Prediction time

[asudevil83]

if the suns are looking to move up in the draft, and are willing to use barbosa as bait...then why not a trade like this:

Suns Trade: Barbosa+#21
Suns Recieve: #13

Grizz Trade: #19
Grizz Receive: Barbosa

Bobcats Trade: #13
Bobcats Recieve: #19+#21

the suns move up in the draft.
the grizz are shopping both the #19 and Jason Williams. Barbosa kinda fits in well with the plan.
the bobcats are building their team through the draft....and here they get two picks in a decently deep one.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Again I am not saying he should be the pick, I just think he will be the pick if available. All the talk about "stashing" a euro lately really has me thinking that is the route they will go.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The thing about predicting who will be drafted is that there is almost no objective information to use to make your prediction.

Sites like NBA Draft are always full of quotes from GM's and other team officials. These guys are notorious for spreading disinformation and just plain lying about players. Teams intentionally audition tons of players to throw each other off and every agent in the world is out pimpin his client to anybody that will listen.

If you read these message boards you get subjective opinions from people that have watched a certain player in their home town or have followed a certain college team and watched a guy play but how do you put all this together and make a prediction that means anything?

I predict that the SUns will draft the best player available at #21 since they have actually seen every guy in the draft play and have the information necessary to formulate an objective opinion.

I am just going by the Suns well documented love affair with Martynas.

 

[devilalum]

I am just going by the Suns well documented love affair with Martynas.

Haven't the Suns been rumored to be in love with guys in the past then passed on them when the time came to take someone else?

I remember it was rumored that the Suns were in love with Nene but after they drafted Amare they were all high fiven and said Amare was their guy all along.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Haven't the Suns been rumored to be in love with guys in the past then passed on them when the time came to take someone else?

I remember it was rumored that the Suns were in love with Nene but after they drafted Amare they were all high fiven and said Amare was their guy all along.

I repeatedly stated prior to the draft Amare was their guy. They scouted him heavily and he shut his workouts down right after that.

I would like to think the same thing about Diogu, but it has also been well reported that Diogu's workout was terrible and he was just destroyed by Petro.

The Suns have liked MA since their days of helping with the Lithunian national team.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am having total deja vu about this prediction and my prediction that Zarko would be the pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't see why the Suns would want to move up in the draft unless there is an absolute star quality player they want. In this draft, the Suns would be better served to move down in the draft and pick up more picks considering the depth of this draft and the expanded roster.

If Barbosa could fetch the Suns another #1 pick (I'd have to admit) I would be inclined to bite. I'd take #19 for Barbosa.

A very good ballplayer could fall to #19.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I can't see why the Suns would want to move up in the draft unless there is an absolute star quality player they want. In this draft, the Suns would be better served to move down in the draft and pick up more picks considering the depth of this draft and the expanded roster.

If Barbosa could fetch the Suns another #1 pick (I'd have to admit) I would be inclined to bite. I'd take #19 for Barbosa.

A very good ballplayer could fall to #19.

I am not really a fan of giving up on Barbosa so easily. He has tons of potential. Just look what being patient with JJ got us.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think there is very good chance that the Suns will trade down. One guy that looks to be available in the early 2nd is Ryan Gomes:

College Hoops - Ryan Gomes

[email protected]

NBA Draft Profile: Ryan Gomes
College: Providence

Class: Senior

Stats: ESPN Statistics
Height: 6-7
Weight: 240 lbs.

Accolades: 2004 First-Team All-American

Scouting Report:

Great all-around game… a scoring threat from anywhere on the court… very under-rated passer… competes hard on the glass… floats around the perimeter too much… team’s Big East record calls into question his leadership skills

Strengths: Versatility, shooting, passing
Weaknesses: Leadership

Projected Draft Range: Late 1st Round to Early 2nd Round

“It’s hard to imagine how Providence managed to lose so many games with Gomes scoring 20 points and hauling down 8 rebounds on a consistent basis. After his workouts in contemplation of last year’s draft, Gomes certainly decided to take his game in a more expanded direction. He lost some weight, and looked better than ever heading into the season, and improved his outside shot to prove to scouts he could score in other ways than just showing off his touch down low. After not hitting a single three in his first two seasons, Gomes had developed his range to the point that he shot 38% from behind the arc. He’s probably one of the most overlooked guys in the draft, and is sitting on the 1st Round fence. For my taste, I’d take Gomes over other college players like Simien or Garcia. Gomes does not have the potential to ever be a star in the NBA, but he could be a valuable asset for a team that needs offensive help in the half-court.”

