Probably Most Watched REgular Season Game

[Darth Llama]

I know you said it. And I can't think of any reason to discuss the fact that both run a version of the triangle. Has little to no relevance at all.

Gotcha..

I was just answering another poster who brought it up. He thought I was confusing the two teams, that's the only reason I brought it up. The quote is above where I first said it in my post. I get what you're saying though, it's not relevant at all. I was just answering back, that's all.

 

[D-Dogg]

Donald, no response for the "Lakers play the triangle just like the Bulls did" comment?

They actually do it more so now. In the Shaq era, the did not...they altered the tri to accomodate Shaq. It is run more like it was in Chi now.

How have the Lakers fared in series not including Magic, Kobe, and Shaq? That is what I wouldn't like to know.

Against the Suns? We are 1-0.

Against the league? Well, are you forgetting about this guy:

You must be registered for see images

Because with him they went to lots of Finals. And with Mikan they won lots of Finals.

 

[D-Dogg]

I know you said it. And I can't think of any reason to discuss the fact that both run a version of the triangle. Has little to no relevance at all.

Well, basically the Suns are 2-2 against the Triangle.

 

[Mulli]

Gotcha..

I was just answering another poster who brought it up. He thought I was confusing the two teams, that's the only reason I brought it up. The quote is above where I first said it in my post. I get what you're saying though, it's not relevant at all. I was just answering back, that's all.

In all of this, I have forgot what we were discussing anyway.

 

[D-Dogg]

In all of this, I have forgot what we were discussing anyway.

Kobe is Darth Vader

 

[Darth Llama]

Oh, just FYI..

" How have the Lakers fared in series not including Magic, Kobe, and Shaq? That is what I wouldn't like to know."

7 titles (1948,1949,1950,1952,1953,1954,1972.)

Just answering the question, nothing more.

In all of this, I have forgot what we were discussing anyway.

It's probably best that way anyway.

 

[Mulli]

I told you both I didn't want to know. But thanks.

 

[Darth Llama]

I told you both I didn't want to know. But thanks.

Wow.. I totally misread your post. I thought you said "would like to know."

I'm sorry man, that was my bad 100%

 

[abomb]

Darth Jackson: [Bryant's new mechanical body arises from the steam... ] Lord Kobe... can you hear me?
Darth Bryant: Yes, Master.
Darth Bryant: [Bryant looks at Kupchak] ... Where is Bynum? Is he safe? Is he all right?
Darth Jackson: It seems in your anger, you killed him.
Darth Bryant: I...? I couldn't have! His knee was alive; I felt it!
[Bryant growls, and his Tri Side strength crushes everything around him in the room. He frees himself from the metal stretcher, and steps off. kupchak has a smirk on his face]
Darth Bryant: Nooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[D-Dogg]

Wow.. I totally misread your post. I thought you said "would like to know."

I'm sorry man, that was my bad 100%

Don't apologize to Mulli. He's a jerkface.

just do this to him

 

[Mulli]

Wow.. I totally misread your post. I thought you said "would like to know."

I'm sorry man, that was my bad 100%

 

[D-Dogg]

*checks watch*

 

[D-Dogg]

You're slipping, mulli.

 

[elindholm]

In its existence, the Suns franchise record against the Lakers:

2007 -- defeated LA Lakers, 4-1, first round
2006 -- defeated LA Lakers, 4-3, first round
2000 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-1, conference semifinals
1993 -- defeated LA Lakers, 3-2, first round
1990 -- defeated LA Lakers, 4-1, conference semifinals
1989 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-0, conference finals
1985 -- lost to LA Lakers, 3-0, first round
1984 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-2, conference finals
1982 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-0, conference semifinals
1980 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-1, conference semifinals
1970 -- lost to LA Lakers, 4-3, division semifinals

Wow, I didn't realize how lopsided recent history is. The Suns are 4-2 in playoffs series against the Lakers over the last 20 years, which is as far back as anyone could possibly care.

I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't realize how dominant the Suns have been.

