Put Amare On The Block....

[Divide Et Impera]

And Derrick Coleman didn't have 1/10th of the work ethic Amare has.

No offense, but that's an awful comparison.

That doesn't have a damned thing to do with the results on the court. We have a young, physically gifted big man with loads of unlimited potential who loafs on the court. Derrick Coleman is the most apt comparison for that. As much of a loafer as Coleman was, he still beats Amare on the boards. That's a sad state there....

 

[Rab]

Here is an idea. How about letting Amare play his natural position at PF instead of Center? Maybe then he can reach his full potential. That's a much better proposition then putting Amare on the block.

After all it only took the Suns how many years to get a legit big man????

I agree. I don't care if he has played C for a couple years now. I don't care if he's been on the All NBA First Team as a C. You put another decent big next to Amare, and he'll produce. He's a PF.

The backlash against Amare is ridiculous.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I agree. I don't care if he has played C for a couple years now. I don't care if he's been on the All NBA First Team as a C. You put another decent big next to Amare, and he'll produce. He's a PF.

The backlash against Amare is ridiculous.

That would be the case if Amare weren't expected to be our #1. He's a #2, period. He consistently gets outscored and/or outrebounded in his man matchups - save for a few games.

WE don't need a #1 big man next to him, either. To make him effective, we need another #2 big man. For all his efforts, Marion is a #3 tweener - a Cedric Ceballos. This past summer, when rumors of KG coming here were hot, I stated that KG and Amare would be perfect together. KG is probably the greatest #2 big man of all time.

If we can't get a legit #2 big to put next to Amare, I am fully prepared to trade Amare for a legit#2 who has the fire and passion for the game that Amare lacks (ie, Boozer). Then, at least we know we have a #2, not some primadonna, loafing, wannabe #1....

 

[da_suns_fan]

I agree. I don't care if he has played C for a couple years now. I don't care if he's been on the All NBA First Team as a C. You put another decent big next to Amare, and he'll produce. He's a PF.

The backlash against Amare is ridiculous.

Its not ridiculous....he's been dogging it all year long.

All he cares about is his offense and recognition and not about doing the little things to win ball games.

I watched the closing minutes of the Hornets game again the other night. With under two minutes to go, The Hornets missed a three from the corner and Chander was able to box IN Amare and get the long rebound.

On the Suns next possession, Raja missed a three from the corner (that would have tied it) and Amare watched the rebound go right over him without even putting a hand up.

On the Suns last possession, Marion missed his jumper with almost three seconds left on the clock.

Amare just stood there instead of fouling.

He plays with zero heart. He's a bum and I don't want him anymore. Let him worry about his ppg somewhere else.

 

[LV-Suns]

Its not ridiculous....he's been dogging it all year long.

All he cares about is his offense and recognition and not about doing the little things to win ball games.

I watched the closing minutes of the Hornets game again the other night. With under two minutes to go, The Hornets missed a three from the corner and Chander was able to box IN Amare and get the long rebound.

On the Suns next possession, Raja missed a three from the corner (that would have tied it) and Amare watched the rebound go right over him without even putting a hand up.

On the Suns last possession, Marion missed his jumper with almost three seconds left on the clock.

Amare just stood there instead of fouling.

He plays with zero heart. He's a bum and I don't want him anymore. Let him worry about his ppg somewhere else.

Amare plays with no heart???

 

[Covert Rain]

Its not ridiculous....he's been dogging it all year long.

All he cares about is his offense and recognition and not about doing the little things to win ball games.

I watched the closing minutes of the Hornets game again the other night. With under two minutes to go, The Hornets missed a three from the corner and Chander was able to box IN Amare and get the long rebound.

On the Suns next possession, Raja missed a three from the corner (that would have tied it) and Amare watched the rebound go right over him without even putting a hand up.

On the Suns last possession, Marion missed his jumper with almost three seconds left on the clock.

Amare just stood there instead of fouling.