 

[Mainstreet]

I am not really a fan of giving up on Barbosa so easily. He has tons of potential. Just look what being patient with JJ got us.

I like Barbosa as a person alot. He really seems to possess a great attitude and he is young.

I supported keeping JJ as I felt he had a very high ceiling. I just don't get the same feel for Barbosa. IMO, he's a tweener guard (combo guard if you like), and I really do not see the same high ceiling for him. He just does not seem to have PG instincts which seems to be a more natural instinct for some players. I would have expected more development from this young man or at least significant flashes of where I would feel... he's going to be our future PG.

I just do not see it happening. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think there is very good chance that the Suns will trade down. One guy that looks to be available in the early 2nd is Ryan Gomes:

College Hoops - Ryan Gomes

I wouldn't be upset with this selection as long as the Suns get Nate Robinson as well.

 

[George O'Brien]

I like Barbosa as a person alot. He really seems to possess a great attitude and he is young.

I supported keeping JJ as I felt he had a very high ceiling. I just don't get the same feel for Barbosa. IMO, he's a tweener guard (combo guard if you like), and I really do not see the same high ceiling for him. He just does not seem to have PG instincts which seems to be a more natural instinct for some players. I would have expected more development from this young man or at least significant flashes of where I would feel... he's going to be our future PG.

I just do not see it happening. I hope I'm wrong.

Leandro's main problem is that he was playing on a 62 win team built around the absolutely unique skills of Steve Nash. Nash in his first years would not have been much more successful backing up the 2004-05 Steve Nash. Nash in his first year in Dallas was routinely booed by Mavs fans in his third season and Nash had four years of college.

Personally, I think "instincts" are overrated. What appears to be "instinct" is usually the result of lots of practice and game experience. Even the supposedly instinctive rookie point guards usually come to the NBA with years and years of experience. Ridnour did not look that good last season and he had four years of college.

I don't know how good Leandro might become, but I do know that the stuff he needs is stuff that can be taught (mostly). What can't be taught is his amazing quickness, leaping ability, extremely long arms, and enthusiasm. if you are going to trade away a draft pick on a guy based on his potential, the least you can do is give him a chance to develop it rather than give him away.

 

[sunsfn]

Leandro's main problem is that he was playing on a 62 win team built around the absolutely unique skills of Steve Nash. Nash in his first years would not have been much more successful backing up the 2004-05 Steve Nash. Nash in his first year in Dallas was routinely booed by Mavs fans in his third season and Nash had four years of college.

Personally, I think "instincts" are overrated. What appears to be "instinct" is usually the result of lots of practice and game experience. Even the supposedly instinctive rookie point guards usually come to the NBA with years and years of experience. Ridnour did not look that good last season and he had four years of college.

I don't know how good Leandro might become, but I do know that the stuff he needs is stuff that can be taught (mostly). What can't be taught is his amazing quickness, leaping ability, extremely long arms, and enthusiasm. if you are going to trade away a draft pick on a guy based on his potential, the least you can do is give him a chance to develop it rather than give him away.

Great post George...

The thing we sometimes forget, is that it takes 3 years on the average for drafted players to contribute a lot. Obviously some can contribute right away but most do not, even the college ones. Barbosa had the language barrier to overcome also, and he is a player that can finish around the basket, where some players never can do that.

-

 

[KANIDJA]

Mile Ilic

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Failing that they will take Johan Petro, who reportedly destroyed Diogu in his workout for the Suns.

Did I miss that? I know they brought Petro in to see how Ike would do against a taller player, but I didn't hear that he was destroyed.

Anyways, I think that Ike is their guy at 21. Garcia if they move up to the 15 range. Graham if they move up higher.

I repeatedly stated prior to the draft Amare was their guy. They scouted him heavily and he shut his workouts down right after that.

I would like to think the same thing about Diogu, but it has also been well reported that Diogu's workout was terrible and he was just destroyed by Petro.

Taking away his workout, the Ike situation is almost identical. 2 workouts, then shut down. I am almost positive Ike wasn't sick at all, I saw him at school last week and he was fine.

 

[Mainstreet]

Leandro's main problem is that he was playing on a 62 win team built around the absolutely unique skills of Steve Nash. Nash in his first years would not have been much more successful backing up the 2004-05 Steve Nash. Nash in his first year in Dallas was routinely booed by Mavs fans in his third season and Nash had four years of college.

Personally, I think "instincts" are overrated. What appears to be "instinct" is usually the result of lots of practice and game experience. Even the supposedly instinctive rookie point guards usually come to the NBA with years and years of experience. Ridnour did not look that good last season and he had four years of college.

