Preseason: Suns @ Jazz 10-12-16

[Mainstreet]

He's always been like that. But when it matters, defenses force him to be a shooter and that puts an end to his highlights.

I'd really like to keep Archie beyond this season. He may not have an outside shot but he definitely can improve. IMO, you keep working on what he does well (slash to the basket) and try to expand his game. Unfortunately, he may not get enough minutes for his game to develop with the Suns who are loaded with guards and apparently set at SF. It's easy to forget Archie is only 22 years old and he will not turn 23 until next August.

 

[Mainstreet]

You just can't coach that kind of athletic ability. He has insane athleticism. He should be getting the athleticism hype that Zach Lavine gets all the time.

Call me crazy but if it came down to it, I'd rather us give $15million/yr to Goodwin rather than Alex Len. I'd preferably not give it to either but between the two of them, I'd give it to Goodwin even despite our excellent depth at guard.

Obviously the Suns won't ever do that and this next season will highly likely be Goodwin's last one with the Suns as well since he's a FA at the end of it.

I'd like him to see him go to the Spurs. Even if its for just one season, I'd love to see what Pop can do with his athleticism and length. I think Chip Engelland may be able to improve his jump shot to at least an average level too.

You may not be far off in your last paragraph.

Archie Goodwin needs regular minutes to take the next step (which I think he is capable of doing). This is the most important factor. This may be more important than which team he plays for. If the Suns let him go, I think in another year or two they will regret it. He just needs the opportunity to blossom.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You may not be far off in your last paragraph.

Archie Goodwin needs regular minutes to take the next step (which I think he is capable of doing). This is the most important factor. This may be more important than which team he plays for. If the Suns let him go, I think in another year or two they will regret it. He just needs the opportunity to blossom.

Ok. I will bite. Who gets moved back in the rotation so that Archie can get minutes?


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[overseascardfan]

Ok. I will bite. Who gets moved back in the rotation so that Archie can get minutes?


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Well if Knight gets traded

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just don't see where minutes would help Archie's game? He's shooting .227 from 3 for his career and his numbers last year were almost identical to his career average. He's shooting under .500 all told despite the fact that more than half his shots are layups and dunks. Playing time isn't going to change those numbers. He needs instruction and repetition.

 

[BC867]

I just don't see where minutes would help Archie's game? He's shooting .227 from 3 for his career and his numbers last year were almost identical to his career average. He's shooting under .500 all told despite the fact that more than half his shots are layups and dunks. Playing time isn't going to change those numbers. He needs instruction and repetition.

Instant offense on an irregular basis from outside the rotation. It takes a polished team to make use of that role. The Suns have too many young Guards to develop, even if they wind up playing them at PG, SG and SF, to give time to instant offense. Especially having brought back Barbosa.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Especially having brought back Barbosa.

I know we needed a little veteran help but I have the feeling that Dudley and Barbosa think they are still capable of playing big minutes. I was so over Dudley by the time we traded him and all I see is a player that is another step slower than the one that was already too slow to be effective the last time he was here. Barbosa has added years but I doubt his basketball wisdom has increased much. They are both nice guys but I'm just not sure they're expecting to lead from the bench.

 

[sunsfan88]

You may not be far off in your last paragraph.

Archie Goodwin needs regular minutes to take the next step (which I think he is capable of doing). This is the most important factor. This may be more important than which team he plays for. If the Suns let him go, I think in another year or two they will regret it. He just needs the opportunity to blossom.

He will never get that opportunity in Phoenix due to us having a trillion guards but like I said, I could see him going to the Spurs and playing well and maybe even making some wonder how we had guys like Knight and Barbosa managed to be ahead of him on the depth chart.

If his agent is smart, he'll sign a 1 year deal with the Spurs next summer and then cash in on a long term deal the year after.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I know we needed a little veteran help but I have the feeling that Dudley and Barbosa think they are still capable of playing big minutes. I was so over Dudley by the time we traded him and all I see is a player that is another step slower than the one that was already too slow to be effective the last time he was here. Barbosa has added years but I doubt his basketball wisdom has increased much. They are both nice guys but I'm just not sure they're expecting to lead from the bench.

