Prediction time

[Chris_Sanders]

First of all, here's the original quote from Chad Ford regarding the workout in question.



The quote is from Petro's agent. it may be true, but that should immediately send up a flag. It also doesn't say anything about him "destroying" Diogu. We don't even know what that workout entailed. I doubt they had Diogu stepped out and kill Petro from outside all day long like they probably could have.

Where have the Phoenix Suns said that they are looking for someone who will someday be a starter? From what I've been reading and hearing it sounds like they want someone who will either be a good, quality starter down the road and/or will be able to contribute quality minutes towards a championship run next year.



First of all, if you are going to say that Diogu is a 6'6 1/2" than Amare is just 6'8 1/2", Shawn Marion is only 6'5 1/2", etc. Nobody goes by the measurements without shoes on except those trying to show that somebody is too short. Diogu is 6'8". His standing reach is 9'1 which is as good or better than most of the power forwards in the NBA and several of the centers. He also has a 30" vertical leap. That's not great. Certainly it would be nice if he was more explosive and athletic, but according to Chad Ford "Despite good athleticism, Petro isn't a great leaper. Should be a much better shot blocker than he is.".

Don't get me wrong. I won't be disappointed with Petro as I originally said I would a few days ago. If the Phoenix Suns took him I would assume that they think there's a good chance he's going to be a quality Center for them at some point.

Joe Mama

I specifically recall another article discussing the very poor workout Diogu had against Petro.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Joe Mama, I don't understand who you are trying to sell because it isn't me. I have stated repeatedly that I prefer Diogu, I just don't believe the Suns do.

I have little concern about Diogu's height. He has consistently produced all through college despite double and triple teaming. Success like that transcends measurables. I will be ecstactic if he is selected. Unfortunately I haven't seen any indication from a normally easy to read Phoenix club that he is their top guy.

 

[PhxGametime]

Okay, I don't want to forget somebody...


Francisco Garcia G/F Louisville
Ike Diogu PF ASU
Chris Taft F/C Pittsburgh
Andray Blatche F H.S
Nate Robinson PG Washington
Ryan Gomes F Providence
Andrew Bynum C H.S (based on his self described, workout - I haven't watched film)
Roko Leni-Ukic PG Croatia
Julius Hodge G North Carolina State
Johan Petro C
Jarrett Jack PG Georgia Tech
Sean May PF North Carolina
Monta Ellis PG H.S (if the knee surgery slowed him down, at combine)
Jason Maxiell PF Cincinnati
David Lee PF Florida


McCants might drop and I really like his game but character issues... the mid-range guys if they drop...

Danny Granger F New Mexico
Channing Frye F/C Arizona
Hakim Warrick F Syracuse
Joey Graham F Oklahoma State
Antoine Wright G/F Texas A&M
Martell Webster G/F H.S
Rashad McCants G North Carolina (character issues)
Charlie Villanueva F Connecticut (although character issues as well)



That's 23 Prospects. I have a feeling I forgot someone but I tried...

 

[PhxGametime]

There's 7 that will go ahead of these 23 for sure... so other than David Lee and maybe Monta Ellis (depending on workouts) - I should be pretty happy somewhat... That's the order for now.

David Lee sort of dropped off my wantlist with Trade for KT, although Maxiell remains a possibility for me, Sean May might even be a little bit of a disappointment - his game is too much like KT's.

I was really disappointed with Ellis' workouts but I'm hoping it was knee surgery because NBADraft.net seemed to have him on the Suns Pick a lot.




I still would like Jawad Williams, Eddie Badsen, and Pops Mensah-Bonsu in 2nd Round, but they off of 1st Round contention...

 

[asudevil83]

Nothing would please me more than for me to be wrong in regard to Leandro. I find it difficult to remember a nicer young man coming to the Suns with the great smile and a tremendous upside. However, I am only giving you my opinion. Who wouldn't be happy keeping Leandro on this team? I know I would (but not at the expense of possibly improving this team).

Yes, drafting is a roll of the dice in regard to potential but after watching Leandro play for two years that's just about all I'm still seeing (potential). His propensity to turn the ball over and make bad decisions on the fastbreak worry me the most. Yes, I know he is young but I have just not seen enough flashes of good play at the PG position to make me think he is going to develop these skills. Perhaps if he were just more steady in his PG play (showing gradual consistent improvement) I would feel differently. If the Suns are going to use him as a SG or a combo guard, I think better players can be found.

My stance is essentially this, if you see him as the Suns future PG, keep him. If he is not the future Suns PG (and I question whether he is) the Suns might be better served to use him to acquire another first round draft pick (19 as conjectured) and use it on the potential of another young man who can play a position the Suns need. Of course there is no guarantee another draftee will develop either but I have at least seen enough of Leandro play (or fail to be able to provide steady play) the past two years to risk trading him if a quality pick were offered.