He plays with zero heart. He's a bum and I don't want him anymore. Let him worry about his ppg somewhere else.

He's been doggin it?!?!? He plays with zero heart???

Dude...... your freaking ridiculous. Are you out there with him? Are you the one gong to practice, playing in the games, putting up offensive numbers against good centers? You don't have a clue.

PS. Everybody stood around on that last play until the last few seconds.

 

[Freddie]

Amare is our only inside presence and he has a knack for stepping his game up in the playoffs.

The whole team looks like a team that isn't very interested in putting forth 100% until the playoffs. If we were to trade Amare we would be embarassed in the playoffs by a team that has excellent perimeter defense.

Amare and Nash single handedly won game 4 for us last year down the stretch. No way Marion and Nash execute the pick and roll as well as Amareand Nash in crunch time. Say what you want about Amare, but behind Nash, he's the most important cog of this team in a championship run.

I realize people have to have things to talk about, but I remember what the Suns looked like without Amare. We went down 3-1 to the Lakers and it took a Raja miracle turnaround to give us a 3-2 lead against the Clippers.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

That doesn't have a damned thing to do with the results on the court.

Sure it does. Amare if anything looks tentative because of his knee. Derrick Coleman ALWAYS gave the impression that he just didn't care. There's a pretty big difference between health and lacsidasical nature.

 

[Rab]

Its not ridiculous....he's been dogging it all year long.

All he cares about is his offense and recognition and not about doing the little things to win ball games.

I watched the closing minutes of the Hornets game again the other night. With under two minutes to go, The Hornets missed a three from the corner and Chander was able to box IN Amare and get the long rebound.

On the Suns next possession, Raja missed a three from the corner (that would have tied it) and Amare watched the rebound go right over him without even putting a hand up.

On the Suns last possession, Marion missed his jumper with almost three seconds left on the clock.

Amare just stood there instead of fouling.

He plays with zero heart. He's a bum and I don't want him anymore. Let him worry about his ppg somewhere else.

This post is as ridiculous as saying Amare backlash is ridiculous.

I didn't see anyone rushing to foul on that play. Good Lord.

The guy has proven his worth here. In the playoffs, no other player sans Steve plays better. And you want to trade him? For what? You're not going to get anything better for him.

The guys gets his ass kicked every night guarding players that he shouldn't be guarding night in and night out. He defense is not good, but niether is Boozer's, neither is Dirk's.

He's not being put in a situation that is going to maximize his production to this team. Period.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure it does. Amare if anything looks tentative because of his knee. Derrick Coleman ALWAYS gave the impression that he just didn't care. There's a pretty big difference between health and lacsidasical nature.

Thank you. The way Amare acts on the court and the way Coleman did are light years apart. Not to mention that Coleman looked like he ate a dozen donuts before every game. Way to compare apples to oranges.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

He defense is not good, but niether is Boozer's, neither is Dirk's.

Wait.. You're telling me Dirk plays defense?

 

[nowagimp]

The comparisons to DC are absurd, pathetic. Suns fans have very little patience for their players coming back from injury. Maybe they need to live with big or little Jake again for awhile to understand what the suns have in amare. I remember the trade nash threads when the suns went out and got Raja, KT, JR and Nash had a bad 12-15 game start. "Trade him while his value is High" was one of the chants. Then he went out and got MVP, twice. Amare will not regain his strength until mid year, lets see what happens then.

 

[arwillan]

Wait.. You're telling me Dirk plays defense?

dirk and boozer may be poor defensively, but unlike amare they make up for it in other ways. Dirk is much like nash....the heart of his team even without defensive ability. he creates plays, he spreads the floor, he passes, he rebounds well, and most importantly he does all of that every single night. \
Boozer is not a good defender either, but he rebounds well and plays very consistent basketball much like dirk.
Amare rebounds when he wants to, blocks shots occasionally, and gets himself into foul trouble. some games he'll drop 30 points and dunk over anyone the defense throws at him, some games he'll settle for the jumper and not even make an attempt at the offensive glass.