 

[D-Dogg]

Wow, I didn't realize how lopsided recent history is. The Suns are 4-2 in playoffs series against the Lakers over the last 20 years, which is as far back as any Suns fan could possibly care.

FTFY

 

[D-Dogg]

Oh, and though the series in those last 20 years is 4-2 in the suns favor, the games are 16-15. Hardly "dominant." A few swings two years ago and the series is 3-3.

If anything, it shows these two teams have overall been fun to watch go at it, and if we matched up more often we'd have a sick rivalry.

 

[Mulli]

You're slipping, mulli.

MODS!

(late)

 

[D-Dogg]

MODS!

(late)

Man...what is wrong with you?

You used to be so on the ball. Have you given up being on the ball for Lent?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You have got to be kidding me? Seriously? A Suns fan is going to lecture a Laker fan about importance in the playoffs? You guys beat the Lakers the last 2 years yes, congratulations. Other then the loss to the Bulls in the Finals one year, that's the absolute best you have. You have 2 years of beating 2 bad Laker teams that barely made the playoffs to begin with, with a team of all stars that still couldn't get it done. Congratulations, how proud you must be.

When your pathetic team and your sorry excuse for a head coach get a ring to show for your efforts, then maybe someone will listen, until that time, you just sound sad. I usually try to show some respect for the Suns in this forum, but if you're going to start that "we own you" crap over 2 years worth of playoffs, then things are going to get ugly fast. Seriously dude, get over yourself. I could debate the intricacies of working a new center into a system that's played like back yard basketball vs. integrating a position into the triple post offense of LA, but would it really matter? No one here wants to talk anything other then "lakers suck," so what's the point? Enjoy your season and another year of excuses when you don't win.

Darth, Darth, Darth. How can we be so close as Cardinal fans yet so diametrically opposed on this board? Are you a Scum Devil Alum or something too?

To my point - I want to bring about a line I have used before that needs to be reiterated: Nobody cares what you did 20 years ago or even at the beginning of this decade. Those teams are nothing like the team you have currently constituted. Obviously If I get into an argument of whose franchise has been more successful since 1963 theres not going to be much for me to say is there? But why the heck do I care how dominant you were with Magic, Elgin Baylor and Kareem? Or even Shaq? The Suns are not lineing up against those guys. How is that even relevant.

I live here in Miami, home of the 1-15 Dolphins and hear them crow about well we went undefeated one year and have two rings? LOL - okay - what does that do for you today? Like I have said before. Your better then that Laker fan. Quit clinging to the past.

Why do I only bring down the last two series? Because my whole point is why we are going to win THIS UPCOMING YEAR in the playoffs. Well one of my arguements is recent history - with much of the cores (Nash, Stat, Bell and Kobe, Odom, Bynum) being the same. I think that shows we have shown we can beat Kobe and Phil. You can crow all you want about how you "think" you'll beat us or how "it's different this time" - but recent history has shown that not to be the case. Does that make sense? That's why I don't really care about your 168 championships.

Kareem and Jerry West aren't walking through that door.

 

[D-Dogg]

Why do I only bring down the last two series? Because my whole point is why we are going to win THIS UPCOMING YEAR in the playoffs. Well one of my arguements is recent history - with much of the cores (Nash, Stat, Bell and Kobe, Odom, Bynum) being the same. I think that shows we have shown we can beat Kobe and Phil.

The argument doesn't mesh. This season's Laker team was vastly different with the maturation of Farmar and Bynum and the addition of Fisher instead of Smush. Even on that alone, you couldn't make the argument of "same guys as last year" when one is new and two are VASTLY improved from the last two years. Then you throw Gasol into the mix. And the Suns lose Marion and gain Shaq.

Trying to base anything on the last two seasons with these two teams is pointless. Hell, we can't even look at THIS season because of the changes that have taken place.

It is silly to rely on "history" to make your argument, but if you must, then all the history comes in.

This is about two teams now, very different than they were before, and how they will match up. The last two years are irrelevant, unless the Lakers somehow regress Bynum, bring back Smush, kick out Fisher, put Farmar in the d-league and trade Gasol for Kwame.