Actually, I don't think another team would give us this high a pick for Leandro so there is no need to worry. I'm don't think his value is that high. I would rather keep Leandro than to use him as filler in trade because as you say, he might develop (at least as a combo guard). He definitely has NBA caliber talent.

Again, what a terrific young man. I was hoping that if the Suns ever did acquire Nene, maybe some of Leandro's qualities might rub off on him.

I guess it's all how a person views a player and how he will develop. I want Leandro to develop as much as anyone, however, I'm growing impatient which I never did with JJ.

i COMPLETELY agree.

i think the suns are going big in the draft. Diogu is #1 on the list, Petro #2, followed by the best available big man left. if nothing of value is there in terms of big men, we will then go back and look and grab the best available anything left.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

antone got a information about the high schooler from New York, Blatche. I hear his name in connection with the Suns alot

 

[asudevil83]

antone got a information about the high schooler from New York, Blatche. I hear his name in connection with the Suns alot

there was some talk a while ago....but this kid is COMPLETELY raw. he thinks of himself as the second coming of Garnett, and as a consequence has payed absolutely no attention to anywhere within 10 ft. of the hoop up until recently.

he has almost no post moves, and has not even defended in the post until just a little while ago. he'd be a HUGE project for the suns.....something they arent looking for unless they can get another first rounder.

 

[Errntknght]

What I think will happen is that some bigs will move up - Taft, Petro, Bynum, Blatche - and Garcia will be taken by the Suns.

What I'd love to see happen - Suns swap their two picks for #'s 32 & 39 with which they pick Nate Robinson and Eddie? Basden. Nate for sheer excitement and Basden because he's supposed to be an ace defender in the mold of B. Bowen.

I hope the Suns are not still secretly coveting Martynas because most of the guys they've talked openly about sound like decent choices to me. Naturally, I'm not thrilled about 'draft and stash.'

 

[sunsfn]

I read an article that said Petro (not sure of the word) Diogu in a practice with the suns.

I thought the article was on here but I spent some time and can not find it, but it is here someplace......anybody rememeber where?

Anyway, the suns will not draft Ike, take my word for it. If he is there at #21 they will pass.

He looked bad against Petro and the suns do not think he can play the running game they play. (Van Arsdale quote)
They think he will be a contributor to any team that drafts him, but there will be a better player when they pick that will contribute more to their style.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

At the time many on the board were against drafting Zarko and were using terms like smokescreen and what not. The Suns are actually pretty forward with whom they like.

Oh I definitely did not want him when we picked him. That doesn't change the fact that everyone knew the Suns were taking him. No one wanted to admit it.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

He looked bad against Petro and the suns do not think he can play the running game they play. (Van Arsdale quote)

The main braintrust is BC, JC and David Griffin. Those three are making choices with help from the coaching staff. Van Arsdale is more of a consultant from what I understand.

Here is a quote from D'Antoni

He’s a basketball player, a guy who can put his back to the basket and spread the floor," Suns coach Mike D’Antoni said. "Those are important qualities to the Phoenix Suns, qualities that you can’t teach. He has those qualities."

I have not seen a single thing that said Ike had a bad workout against Petro. If you watch the video, the reason Ike worked out against Petro was because the Suns wanted to see him against a taller player.

If the Suns stay at 21, and Garcia is gone while Ike is there, Ike will be in a Suns uni next year.

but they are hoping to get someone that someday could be a starter.

According to who? They are picking at 21, not 11. The Suns want a contributer, but never has there been any talk of wanting a starter.

 

[Folster]

I'll be happy if the Suns draft the BPA. When the Suns draft for need it never works out. If BPA happens to be a need, then great. I don't care if we have 10 shooting guards. If BPA is a SG, take him, we can always trade him.

Example: C-Jake - After the Suns nabbed Amare at 9 they were in desperate need of a zone breaking shooter and drafted C-Jake at 22, passing on better players like Prince, Boozer, and Gadzuric to name a few.

I know many are sour on Boozer but just imagine

Nash
JJ
Marion
Boozer
Amare

Just ask the Knicks who make this mistake every year. They will do it again this year by reaching for Frye at 8.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

i have never seen ike play beside the clips of him but one think i know for sure is that if you are 6'8" in shoes and are not explosive that you you arent going to be a long trim anwser at power forward for a team who's stated goal is to out run, out jump every team they face.

Ever hear of Elton Brand? He is listed at 6'8"

What about Carlos Boozer? He is listed at 6'8"

Zach Randolph is 6'9"

Kenyon Martin is 6'9"

Juwan Howard is 6'9"

Udonis Haslem is 6'8"

Ben Wallace is 6'9"


They may not all be running teams, but most of those guys can get up the court.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Also, Thomas is about the same height - and far from explosive.

People have this misconception that all 5 players have to be fast. Someone has to get the rebound and outlet the ball. Players like Ike and Thomas are great for that.

