Presently Satisfied With Robin Lopez Pick AT #15 ?

[Cheesebeef]

Remembering that it usually takes a couple of years for a young big to develop (Jermaine ONeal, Bynum, etc), I am happy with the selection.

it's not really the same situation though as the guys you listed considering Robin's already 20 and played college ball while O'Neal and Bynum came straight from high school at the ages of 18 and 17 respectively.

i like his energy, but man is he a piss poor rebounder regardless of age.

 

[nowagimp]

it's not really the same situation though as the guys you listed considering Robin's already 20 and played college ball while O'Neal and Bynum came straight from high school at the ages of 18 and 17 respectively.

i like his energy, but man is he a piss poor rebounder regardless of age.

Lets compare lopez to anderson varjeo, it seems that is considered his closest comparative NBA player. in his rookie year, varjeo grabbed 4.8 rebounds in 16 mins a game. Well, Lopez is "grabbing" 1.7 rebounds in 12.8 minutes. I am concerned that Porter is not playing him much because the suns rebound poorly with him in there. I much prefer amundsen to lopez and he came cheap. The suns could have had chalmers, aurthur or speichts and still had amundsen.

 

[Covert Rain]

i like his energy, but man is he a piss poor rebounder regardless of age.

Agreed. I mentioned this in one of the game threads but I noticed that he on several occasions jumped to early or too late. I started watching for it and it happened time and time again.

That just surprised me because the guy has good timing with the ball coming at the rim but lousy timing when the ball is coming off the rim. Hopefully, this can be coached into him. I just don't recall any instance in which a poor rebounding big man was coached up to become a good rebounding big man. Nobody comes to mind.

 

[Espo]

Honestly Lopez has been a bit of a disappointment. I thought he wasn't going to be the project that it looks like he is, especially on the defensive/rebounding end. He brings energy and interesting hair but that's about it right now.

I think by the end of December though that he will find his rhythm and be a contributor to this team when it comes to rebounding. It sounds like he is being mentored by Shaq in practice and he can't help but learn from that.

 

[Yuma]

Lopez is a good pick at #15. Look at some of the busts we have had, or [picks we traded away. He helps us more than hurts us. I like him.

 

[BC867]

At least we now have a former NBA Center to coach him. Let's give it some time.

Remember, the worst players in the NBA are still exceedingly good basketball players . . . once they've acclaimated. That's whom he is going up against in games. Let's give him some time.

 

[jagu]

He has a good free throw shot, it doesn't look awkward. He isn't garbage, he isn't great either but he might be a useful big.

 

[Errntknght]

SteelDog,

That just surprised me because the guy has good timing with the ball coming at the rim but lousy timing when the ball is coming off the rim. Hopefully, this can be coached into him. I just don't recall any instance in which a poor rebounding big man was coached up to become a good rebounding big man. Nobody comes to mind.

I've watched him closely, too, and I wouldn't say his timing is the main problem though it is not nearly as good as when he's blocking shots. I think its a number of things - poor sense of the direction the ball is going to come off, not good hands, lack of lower body strength - he gets pushed around quite a bit - and his upper body strength is lacking as well. He also seems to slow to react, several times he's been standing flat footed with no movement toward the ball for a half second after it bounced off the rim.

I expect him to add some muscle and improve a bit at the struggle for position but hands almost never improve and neither does that sense of where the ball is headed. The reaction time can probably get a little better if he learns to get off his heels and get primed to move ahead of time.

 

[elindholm]

Remembering that it usually takes a couple of years for a young big to develop (Jermaine ONeal, Bynum, etc)

Who's "etc"? O'Neal and Bynum are two of the very few big men who showed much "development" after being drafted. Biedrins goes into that category as well. But the overwhelming trend is that if a big man looks poor in his first season, he's not going to amount to anything.

Also, keep in mind that your success stories were very young when they entered the league. Each of them (O'Neal, Bynum, Biedrins) was only 18 at the start of his rookie season. Lopez is 20, so you'd have to compare his rookie year to the third years of the other players:

O'Neal (1999 lockout season): 2.5 ppg, .434 FG%, 2.7 rpg
Bynum (07-08): 13.1 ppg, .636 FG%, 10.2 rpg
Biedrins (06-07): 9.5 ppg, .599 FG%, 9.3 rpg

O'Neal is really the only poster child for true "late-developing big man" in the history of the league, or at least over the last 25 years. He's literally a 1 out of 100 case.

Lopez's ceiling is Anderson Varejao. If he can get close to that, the Suns will have done well.

 

[Mainstreet]

Lopez's ceiling is Anderson Varejao. If he can get close to that, the Suns will have done well.

I would accept that comparison and be satisfied with it. However, since Lopez is still a rookie, one never knows. Lopez looks better on offense than I thought he would.

 

[Bufalay]

What's with the constant Varejao comparisons? Varejao doesn't do anything except rebound. Lopez doesn't do anything, but block shots. If Lopez's ceiling is Varejao is that a hope that he will become a good rebounder and stop blocking shots? He looks a lot more like King Tut Skinner to me.

 

[Kolo]

O'Neal is really the only poster child for true "late-developing big man" in the history of the league, or at least over the last 25 years. He's literally a 1 out of 100 case.

Not really. Players leaving college early is somewhat new, so there were hardly any 20 year old rookies in the league until the 90's.

And other late developing big men include Brad Miller, Roy Tarpley, Buck Johnson--each was a 22 year old rookie who sucked, and they became very good players. Rony Seikaly was a mediocre 23 year old rookie who dramatically improved.