 

[abomb]

Lakers somehow regress Bynum, bring back Smush, kick out Fisher, put Farmar in the d-league and trade Gasol for Kwame.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The argument doesn't mesh. This season's Laker team was vastly different with the maturation of Farmar and Bynum and the addition of Fisher instead of Smush. Even on that alone, you couldn't make the argument of "same guys as last year" when one is new and two are VASTLY improved from the last two years. Then you throw Gasol into the mix. And the Suns lose Marion and gain Shaq.

Trying to base anything on the last two seasons with these two teams is pointless. Hell, we can't even look at THIS season because of the changes that have taken place.

It is silly to rely on "history" to make your argument, but if you must, then all the history comes in.

This is about two teams now, very different than they were before, and how they will match up. The last two years are irrelevant, unless the Lakers somehow regress Bynum, bring back Smush, kick out Fisher, put Farmar in the d-league and trade Gasol for Kwame.

Fair enough. Would you say that 2005 Lakers are a more comprable to the 2007 version then the 2000 Lakers? How about the 1986 Lakers?

My point is that while there have been a numerous changes even this year, (Gasol and O'neal for one) recent history with Amare, Steve, Kobe, Mike and Phil has shown the Suns to be the better team over the course of 7 games.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to think that Bynums maturity and Derek Fisher are going to make all the difference. But I counter with a (finally) near full strength Amare and Grant Hill.

But you havn't beat us yet. We still hold that Pacific Division crown for three years running and the move for Shaq goes to show that we aren't about to hand it over.

Who knows how big of an effect Shaq/Gasol will have? But at least the view points I am talking/projecting have some pieces from these past playoff matches. I'm not trying to tout my franchise's past success like Laker fans over here. I'm talking about whats going to happen this year.

That's all thats relevant IMO. The Lakers 2000 world champs can be pimped all they want in the Smack Shack. I'm here to talk 2007/08 Phoenix Suns basketball.

 

[D-Dogg]

Fair enough. Would you say that 2005 Lakers are a more comprable to the 2007 version then the 2000 Lakers? How about the 1986 Lakers?

The point is, the Lakers especially, as well as the Suns are different teams even from what there was last year. The 2007-08 Lakers are better than any team the Lakers have had since the Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton team.

My point is that while there have been a numerous changes even this year, (Gasol and O'neal for one) recent history with Amare, Steve, Kobe, Mike and Phil has shown the Suns to be the better team over the course of 7 games.

The changes of this year make the past irrelevant. Seriously.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to think that Bynums maturity and Derek Fisher are going to make all the difference. But I counter with a (finally) near full strength Amare and Grant Hill.

You mention Grant Hill, but fail to mention Tim Thomas gone and Kurt Thomas gone. Without Tim Thomas, the Lakers most likely won two years ago. The Lakers players are maturing and getting better. Nash looks like he's lost a step. We are both integrating new players in Gasol and Shaq. We lost Kwame in the process, you lost Marion. These just aren't the same teams.

But you havn't beat us yet. We still hold that Pacific Division crown for three years running and the move for Shaq goes to show that we aren't about to hand it over.

Nope, not yet. And our move for Gasol says we are gunning for it. We've beat you twice this season, and we'll likely lose to you twice this season. Funny thing is, none of those regular season matchups will tell us much since people were either out, or new to the team. We will go into the playoffs curious about how we match up, should we even meet up.

Who knows how big of an effect Shaq/Gasol will have? But at least the view points I am talking/projecting have some pieces from these past playoff matches. I'm not trying to tout my franchise's past success like Laker fans over here. I'm talking about whats going to happen this year. That's all thats relevant IMO.

That is all that is relevant, and the Suns v. Lakers the last two years are not. If you can honestly look at the Lakers team, and how it is playing (look at the point differential, etc.) and say it is the same team your Suns beat the last two years, then you are not the smart NBA fan I take you for. We effectively traded Kwame and Smush freaking Parker for Derek Fisher and Pau Gasol. Bynum is light years better. Farmar played a few games in the d-league before the playoffs last season, and has improved tremendously. Our bench has gone from one of the worst to one of the better. Sasha and Vlad have finally started to hit shots, sitting at 11th and 13th respectively in 3PT%. Your Suns are different too, in many ways better and with Shaq you solved some matchup problems that the Pau trade created. Bottom line is that we just don't know anything about these two teams, and historical perspective tells us absolutely nothing.

