving him too much credit as bowen covered nash most of the game, thereby freeing up marion a bit.

i also thought that raja played inspired. his work on the boards and defense was terrific. he also adjusted to the spurs elimination of the 3 point line and took better closer shots rather than become a statue.

overall i don't think we'll play this poorly again. at least, not for an entire series with the spurs. but that said, i think these spurs are still in the suns' collective heads. and they are the team about which i worry most. i just don't see us moving past them again this year. and that's killing me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i agree. if the spurs want to bank on us shooting 18% from 3-point land, 34% from the field. 70% from the line, and amare shooting something like 35% from the floor, then they got another thing coming. sure they played defense, but their d looks even better when we miss shots that we should be making, and when amare plays like he is in high school again.

the free throws will improve. the three point shooting likely won't. they play our shooters like no other team in the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right on Chaplin! I'm tired of people writing Diaw off...its getting stupid now. The guy is way too smart and talented to be written off so easlily. Barbosa (and even Joe Johnson) had ups and downs and they came around.

Well Chaplin I guess we'll be the odd couple cheering Diaw on against the waves of discontentment but we'll be laughing last when Boris turns it up come playoffs....GUARANTEED.

i love people that use the word "guaranteed" (particularly in ALL CAPS). what are you guaranteeing? do some of us get something from you if (and when) boris fails? it's just plain stupid.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The refs were just a mess tonight (both ways), and slowed the game down, which really hurts the Suns, that won't happen every night in a 7 game series. Furthermore, the Spurs are getting old. Big Shot Bob I no longer fear. Finley can't hit anything unless he's standing still and wide open. Oberto and Elson aren't anything to write home about. My biggest concern is Tony Parker, the Suns never even slow him down.

completely agree about the refs. they were god-awful. not just for the suns, but the whole game. i don't think the officiating was one-sided, i just think it was about the worst officiating i've ever seen at the pro level. and that undoubtedly does NOT favor the suns who want things to be more free-flowing.

the problem with what you say about fins is the fact that we regularly double off him (unless KT is on the floor, which is unfortunately never long enough). so he DOES get to stand still while wide open.

oberto and elson's defense astounded me. how can amare not tool on those guys? how can boris not drive by them? that's a killer if we can't take advantage of them.

and parker. we can do nothing. i'm glad coach d abandoned the stupidity of putting marion on him. he blew by marion like marion was standing still time and time again. that defense works against cassell and no one else.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

whew, i think i got all of that outta my system!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well Chaplin I guess we'll be the odd couple cheering Diaw on against the waves of discontentment but we'll be laughing last when Boris turns it up come playoffs....GUARANTEED.

this paragraph just makes me shake my head. Do you really think that because people are dissappointed with Diaw that they won't be cheering him on, hoping he turns it around? Of course they will, they're just not going to get their hopes up. As far as getting the last laugh - if you're right, EVERYONE will be laughing as that likely means we will have won the title and everyone will be on cloud 9, although, I guess if you're so vain that being right will make you feel that much better than us, that's your problem, not ours.

 

[msdundee]

the free throws will improve. the three point shooting likely won't. they play our shooters like no other team in the league.

The Spurs are a great defensive team. The Suns missed 8 free throws (note: no defenders on FTs) and lost by 7. SA smothered the 3's but the Suns still got some good looks and missed shot after shot, some of them layups that should have gone. Nobody looked all that sharp last night -- Amare hit 2 of his first 10, even Nash lacked the decisiveness he usually shows. Raja seemed to be the only one who knew what he was doing, especially on the boards.

Compare this to the 2/1 Suns-Spurs game and I don't think it was just a matter of the last game being on our court. That night the Suns played with some spirit and the Spurs caved in the last quarter. Last night the 4thQ run wasn't enough to make up for the dismal effort in the first three but it did bring them close and the final score was respectable, even though it did mask how poorly the Suns played most of the night.

It's not likely the Suns will have many games that funky, even against the Spurs -- and the Spurs know that. I don't completely agree that this gives SA a mental edge that can't be overcome. Being up 3-1 gave the Lakers a huge mental edge last year and it somehow woke everyone up. Granted the Lakers aren't on a level with the Spurs, but for some reason our "can't-do-it, overachieving, showboating" Suns seem to thrive on adversity. I do think SA would be their biggest challenge in a 7-game series but I also know they can and would make it a good fight.

 

[Chaplin]

given that he's looked a lot like his atlanta years this year, i say they are completely relevant.

How is that? This is the first year in his entire career (including international play in France) where he had a player like Amare Stoudemire to play alongside with. I definitely am disappointed in him this year, but to treat him like he's a waste and equal to his Atlanta days is way too overboard IMO.