 

[jandaman]

This post is as ridiculous as saying Amare backlash is ridiculous.

I didn't see anyone rushing to foul on that play. Good Lord.

The guy has proven his worth here. In the playoffs, no other player sans Steve plays better. And you want to trade him? For what? You're not going to get anything better for him.

The guys gets his ass kicked every night guarding players that he shouldn't be guarding night in and night out. He defense is not good, but niether is Boozer's, neither is Dirk's.

He's not being put in a situation that is going to maximize his production to this team. Period.

Boozer plays tougher at the moment and definitely a couple hundred miles ahead in rebounding.... Dirk has never played much defense... but his coach's policies has protected him from being exposed much... which is what good coaches do.....


it'll come down to decent defense for this team to beat the west and east elite.... this season atleast thats for sure..

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Suns get screwed on any Amare deal, just like the Lakers would get screwed on any Kobe deal.

I hope to hell we don't deal Amare. The ONLY player I would consider trading him for right now would be Dwight Howard.

 

[Rab]

dirk and boozer may be poor defensively, but unlike amare they make up for it in other ways. Dirk is much like nash....the heart of his team even without defensive ability. he creates plays, he spreads the floor, he passes, he rebounds well, and most importantly he does all of that every single night. \
Boozer is not a good defender either, but he rebounds well and plays very consistent basketball much like dirk.
Amare rebounds when he wants to, blocks shots occasionally, and gets himself into foul trouble. some games he'll drop 30 points and dunk over anyone the defense throws at him, some games he'll settle for the jumper and not even make an attempt at the offensive glass.

The difference between those two and Amare though, is that they are not asked to anchor their interior defense. I don't know so much about the Mavs this year, but they had Diop and Dampier to help cover Dirk's interior defensive mistakes. In Utah they have AK-47, who is a great team defender, and is always helping out, or they put in someone like Collins during stretches to help, who isn't great, but he takes pressure off Boozer.

Amare doesn't have that luxury. There are games where he is left almost all alone because Marion is sometimes on a perimeter player, or he has his hands full with a bigger post player. Amare relies on Shawn, and Grant for double teams. Amare worked better on defense when he could guard a 4, and KT was in there. This year he is better when Skinner is in there.

I don't see why he gets so much grief for his lack of defense. You could knock him for his bad rotations, but we don't have anyone to help mask his mistakes. We have to do enough of that with Nash, even though his defense isn't from lack of effort.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns get screwed on any Amare deal, just like the Lakers would get screwed on any Kobe deal.

I hope to hell we don't deal Amare. The ONLY player I would consider trading him for right now would be Dwight Howard.

 

[nowagimp]

The difference between those two and Amare though, is that they are not asked to anchor their interior defense. I don't know so much about the Mavs this year, but they had Diop and Dampier to help cover Dirk's interior defensive mistakes. In Utah they have AK-47, who is a great team defender, and is always helping out, or they put in someone like Collins during stretches to help, who isn't great, but he takes pressure off Boozer.

Amare doesn't have that luxury. There are games where he is left almost all alone because Marion is sometimes on a perimeter player, or he has his hands full with a bigger post player. Amare relies on Shawn, and Grant for double teams. Amare worked better on defense when he could guard a 4, and KT was in there. This year he is better when Skinner is in there.

I don't see why he gets so much grief for his lack of defense. You could knock him for his bad rotations, but we don't have anyone to help mask his mistakes. We have to do enough of that with Nash, even though his defense isn't from lack of effort.

Yeah, what he said. Ask Dirk to anchor the interior and they get smoked, like last year when avery tried to go small against the warriors. Yeah thats what great coaches DONT do, put nowitski in as your defensive anchor. Avery looked like a fool, Don Nelson "obe kenobed" him.