I don't know how good Leandro might become, but I do know that the stuff he needs is stuff that can be taught (mostly). What can't be taught is his amazing quickness, leaping ability, extremely long arms, and enthusiasm. if you are going to trade away a draft pick on a guy based on his potential, the least you can do is give him a chance to develop it rather than give him away.

Nothing would please me more than for me to be wrong in regard to Leandro. I find it difficult to remember a nicer young man coming to the Suns with the great smile and a tremendous upside. However, I am only giving you my opinion. Who wouldn't be happy keeping Leandro on this team? I know I would (but not at the expense of possibly improving this team).

Yes, drafting is a roll of the dice in regard to potential but after watching Leandro play for two years that's just about all I'm still seeing (potential). His propensity to turn the ball over and make bad decisions on the fastbreak worry me the most. Yes, I know he is young but I have just not seen enough flashes of good play at the PG position to make me think he is going to develop these skills. Perhaps if he were just more steady in his PG play (showing gradual consistent improvement) I would feel differently. If the Suns are going to use him as a SG or a combo guard, I think better players can be found.

My stance is essentially this, if you see him as the Suns future PG, keep him. If he is not the future Suns PG (and I question whether he is) the Suns might be better served to use him to acquire another first round draft pick (19 as conjectured) and use it on the potential of another young man who can play a position the Suns need. Of course there is no guarantee another draftee will develop either but I have at least seen enough of Leandro play (or fail to be able to provide steady play) the past two years to risk trading him if a quality pick were offered.

Actually, I don't think another team would give us this high a pick for Leandro so there is no need to worry. I'm don't think his value is that high. I would rather keep Leandro than to use him as filler in trade because as you say, he might develop (at least as a combo guard). He definitely has NBA caliber talent.

Again, what a terrific young man. I was hoping that if the Suns ever did acquire Nene, maybe some of Leandro's qualities might rub off on him.

I guess it's all how a person views a player and how he will develop. I want Leandro to develop as much as anyone, however, I'm growing impatient which I never did with JJ.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am having total deja vu about this prediction and my prediction that Zarko would be the pick.

Not to discount you getting Zarko right since I don't know the timeline....

It was all over the radio and the papers that the Suns gave Zarko a promise weeks before the draft. Saying the Suns were going to pick him was the safe prediction.

 

[George O'Brien]

Not to discount you getting Zarko right since I don't know the timeline....

It was all over the radio and the papers that the Suns gave Zarko a promise weeks before the draft. Saying the Suns were going to pick him was the safe prediction.

It was easily the worst kept secret in the NBA. Teams seem to be unwilling to draft guys they haven't had a chance to work out, so when Zarko went back to Europe he all be assured the Suns he was their guy.

The Ike situation is different He has worked out with a lot of teams and did not work out with the Suns until late in the cycle. Granted, he has had two workouts, but so has Garcia, Taft, and Gomes (that I know of).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Not to discount you getting Zarko right since I don't know the timeline....

It was all over the radio and the papers that the Suns gave Zarko a promise weeks before the draft. Saying the Suns were going to pick him was the safe prediction.

At the time many on the board were against drafting Zarko and were using terms like smokescreen and what not. The Suns are actually pretty forward with whom they like.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Did I miss that? I know they brought Petro in to see how Ike would do against a taller player, but I didn't hear that he was destroyed.

Anyways, I think that Ike is their guy at 21. Garcia if they move up to the 15 range. Graham if they move up higher.




Taking away his workout, the Ike situation is almost identical. 2 workouts, then shut down. I am almost positive Ike wasn't sick at all, I saw him at school last week and he was fine.

It was on ESPN Insider last week concerning their workout. Appharently Petro just abused him. Like I said, I personally would like Diogu, but I don't think the Suns do.

 

[Joe Mama]

Chris, where did you read that Petro destroyed Diogu? I've been wasting far too much time reading all about the draft, and Chad Ford is the only one I could remember mentioning that workout. He said that Petro was "impressive" against Diogu.

Petro sounds like he's been doing well in workouts. That's good, but it probably means that he won't be there at #21. By nearly every account he has a very good NBA body. The advantages that Diogu has over Petro are readiness to play, work ethic, rebound positioning, and maybe most important... shooting. Petro will probably be a better defender than Diogu because of his size and foot speed.

Ryan Gomes is the one we've been hearing the most about lately... at least from the Phoenix Suns can't. Is he the Jared Jeffries of this draft? If so, who is the Amare Stoudemire? Ike? Petro? Someone else?