In Atlanta, he was used as a point guard, and very sporadically, I have to point out, so how does him playing in Atlanta have ANYTHING whatsoever with Boris Diaw the Phoenix Sun playing on a team like the Phoenix Suns?

 

[elindholm]

In Atlanta, he was used as a point guard, and very sporadically, I have to point out, so how does him playing in Atlanta have ANYTHING whatsoever with Boris Diaw the Phoenix Sun playing on a team like the Phoenix Suns?

Because his problems in Atlanta had to do with his lack of aggression and general mental sloppiness, not what position he played or who his teammates were or weren't.

You know who else was great for the Suns in last year's playoffs? Tim Thomas. But everyone cried "Contract Year!" and swore he'd never perform again. Well, Diaw was in a contract year too. And now, Thomas is putting up the same numbers that he did last year, for half as much money as Diaw, who has disappeared.

I'm not criticizing anyone for having been hoodwinked, since I was too. It's just time for all of us to start admitting it.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not criticizing anyone for having been hoodwinked, since I was too. It's just time for all of us to start admitting it.

You need to get a puppy or something, Eric. If we go halfway through next season and he isn't performing, then I'll jump on your negativity bandwagon. But if he performs well in the playoffs (still possible, however much your expert opinion on him is the contrary), then hopefully that will change your tune a bit.

You've admitted to yourself that Diaw is a bust and a bad player. More power to you. Just don't talk down to us about how we can't "admit" that Boris isn't a good player.

 

[elindholm]

Just don't talk down to us about how we can't "admit" that Boris isn't a good player.

I'm not, or at least not any more than you are talking down to me about my "negativity bandwagon." We have a difference of opinion -- does that automatically make one of us a child?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How is that? This is the first year in his entire career (including international play in France) where he had a player like Amare Stoudemire to play alongside with. I definitely am disappointed in him this year, but to treat him like he's a waste and equal to his Atlanta days is way too overboard IMO.

In Atlanta, he was used as a point guard, and very sporadically, I have to point out, so how does him playing in Atlanta have ANYTHING whatsoever with Boris Diaw the Phoenix Sun playing on a team like the Phoenix Suns?

you're blowing it outta proportion. a "waste??" no. just not a positive on a regular basis. i'm not even saying i want him to be the level of last year's playoff, i just don't want him to be nothing or worse yet, like yesterday, an overall negative, for the team.

and don't give me the "first year with amare" crap. seems that marion, nash, barbs, blah, blah, blah all find a way to contribute. diaw doesn't. and now it's been a whole freaking season during which he's had the opp to find his place and he still hasn't. that's pretty damning evidence in my humble opinion.

and i'm not talking about the position that he played here and there, i'm talking about his passivity and lack of fire. my god, that doesn't even adequately describe how piss poor he's been on the court. i cannot even summon up the proper words to describe how little he provides right now. and every 4th game just ain't cutting it.

 

[Ballamania]

i like boris' potential but i'll tell you, his inconsistency makes smoke come out of my ears. i mean, he has had plenty of time to get himself together. he cant BUY a jumper to save his life. he still overpasses and this new walking twice a game thing is ridiculous. honestly, i dont know what the hell is wrong with him and neither does ANYBODY here unless they know him or live with him. bottom line, he has been dissappointing for the most part this year but i hope somehow his disinterested looking self will contribute much more than he has. i wouldnt call him a bust but he was the one that set the tone and expectation with last years play and now he doesnt look like that player with or without amare. he is supposed to be versatle so i wont let him off the hook with the amare thing anyway. he can adjust and at least hit SOME jumpers and be aggresive. he is a pro and needs to step it up or else the suns will suffer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You need to get a puppy or something, Eric. If we go halfway through next season and he isn't performing, then I'll jump on your negativity bandwagon. But if he performs well in the playoffs (still possible, however much your expert opinion on him is the contrary), then hopefully that will change your tune a bit.

You've admitted to yourself that Diaw is a bust and a bad player. More power to you. Just don't talk down to us about how we can't "admit" that Boris isn't a good player.

chap, you've had a whole season. you really think another half season changes anything? why? give me your theory on why 123 games is better than 82 games?

bad player? naw. unmotivated, lazy, nonpassionate player? seems like it more and more.

btw, the big knock on tim thomas that everyone hung their hat on when we let him go was that he underperforms during the season and turns it up in the playoffs. and now that's exactly what you're HOPING for with diaw? funny.

 

[green machine]

I think Diaw is passionate and motivated he is just passive. One of the things that was great about him last year is that it seemed like nothing phased him on the court, that nothing could get to him. That he was calm out there no matter the situation. That is still the case, although with the inconsistent play now it just looks like he doesn't care.