Marion put 26/15 on Boozer the other night as I recall, guess carlos forgot to deny the passing lane as shawn sure didnt take him off the dribble. Amare has the problem of perimeter penetrators flying past their man(often steve Nash or LB, or an injured Raja Bell who is not back yet) and drawing contact at the hoop. Amare also gets some ridiculous cheap calls, like Boozer pushing him from the back into Brewer and amare picking up the foul.

Amare has to back up some terrible perimeter defense lately, these guys are getting to the hoop too fast. Tim Duncan has a nice group of perimeter defenders to prevent this, and the Mavs have some decent perimeter defenders to help out and to prevent ridiculous penetrations. the suns have been one of the easiest teams to penetrate on and it aint amare thats the reason.

That doesnt mean that amare doesnt need alot of work on defense, and he is not a '5' defensively, forget it. As usual, some sun get singled out and blamed for teamwide problems.

 

[da_suns_fan]

The Suns get screwed on any Amare deal, just like the Lakers would get screwed on any Kobe deal.

I hope to hell we don't deal Amare. The ONLY player I would consider trading him for right now would be Dwight Howard.

Uhhhh....ya think?

Lets see....Dwight Howard unleashed the mother of all ownage TWICE on Amare this season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3818

31 point and 20 rebound AVERAGE in two games.

But Howard is a SUPERSTAR! You can understand him having big games against Amare since he has big games against everyone, right?

But what about:
Chris Wilcox (23 & 11)
Andrew Bynum (14 & 13)
Ilgausakas (22 & 13)
Shaq (25 & 10)
Chris Kaman (17 & 14)
Yao Ming (31 & 13)
Al Jefferson (32 & 20)
The entire Miami front court last week (all had double doubles)
Carlos Boozer (24 & 13)
Tyson Chandler (14 & 18)

Thats 12 (including both Dwight Howard games) that Amare was thoroughly and utterly owned by his opponent.

He's played in 21 games this season. That means he's been outplayed 57% of the time.

What am I missing here? Why is everyone still on his jock? He doesn't have it anymore. He lost it with that last surgery.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Thank God! Someone else gets it!!!!

 

[nowagimp]

Uhhhh....ya think?

Lets see....Dwight Howard unleashed the mother of all ownage TWICE on Amare this season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3818

31 point and 20 rebound AVERAGE in two games.

But Howard is a SUPERSTAR! You can understand him having big games against Amare since he has big games against everyone, right?

But what about:
Chris Wilcox (23 & 11)
Andrew Bynum (14 & 13)
Ilgausakas (22 & 13)
Shaq (25 & 10)
Chris Kaman (17 & 14)
Yao Ming (31 & 13)
Al Jefferson (32 & 20)
The entire Miami front court last week (all had double doubles)
Carlos Boozer (24 & 13)
Tyson Chandler (14 & 18)

Thats 12 (including both Dwight Howard games) that Amare was thoroughly and utterly owned by his opponent.

He's played in 21 games this season. That means he's been outplayed 57% of the time.

What am I missing here? Why is everyone still on his jock? He doesn't have it anymore. He lost it with that last surgery.

Dude amare is not even averaging 30 mins/game, theres 18 minutes unaccounted for there, more that 1/3 of the game every night. Dwight Howard has gone at least 30/15 no less than nine times this year, including 34/16 against Tim Duncan and the spurs, so I think your stats on Howard/amare are not especially meaningful regarding amares defense. Howard ate up TD for craps sake. Oh and you do realize that marion was defending Boozer most of the game, right?

 

[Covert Rain]

Uhhhh....ya think?

Lets see....Dwight Howard unleashed the mother of all ownage TWICE on Amare this season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3818

31 point and 20 rebound AVERAGE in two games.

But Howard is a SUPERSTAR! You can understand him having big games against Amare since he has big games against everyone, right?

But what about:
Chris Wilcox (23 & 11)
Andrew Bynum (14 & 13)
Ilgausakas (22 & 13)
Shaq (25 & 10)
Chris Kaman (17 & 14)
Yao Ming (31 & 13)
Al Jefferson (32 & 20)
The entire Miami front court last week (all had double doubles)
Carlos Boozer (24 & 13)
Tyson Chandler (14 & 18)

Thats 12 (including both Dwight Howard games) that Amare was thoroughly and utterly owned by his opponent.