 

[dbUNIT16]

I think he'll be OK. For a 15 pick... ehhh, you can either get a great player or a very average one, just depends on how deep the draft was. I'd like to see him get more playing time, but I can't really see him being a starting center for some time... but that's just me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not really. Players leaving college early is somewhat new, so there were hardly any 20 year old rookies in the league until the 90's.

somewhat new? High school players skipping the NBA is somewhat new

And other late developing big men include Brad Miller, Roy Tarpley, Buck Johnson--each was a 22 year old rookie who sucked, and they became very good players.[/QUOTE]

I'll give you Miller and Tarp (even though both of those guys rebounded at a much higher rate than Carrot-top), but Buck Johnson? When Buck Johnson is part of your argument me thinks that says it all about that position.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's easy to forget Robin Lopez is only 20. There is a lot of upside potential due to age and he's already getting playing time in the NBA. I tend to forget his youth.

 

[cly2tw]

Varajao, Przybilla, Foster are all worth a #15 pick. Robin is better than Hunter and the likes.

 

[arwillan]

What's with the constant Varejao comparisons? Varejao doesn't do anything except rebound. Lopez doesn't do anything, but block shots. If Lopez's ceiling is Varejao is that a hope that he will become a good rebounder and stop blocking shots? He looks a lot more like King Tut Skinner to me.

Varejao rebounds very well on both ends, plays defense, and hustles. I think that that's a very accurate comparison actually. The hair is also strikingly similar.

 

[Kolo]

somewhat new? High school players skipping the NBA is somewhat new

And other late developing big men include Brad Miller, Roy Tarpley, Buck Johnson--each was a 22 year old rookie who sucked, and they became very good players.

I'll give you Miller and Tarp (even though both of those guys rebounded at a much higher rate than Carrot-top), but Buck Johnson? When Buck Johnson is part of your argument me thinks that says it all about that position.[/QUOTE]

Ok, Truck Robinson, Shawn Kemp and Elden Campbell went from lousy rookie seasons to become good players--and if Lopez turns out as good as any of them, it's a good pick. Point being, a whole lot of rookies aged 20-23 sucked and became good or great players. To say Jermaine O'Neal is the only post player who ever improved after a bad rookie season is ludicrous. Although you apparently disagree.

 

[Bufalay]

Varejao rebounds very well on both ends, plays defense, and hustles. I think that that's a very accurate comparison actually. The hair is also strikingly similar.

If by all of that you mean that they have similar hair and can't do much on offense then I guess you have yourself a comparison.

 

[Muggum]

JaVale McGee is starting to make Kerr look stupider than ever.

 

[elindholm]

Ok, Truck Robinson, Shawn Kemp and Elden Campbell went from lousy rookie seasons to become good players

Truck Robinson? Seriously? He was 6' 7". We're talking big men.

Kemp entered the league straight out of high school.

Elden Campbell wound up having one or two statistically good seasons late in his career when he blundered into a starter's role. I don't think he's an informative example.

Point being, a whole lot of rookies aged 20-23 sucked and became good or great players.

Not big men. Most of your examples don't fit the category.

To say Jermaine O'Neal is the only post player who ever improved after a bad rookie season is ludicrous. Although you apparently disagree.

That's because I've looked at the facts.

 

[Kolo]

Not big men. Most of your examples don't fit the category.



That's because I've looked at the facts.

Your standard was that big men who look poor in their first season "never amount to anything." Roy Tarpley became one of the best players in the league (for a very short period of time). Brad Miller has been an all-star. Theo Ratliff turned into a good player. Rony Seikaly was mediocre at age 23 and became a very good player. Elden Campbell was no all-star, but he was a good player, averaged about 13 points and 8 boards and 2 blocks from 1995-2002. Each of them is fairly close in size to Lopez, and each had a lousy-to-mediocre rookie season (while several years older than Lopez).

If Lopez turns into Elden Campbell, he'll have been a decent pick at #15. If he turns into Seikaly or Miller, it'll be a great pick.

 

[nowagimp]

JaVale McGee is starting to make Kerr look stupider than ever.

No kidding, he's already better than Lopez, and he has a huge upside. talent evaluation isnt a given just because you've played with great players. This suns management has almost no track record(except for bad) in talent evaluation. Griff, Kerr, Porter, have yet to show me anything. If they would have taken dragic at #15 with Lopez off the board, they are really incompetent. Dragic doesnt have the speed to dribble penetrate in the NBA, he's just not quick enough, and he's not going to get quicker as he ages.

 

[nowagimp]

One of the discouraging things about lopez(other than rebounding), it watching him rush smaller quicker players at 15-18' from the rim and then they blow by him for the finish as he swipes ineffectively at the ball. Last night it was aron brooks, but many other 1's and 2's have made him look silly when he attempts to close them out on the perimeter, its a free layup. It kills morale for other defenders and Im sure Terry Porter makes up new cuss words every time it happens. But you know where is the big man coach? He needs to get off his arse and teach the young fella. Lopez feet are just too slow for him to do that in the NBA. Hopefully he will figure out where the tread marks on his back have come from, and stay in the lane area on defense.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

1/3 of the way through the season:

Doesn't have the hands for rebounding.
Too passive around the bucket. Prefers to lob in over dunking it down, resulting in a frustrating amount of misses on high percentage shots.
Solid shot blocker.
Can't dunk effectively.
Spurts of solid defense.
Gets down the floor well.



Brother just put up 23/12 today...