 

[Ballamania]

the only reason i have a little hope for Boris is joe johnson. boston thought he was too passive and didnt have enough fire. they though he wouldnt develop and then he comes to phoenix and blossoms. just like joe, boris has the tools, he just needs to put it together mentally. i mean, he's still young but damn, regression is tough to take for a fan. a coach would be fired for that kind of step back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the only reason i have a little hope for Boris is joe johnson. boston thought he was too passive and didnt have enough fire. they though he wouldnt develop and then he comes to phoenix and blossoms. just like joe, boris has the tools, he just needs to put it together mentally. i mean, he's still young but damn, regression is tough to take for a fan. a coach would be fired for that kind of step back.

agreed. i'm not closing the book on boris. what i'm saying is his regression could cost us the title this year. last year's boris on this team would crush most teams and pick up the slack if amare was having an off night (like last night). last night's diaw fumbled the ball every opportunity he got, didn't take advantage of mismatches, and allowed whomever he was guarding to use him like a feminine hygeine product.

 

[Chaplin]

chap, you've had a whole season. you really think another half season changes anything? why? give me your theory on why 123 games is better than 82 games?

bad player? naw. unmotivated, lazy, nonpassionate player? seems like it more and more.

btw, the big knock on tim thomas that everyone hung their hat on when we let him go was that he underperforms during the season and turns it up in the playoffs. and now that's exactly what you're HOPING for with diaw? funny.

Boris had 2 full seasons with Atlanta, and since you're all including those 2 seasons, how is this much different. We know that Boris Diaw has the capability to play like he did last year. We knew it when we traded for him, apparently, even though he went 2 years doing nothing.

You guys are freaking out about him for no reason. Like you, I'm not satisfied with the way he has played, but if we gave him 2 years of doing nothing in order to place the value we did on him, why do we have to go only one season to proclaim him a bust?

 

[Chaplin]

agreed. i'm not closing the book on boris. what i'm saying is his regression could cost us the title this year. last year's boris on this team would crush most teams and pick up the slack if amare was having an off night (like last night). last night's diaw fumbled the ball every opportunity he got, didn't take advantage of mismatches, and allowed whomever he was guarding to use him like a feminine hygeine product.

Now, this paragraph I pretty much agree with. I think Diaw's performance in the playoffs is KEY to this team winning a title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Now, this paragraph I pretty much agree with. I think Diaw's performance in the playoffs is KEY to this team winning a title.

I agree and think that's BAD news - I'm praying that Diaw comes around, but I just see nothing in him THIS year that leads me to believe that will happen. I think we'll get what we've been getting all year long, a good game out of him, 1 out of every 6 games and a heap load of frustration the rest of the time.

 

[Ballamania]

not a BUST, just not doing what we thought he would be doing. i also dont see where we are "freaking out". just stating that he has not lived up to expectation and it will cost us. then again maybe we should just be like its ok Boris. keep playing that way and we wont complain no matter if you have 3 turnovers, 5 points,1 rebound and two assists. we should not even mention that on our discussion board because its not fair to you. we need an excuse for your play Boris so we're sorry. you are a cool , nice guy though.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree and think that's BAD news - I'm praying that Diaw comes around, but I just see nothing in him THIS year that leads me to believe that will happen. I think we'll get what we've been getting all year long, a good game out of him, 1 out of every 6 games and a heap load of frustration the rest of the time.

Well, since he returned from his back problem, about every other game or so, he puts in a performance that is fairly close to what we need. The problem is putting a string of them in a row.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, since he returned from his back problem, about every other game or so, he puts in a performance that is fairly close to what we need. The problem is putting a string of them in a row.

actually, he came back from his back problem and put together a pretty solid little run, but the last 7 games he's been horrific in 5 games and very good in
two - I think that's right along the time that DA went into scramble mode and starting tinkering with the lineups.

I just think DA has no idea what to do right now to get us back to playing the way we did during the streaks and his rotations and jerking around is really just killing this team. Well, that and the fact that we just don't look fresh, maybe a little burned out by playing 7-8 guys all season long. You see it once in a while (the Dallas game was a shining example), but I just haven't seen this team RUN since the All-Star break.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Now, this paragraph I pretty much agree with. I think Diaw's performance in the playoffs is KEY to this team winning a title.

It would help a ton, but I think the real reason we lost last night was due to Barbosa's play. When Barbo is on, he is an unstoppable force both inside and out. He stretches out the D and makes plenty of big shots. Last night, both Barbo and Stat didn't play well and we lost.

San Antonio is a very good team and a bitch for us to play, but I really believe we are too talented to lose to them in a 7 game series. Hopefully the Suns aren't buying into themselves too much and have the energy to fight through a tough drawn out series. I don't see a Suns-Spurs series going any less than 6 games.