He's played in 21 games this season. That means he's been outplayed 57% of the time.

What am I missing here? Why is everyone still on his jock? He doesn't have it anymore. He lost it with that last surgery.

Amare also put up some big numbers of his own in some of those games. So that means what exactly in your eyes?? They owned Amare but Amare owned them?? You make no sense. At the very least you could call it a wash.

Also, Amare has worked Dwight Howard plenty of times in the past.

However, lets look at this. Between November 23rd and Dec 07, Amare averaged 26.5 points and 9.6 rebounds. During that stretch the likes of Yao, Dwight and Curry could not stop Amare either.

That 8 game stretch matches any 8 game stretch that any other center in the NBA has had this season. So you can't use what people did to Amare without pointing out what Amare did to them.

Also, last time I checked the Suns rotate other guys against the opposing teams centers and I am sure not every point or rebound was scored with Amare on all of those players.

PS. That would mean in at least 50% of the games this season Amare has put up dominate numbers against the opposing centers as well. For a guy playing out of position...that's pretty damn impressive to me.

 

[taz02]

Uhhhh....ya think?

Lets see....Dwight Howard unleashed the mother of all ownage TWICE on Amare this season:
But what about:
Chris Wilcox (23 & 11)
Andrew Bynum (14 & 13)
Ilgausakas (22 & 13)
Shaq (25 & 10)
Chris Kaman (17 & 14)
Yao Ming (31 & 13)
Al Jefferson (32 & 20)
The entire Miami front court last week (all had double doubles)
Carlos Boozer (24 & 13)
Tyson Chandler (14 & 18)

Thats 12 (including both Dwight Howard games) that Amare was thoroughly and utterly owned by his opponent.

He's played in 21 games this season. That means he's been outplayed 57% of the time.

What am I missing here? Why is everyone still on his

jock? He doesn't have it anymore. He lost it with that last surgery.
[/QUOTE]
 
Wow, that is scary. Those numbers are huge. I'm curious how many opposing players have had season high scoring or rebounding games against the suns this season. 
 
Anyone have an easy way to compile that stat?

 

[da_suns_fan]

Dude amare is not even averaging 30 mins/game, theres 18 minutes unaccounted for there, more that 1/3 of the game every night. Dwight Howard has gone at least 30/15 no less than nine times this year, including 34/16 against Tim Duncan and the spurs, so I think your stats on Howard/amare are not especially meaningful regarding amares defense. Howard ate up TD for craps sake. Oh and you do realize that marion was defending Boozer most of the game, right?

What does that say about Amare?

"Yo Shawn...we know this guy is much taller and stronger than you, but we can't have Amare defend him cuz he'll own us all night long. Good luck buddy."

Look, Im a Suns fan through and through and I want them AND AMARE to be successful, but trust me...

AMARE DOESN'T GET IT!!!!

He doesn't understand that big men on teams with rebounding problems shouldn't be working on their three point shot.

He doesn't understand the commitment to defense it takes to win a championship.

Im wasting my time though. Sarver is NEVER going to trade Amare or fire D'Antoni.

 

[Covert Rain]

What does that say about Amare?

"Yo Shawn...we know this guy is much taller and stronger than you, but we can't have Amare defend him cuz he'll own us all night long. Good luck buddy."

Look, Im a Suns fan through and through and I want them AND AMARE to be successful, but trust me...

AMARE DOESN'T GET IT!!!!

He doesn't understand that big men on teams with rebounding problems shouldn't be working on their three point shot.

He doesn't understand the commitment to defense it takes to win a championship.

Im wasting my time though. Sarver is NEVER going to trade Amare or fire D'Antoni.

No I would say D'Antoni doesn't get it.

So Amare works on his 3 point shot. So what? That doesn't mean he doesn't work other parts of his game.