The Lakers 2000 world champs can be pimped all they want in the Smack Shack. I'm here to talk 2007/08 Phoenix Suns basketball.

Then why talk about 2004-2006 Phoenix Suns basketball in the process?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The point is, the Lakers especially, as well as the Suns are different teams even from what there was last year. The 2007-08 Lakers are better than any team the Lakers have had since the Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton team.



The changes of this year make the past irrelevant. Seriously.



You mention Grant Hill, but fail to mention Tim Thomas gone and Kurt Thomas gone. Without Tim Thomas, the Lakers most likely won two years ago. The Lakers players are maturing and getting better. Nash looks like he's lost a step. We are both integrating new players in Gasol and Shaq. We lost Kwame in the process, you lost Marion. These just aren't the same teams.



Nope, not yet. And our move for Gasol says we are gunning for it. We've beat you twice this season, and we'll likely lose to you twice this season. Funny thing is, none of those regular season matchups will tell us much since people were either out, or new to the team. We will go into the playoffs curious about how we match up, should we even meet up.



That is all that is relevant, and the Suns v. Lakers the last two years are not. If you can honestly look at the Lakers team, and how it is playing (look at the point differential, etc.) and say it is the same team your Suns beat the last two years, then you are not the smart NBA fan I take you for. We effectively traded Kwame and Smush freaking Parker for Derek Fisher and Pau Gasol. Bynum is light years better. Farmar played a few games in the d-league before the playoffs last season, and has improved tremendously. Our bench has gone from one of the worst to one of the better. Sasha and Vlad have finally started to hit shots, sitting at 11th and 13th respectively in 3PT%. Your Suns are different too, in many ways better and with Shaq you solved some matchup problems that the Pau trade created. Bottom line is that we just don't know anything about these two teams, and historical perspective tells us absolutely nothing.



Then why talk about 2004-2006 Phoenix Suns basketball in the process?

Donald we will just have to agree to disagree. My point is most of the main players are still on board and while there have been adjustments from both teams (and we can argue all day about how much who has improved) that maybe we can take something away from the previous playoff series. Seems like you disagree.

So I will say this. If Shaq plays at even 06 Heat level you don't stand a chance. Barring poor health I don't think thats much of a stretch.

Does speculative arguments work better for you?

 

[D-Dogg]

So I will say this. If Shaq plays at even 06 Heat level you don't stand a chance. Barring poor health I don't think thats much of a stretch.

Does speculative arguments work better for you?

First things first, LOL.

Donald we will just have to agree to disagree. My point is most of the main players are still on board and while there have been adjustments from both teams (and we can argue all day about how much who has improved) that maybe we can take something away from the previous playoff series. Seems like you disagree.

On your team, maybe the main players are still on board. On the Lakers however, absolutely not.

2006 playoffs: Smush-Kobe-Walton-Odom-Kwame as the starting lineup. (Bench guy Devean George/Sasha/Brian Cook all about 10 min)
2007 playoffs: Kobe-Walton-Odom-Kwame and rookie Farmar who had his first two starts the last two days of the season. (smush and sasha?)

2008 playoffs projected: Fisher-Kobe-Odom-Gasol-Bynum (Farmar/Vlad)

A hell of a lot better paper lineup, at least. Kobe and Odom are the only things the same, and Lamar at a different position.


I don't even think your argument flies for the Suns.

2006 Nash-Bell-Marion-Thomas-Diaw (Barbosa)
2007 Nash-Bell-Marion-Jones-Stoudemire (Barbosa)
2008? Nash-Bell-Hill-Stoudemire-Shaq (Barbosa)

Nash, Bell and Barbosa (he's the clear-cut sixth man), but that is change all over the place.