Dudley is great to have in the locker room even if he does not play big minutes. He helps other players remember what a privilege it is to play in this league. In interviews when he was signed, he was asked plainly if he was ok with a diminishing role as other players develop and he said he knew that was his role and he is ok with it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Dudley is great to have in the locker room even if he does not play big minutes. He helps other players remember what a privilege it is to play in this league. In interviews when he was signed, he was asked plainly if he was ok with a diminishing role as other players develop and he said he knew that was his role and he is ok with it.

Yeah I heard all that but every time I heard his words, he seemed to also be saying "the job is mine until the young ones mature". He can't hold down the starting position, not even for a short while. If we aren't starting Chriss or Warren at the 4, we're in real trouble and I'm just not convinced Dudley sees it that way. Not that I'm worried he'll go off the deep end, twins style. I'm just concerned about the story line when we are a losing team and Barbosa and Dudley still aren't playing much.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah I heard all that but every time I heard his words, he seemed to also be saying "the job is mine until the young ones mature". He can't hold down the starting position, not even for a short while. If we aren't starting Chriss or Warren at the 4, we're in real trouble and I'm just not convinced Dudley sees it that way. Not that I'm worried he'll go off the deep end, twins style. I'm just concerned about the story line when we are a losing team and Barbosa and Dudley still aren't playing much.

Well. The good news is that Watson doesn't seem to have any qualms whatsoever about giving minutes and even starting positions to younger players. Booker is the starter. He is better than Knight and tenure means nothing. Chriss is on his way to being a starter. If he keeps playing like he is, it will be sooner than later. And when Dudley moves out of the starting line up (probably before Christmas) he will be the best cheerleader for whoever takes the job--probably Chriss.

 

[Chaplin]

Geez are you guys serious? They guy has a game winner in a meaningless preseason game and all of a sudden he's worthy of a rotation spot? Come on now. Brandon Knight is 20 times the player Archie is.

It is so incredibly foolish to think Archie is anything more than he is, regardless of what team he plays for. He's had multiple opportunities on a bottom feeder and has squandered each and every one of them.

 

[Phrazbit]

Goodwin is going to be tearing it up in China in a couple years. He isn't in NBA rotation player and I don't think he ever will be, too fundamentally flawed in too many ways. There is no place in this league for a guard who cannot shoot and cannot pass.

 

[BC867]

Yeah I heard all that but every time I heard his words, he seemed to also be saying "the job is mine until the young ones mature". He can't hold down the starting position, not even for a short while. If we aren't starting Chriss or Warren at the 4, we're in real trouble and I'm just not convinced Dudley sees it that way. Not that I'm worried he'll go off the deep end, twins style. I'm just concerned about the story line when we are a losing team and Barbosa and Dudley still aren't playing much.

I agree, Steve. But I think that JCSunsfan is right in believing that Watson will not lean toward playing the old veterans at the expense of developing the young players.

It will be refreshing to have a Head Coach who will truly be more concerned with rebuilding a winner than the short term goal of his won-lost record. The sooner we test and develop the young guys, the quicker we'll get back into contention. Something we haven't concentrated on more within the past few years. Were it not for injuries, Booker will still be coming off the bench.

I am pleasantly surprised at the potential of Watson to both rebuild a winning team and maintain it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree, Steve. But I think that JCSunsfan is right in believing that Watson will not lean toward playing the old veterans at the expense of developing the young players.

It will be refreshing to have a Head Coach who will truly be more concerned with rebuilding a winner than the short term goal of his won-lost record. The sooner we test and develop the young guys, the quicker we'll get back into contention. Something we haven't concentrated on more within the past few years. Were it not for injuries, Booker will still be coming off the bench.

I am pleasantly surprised at the potential of Watson to both rebuild a winning team and maintain it.

Wow! I agree with BC! But maybe that's just he agreed with me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not overly concerned that Watson will play the veterans instead of the young guys unless Sarver influences that decision. But I am concerned about the way Barbosa and Dudley will take it if neither of them sees the court regularly. And I'm concerned how that story will develop. I don't want to see another hatchet job from the media about our franchise.