Wait until you see Ike rebound. The guy is amazing.

 

[sunsfn]

The main braintrust is BC, JC and David Griffin. Those three are making choices with help from the coaching staff. Van Arsdale is more of a consultant from what I understand.


Van Arsdale is head of Player Personal..........He is involved!

Here is a quote from D'Antoni

I have not seen a single thing that said Ike had a bad workout against Petro. If you watch the video, the reason Ike worked out against Petro was because the Suns wanted to see him against a taller player.

If the Suns stay at 21, and Garcia is gone while Ike is there, Ike will be in a Suns uni next year.



According to who? They are picking at 21, not 11. The Suns want a contributer, but never has there been any talk of wanting a starter.

Ike had 2 workouts with the suns, the 2nd against Petro and it did not go good. I can not find the article.........I will keep trying.

This comment I made about them hoping that whoever they draft can be a starter someday, is what every team is hoping for in the draft at any position!

The suns do not think Ike can play their game.

Again, he will not be drafted, and if he is their at #21 they will pass.

I am not making this up............okay! You will have to wait and see.

I am not trying to argue with you, just letting you know what I know.

-

 

[devilalum]

Wasn't there an article about Ike abusing Taft to the point where Taft almost quit?

 

[asudevil83]

Wasn't there an article about Ike abusing Taft to the point where Taft almost quit?

yeah, i remember that

 

[sunsfn]

Wasn't there an article about Ike abusing Taft to the point where Taft almost quit?

No, it was Julius Hodges abusing Rashad McCants. And later they found out that McCants was actually hurt somewhat from all of the tryouts he had been doing and Hodges did not know that.

 

[asudevil83]

Wasn't there an article about Ike abusing Taft to the point where Taft almost quit?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54743&highlight=Diogu+Taft

here's the thread that talks about that. the link is dead though, but it was from DraftCity.

 

[devilalum]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54743&highlight=Diogu+Taft

here's the thread that talks about that. the link is dead though, but it was from DraftCity.

Thank you.:notworthy

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Actually, David Griffin is the director of player personel. Van Arsdale is senior executive vice president.

Trust me, the brain trust of the Suns is JC, BC and David Griffin. Those are the big 3. Van Arsdale is involved, but isn't making the decisions.



Diogu did abuse Taft. It was his first big workout, and the one that pushed him up a lot in the mocks.

I am not trying to argue either, but I highly doubt they will pass on Ike if they stay at 21. Of course, I don't think they are staying so we probably won't find out.


I am interested why you think that the Suns don't think Ike can play their game. Did you read the quote I put up in my last post?

 

[devilalum]

I'm biased when it comes to Ike but all year I watched the guy put up big points and rebounds playing 1 on 3 or 4. I don't know how many times it would be Ike and 3 or 4 guys from the other team in the lane and Ike would come up with the rebound. Granted ASU doesn't play a Duke quality schedule but they are in the PAC and a lot of NBA players come out of the PAC.

 

[sunsfn]

Actually, David Griffin is the director of player personel. Van Arsdale is senior executive vice president.

Trust me, the brain trust of the Suns is JC, BC and David Griffin. Those are the big 3. Van Arsdale is involved, but isn't making the decisions.



Diogu did abuse Taft. It was his first big workout, and the one that pushed him up a lot in the mocks.

I am not trying to argue either, but I highly doubt they will pass on Ike if they stay at 21. Of course, I don't think they are staying so we probably won't find out.


I am interested why you think that the Suns don't think Ike can play their game. Did you read the quote I put up in my last post?

Forgot about Van Arsdale moving up.....but still thought he was in on the decision making because he is usually at the try-outs and makes his comments. Maybe he just likes to be there.
(He is the one that said that about Ike not having the game for the suns style)

I did read about the Diogu and Taft workout, but forgot about it.

How about we just wait and see what happens at #21.

I have not heard about them moving up from any source other than here, and so I am not sure they will. But they certainly could, but not to take Ike.

----

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I'm biased when it comes to Ike but all year I watched the guy put up big points and rebounds playing 1 on 3 or 4. I don't know how many times it would be Ike and 3 or 4 guys from the other team in the lane and Ike would come up with the rebound. Granted ASU doesn't play a Duke quality schedule but they are in the PAC and a lot of NBA players come out of the PAC.

Agreed. Also, after Ike's freshman year he worked out at AWA with the Suns. Supposedly no one could stop him from scoring.

 

[scotsman13]

They may not all be running teams, but most of those guys can get up the court.

thanks for proving my point for me graham, the problem with ike isnt that he isnt skilled or that he is short so much as he is not explosive on both getting off his feet and running the court. brand is a very good leaper it isnt just his arms that leads him to block shots or being able to score he is explosive with his movements around the basket, around the court and getting off the ground. ike isnt, i am sorry.