This is why I think there's a good chance it is Ike. As Andy has pointed out he started shutting down many of his other workouts right after his second workout here. Apparently he has had some workouts since, but the one we know about was with New Jersey at #15. He might actually want to play in New Jersey. That's the 6 spots higher, and he would most likely get significant playing time there against weaker opponents in the Eastern conference.

Ike might not be the perfect power forward for the Phoenix Suns running game. He might be a little slow footed. I don't think he'll ever run like Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion, but with some work from the trainers he could do much better than the plodding up and down the court I watched last night in that replay of the game against U of A.. He would help on the boards, and he wouldn't require double-team help to guard most opposing power forwards. On offense we would not lose anything with him in the lineup.

Finally, Ike would also be a PR home run. Drafting him would get the locals even more excited about next season. Taking a player 99% of the Valley has never heard of won't do anything for public relations, especially if they plan on keeping him overseas for a year. After last year's success, if the Phoenix Suns could land Diogu and a couple nice free agents it would come close to the just before 92-93.

Joe Mama

 

[sunsfn]

Petro is 19 years old and very raw, and yet he made Ike look bad.

The suns will not draft Ike, If Ike is there at #21 they will pass.

The suns think Ike will play in the NBA and be a decent player off the bench, but they are hoping to get someone that someday could be a starter.

 

[scotsman13]

drafting a 7ft who can run and jump wouldnt. for years that is all my father (he doesnt watch 20 a year) has talked about with the suns. they need a big man who can run.

you guys want amare back at power forward? you want a normal line with the suns playing big. well it wont happen with a 6'6 1/2" power forward that isnt named barkley.

i have never seen ike play beside the clips of him but one think i know for sure is that if you are 6'8" in shoes and are not explosive that you you arent going to be a long trim anwser at power forward for a team who's stated goal is to out run, out jump every team they face.

 

[Joe Mama]

Petro is 19 years old and very raw, and yet he made Ike look bad.

The suns will not draft Ike, If Ike is there at #21 they will pass.

The suns think Ike will play in the NBA and be a decent player off the bench, but they are hoping to get someone that someday could be a starter.

First of all, here's the original quote from Chad Ford regarding the workout in question.

French big man Johan Petro is definitely keeping his name in, according to agent Sam Goldfeder. Petro has already worked out twice for the Lakers and had an impressive workout in Phoenix on Sunday against Ike Diogu.

The quote is from Petro's agent. it may be true, but that should immediately send up a flag. It also doesn't say anything about him "destroying" Diogu. We don't even know what that workout entailed. I doubt they had Diogu stepped out and kill Petro from outside all day long like they probably could have.

Where have the Phoenix Suns said that they are looking for someone who will someday be a starter? From what I've been reading and hearing it sounds like they want someone who will either be a good, quality starter down the road and/or will be able to contribute quality minutes towards a championship run next year.

drafting a 7ft who can run and jump wouldnt. for years that is all my father (he doesnt watch 20 a year) has talked about with the suns. they need a big man who can run.

you guys want amare back at power forward? you want a normal line with the suns playing big. well it wont happen with a 6'6 1/2" power forward that isnt named barkley.

i have never seen ike play beside the clips of him but one think i know for sure is that if you are 6'8" in shoes and are not explosive that you you arent going to be a long trim anwser at power forward for a team who's stated goal is to out run, out jump every team they face.

First of all, if you are going to say that Diogu is a 6'6 1/2" than Amare is just 6'8 1/2", Shawn Marion is only 6'5 1/2", etc. Nobody goes by the measurements without shoes on except those trying to show that somebody is too short. Diogu is 6'8". His standing reach is 9'1 which is as good or better than most of the power forwards in the NBA and several of the centers. He also has a 30" vertical leap. That's not great. Certainly it would be nice if he was more explosive and athletic, but according to Chad Ford "Despite good athleticism, Petro isn't a great leaper. Should be a much better shot blocker than he is.".

Don't get me wrong. I won't be disappointed with Petro as I originally said I would a few days ago. If the Phoenix Suns took him I would assume that they think there's a good chance he's going to be a quality Center for them at some point.

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

Quote:
French big man Johan Petro is definitely keeping his name in, according to agent Sam Goldfeder. Petro has already worked out twice for the Lakers and had an impressive workout in Phoenix on Sunday against Ike Diogu.

Like I said before, agents spreading propaganda, agents lying and the Suns using the most deceptive technique of all......


telling the truth?

Someone will guess who the Suns will pick but it'll just be luck since the Suns themselves have no idea who' they're going to pick at this point. When you draft at #21 all you can do is create a numbered list and pick the best guy left when your turn rolls around.