Barbosa and Duds won't have to be saying much of anything either, the story will likely grow legs even without their help. And we'll hear how once again we don't know how to treat veterans, especially loyal veterans that returned expecting a hero's welcome and were instantly shunted to the bench. The only thing to prevent this, IMO, is if we outperform expectations or if the younger players really show major growth along the way.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not overly concerned that Watson will play the veterans instead of the young guys unless Sarver influences that decision. But I am concerned about the way Barbosa and Dudley will take it if neither of them sees the court regularly. And I'm concerned how that story will develop. I don't want to see another hatchet job from the media about our franchise.

Barbosa and Duds won't have to be saying much of anything either, the story will likely grow legs even without their help. And we'll hear how once again we don't know how to treat veterans, especially loyal veterans that returned expecting a hero's welcome and were instantly shunted to the bench. The only thing to prevent this, IMO, is if we outperform expectations or if the younger players really show major growth along the way.

Nah. Everyone knows where this team is in rebuilding. Dudley is getting paid good money to be a good soldier. If he comes off the bench it will be no big deal.


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[AZCrazy]

This year needs to be about player development, not wins. Turn Booker and Bledsoe into an all star backcourt. Develop Chriss, Warren, and Bender into serviceable players this year, and maybe more for Chriss. He could be another Marion type of player for us with great athleticism and touch.

I don't mind Len sticking with the team and holding down the 5. He is improved and is serviceable, as long as he is not called upon to be a star. Need role players too, we just need a dominant 4.

 

[BC867]

Wow! I agree with BC! But maybe that's just he agreed with me.

Tsk tsk.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ok. I will bite. Who gets moved back in the rotation so that Archie can get minutes?

As it stands now, I don't Archie will get the minutes he needs to further develop with the Suns unless a trade is made to create room. So if Archie is to develop like I think he can, it will likely have to be with another team.

If Knight gets traded as Overseascardfan suggests, Archie might be able to get more minutes with the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know we needed a little veteran help but I have the feeling that Dudley and Barbosa think they are still capable of playing big minutes. I was so over Dudley by the time we traded him and all I see is a player that is another step slower than the one that was already too slow to be effective the last time he was here. Barbosa has added years but I doubt his basketball wisdom has increased much. They are both nice guys but I'm just not sure they're expecting to lead from the bench.

I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching my head about the Suns bringing back Dudley. It perplexes me every time I think about it. There must have been better options. At least Barbosa is more palatable for me with the possibility of trading Knight.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching my head about the Suns bringing back Dudley. It perplexes me every time I think about it. There must have been better options. At least Barbosa is more palatable for me with the possibility of trading Knight.

OK. Here are the reasons.

1. Great locker room influence for the young guys. He is encouraging and shows gratitude for the opportunity to play the game. Young guys need to hear that all the time.
2. The ability to start at the 4 if necessary. No, he will not star there by any means. Dudley is one of those players that will not hurt you when he is on the floor.
3. Willingness to accept a declining role as the young players develop. I am sure they even talked about this in negotiations. Dudley is like Watson. He is more of a coach than a player at heart. He revels in motivation and strategy. I would not be surprised if they talked about a role after playing days.

 

[Mainstreet]

OK. Here are the reasons.

1. Great locker room influence for the young guys. He is encouraging and shows gratitude for the opportunity to play the game. Young guys need to hear that all the time.
2. The ability to start at the 4 if necessary. No, he will not star there by any means. Dudley is one of those players that will not hurt you when he is on the floor.
3. Willingness to accept a declining role as the young players develop. I am sure they even talked about this in negotiations. Dudley is like Watson. He is more of a coach than a player at heart. He revels in motivation and strategy. I would not be surprised if they talked about a role after playing days.

I'm just jealous I'm not getting paid $30 million to be a great locker room influence.

 

[ProdigalSun]

OK. Here are the reasons.

1. Great locker room influence for the young guys. He is encouraging and shows gratitude for the opportunity to play the game. Young guys need to hear that all the time.
2. The ability to start at the 4 if necessary. No, he will not star there by any means. Dudley is one of those players that will not hurt you when he is on the floor.
3. Willingness to accept a declining role as the young players develop. I am sure they even talked about this in negotiations. Dudley is like Watson. He is more of a coach than a player at heart. He revels in motivation and strategy. I would not be surprised if they talked about a role after playing days.

Seriously after watching what the Morrii brought to that locker room ...

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm just jealous I'm not getting paid $30 million to be a great locker room influence.

I am too. I could tell them how lucky they are and never dunk just as easily as Duds.