Q & A: Who's to Blame?

Mitch

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For as long as any of us fans can remember, these have been glaringly troubling patterns for the Cardinals:

1. Playing hard for one week to prove their salt as NFL players, and then playing soft the next week or two or three. Why?

That's the climate that has surrounded this team regardless of who the recent coaches have been.

Q: Are the coaches to blame?
A: Yes. They are. Motivation and preparation...are a coach's top two priorities. Vince Tobin was solid on preparation (not great, but solid), but was not a motivator. Dave McGinnis was the opposite...had motivational skills, but didn't have the foggiest idea as to how to prepare a team to win, and the lack of preparation leads to quick losses, and as Mac found out, even if certain players wanted to play hard to be loyal to him, they wouldn't. The physical and emotional toll of losing week after week are too great.

Dennis Green? Really hasn't been proficient at either, which is why the team still cannot win with stronger talent. Motivating through fear is anachronistic in today's NFL...Coaches todayhave to engage their players and appeal to their senses of purpose, skill and loyalty...while Bill Parcells appears to be a volatile coach on the outside, behind the scenes he is in his players' grills...not just to chastize them, but to build a positive rapport with them...it's a balance and a give and take.

Q: What kind of a coach can turn this stigma around?
A: The kind of coach who can give the players edges in motivation and preparation. It takes a certain charisma and/or integrity...but it also takes a high level of intelligence. For all of John Gruden's foibles, this coach has the charisma, the peremptory demeanor, the brass cajones (as we saw in his decision to go for the two points to win Sunday) and the knowledge/intellect to give his players the confidence that they can win. Tony Dungee is a man of integrity...plus a coach who is fastidiously committed to detail...he's custom made for winning in the NFL...just as Bill Bellichick is. Dick Vermeil? He has the heart of a lion...don't you think the players love knowing that he bleeds for them? Charlie Weis...will look you in the eye, tell you the truth and then give you the right play at the right time. These kinds of communication and preparation are what allows teams to win.

Q: Why do the Cardinals play hard and well one week, and then soft the next?
A: Football is the most physically punishing team sport. If the players feel they can get away with playing soft and still collect a fat paycheck, they will. The only way this can be stopped is if a coach truly gives his team the edge it takes for them to win on a consitent basis. Obviously, the players aren't all that worried about playing soft or rubbing Dennis Green the wrong way. Just ask Pete Kendall. He'll tell you that Dennis Green did him a favor. Yeah, the fringe players like Reggie Newhouse will worry...but not the established vets...not the Adrian Wilsons of the world who just signed lucrative extensions, and know that the signing bonus money is guaranteed, and know that if Green, out of spite, cuts him, that multiple teams will be lined up to acquire him the way they were for Kendall. Dennis Green has to somehow motivate the Adrian Wilsons...but he clearly doesn't have what it takes, not when Wilson is playing this poorly and lethargically, for a player of his abilities. Wilson has lost interest and he doesn't want to wake up Monday morning feeling extra sore...not if he can help it.

Q: What really motivates the players today?
A: #1:Money. Give players financial incentives to play well and hard...and, oh, they will.
#2. Highlight Reels. For the players when they make a highlight reel, it's like looking in the mirror and seeing Brad Pitt. Nothing stokes their egos more.
#3 Winning. A real panacea, no question.
#4 Pleasing the Fans. Notice how the Cardinals do play harder at home? Pleasing the fans is a motivation...even if there are only 31,000 of them in a 72,000 seat stadium.
#5 Pleasing the Coaches. When coaches have the players' respect and admiration...you bet...and with the special ones like Parcells, he can get his players to play hard day in and day out.

Q: Did the players respect and admire Vince Tobin?
A: Respect, yes. Admire, no. They respected his preparation, but he was not charismatic in the least.

Q: Did the players respect and admire Dave McGinnis?
A: Respect, no. Admire, yes. The players admired Mac's passion for the game, but he didn't give them any special knowledge about the game, and his preparation was poor.

Q: Do the players respect and admire Dennis Green?
A: Respect, yes, at first because of his track record...but now, no, for the same reasons they did not respect Mac...no edge in preparation. Admire, no. It's hard to admire a self-absorbed egomaniac.

Q: How do you know what the players think?
A: It's all in their faces on the football field and on the sidelines. The only player who seemingly has gone near Dennis Green on the sidelines this season was Josh McCown, who in the glow of an impressive win in Mexico tried to revel in the success with Green and Green basically threw a mock smile at McCown and turned away. Look at Kurt Warner's face on this week's tape. He's a paragon of ambivalence. Look at Adrian Wilson's face...there's not the fire there was in his eyes that there was at this time last year. It's obvious. These players are broken, as is their spirit. They avoid Green like the plague on the sidelines...they basically have rendered him useless. Even worse, he avoids them. Green stands there as listless as a barnacle.

Q: Does coaching have anything to do with injuries?
A: When teams like the Cardinals have a preponderence of them seemingly year after year, the answer is yes. The players aren't faking injuries...but injuries can often be a by-product of the climate...a product of a lack of proper conditioning and physical and mental preparation...and a manifestation of the anguish and frustration of losing.

Q: When did this season, full of high expectations, start to slide?
A: Between the third and fourth pre-season games. After a stirring, up-tempo performance in the first two pre-season games, there was a conspicuous difference in the players' approach, tempo and body language in the last two. Save the team's spontaneous excitement in Mexico and spots of spirited play at home, this team has been disappointingly lethargic. The tempo was lost...and like anything in team sports, tempo and discipline and the will to win can't be turned off and on like a faucet.

Q: How much are the Bidwills to blame?
A: Unfortunately, they deserve a good deal of the blame. They hired an underqualified head coach in Dave McGinnis. And they took a major risk on Dennis Green. Argue this all you want, but there were good reasons why Green was not be heavily pursued by NFL teams during his two-year hiatus from coaching. Neither Al Davis nor Daniel Snyder ever had any serious interest in Green. His interviews with them were perfunctory at best.

But the Bidwills are also to blame for trying to win NFL football games with weak guards and defensive tackles. They should have the football people in place who understand what wins NFL football games. Obviously, neither Dennis Green nor Rod Graves understand what it takes to run the football and stop the run. They had the cap space to address all the major needs on this team and they failed miserably.

And the Bidwills are to blame for not learning from past mistakes...like hiring offensive coordinators who have never called a play in an NFL game. As predictable and unimaginative as Marc Trestman was, at least he had experience as a play caller in the NFL, and, was it purely coincidence that he was the last Cardinal OC to get this franchise to the playoffs?

Q: Will the Bidwills stick with Dennis Green?
A. No way. Not a chance. They will learn from this mistake because they know they have too much at stake in trying to fill the new stadium to not do everything possible to give the franchise a fresh burst of optimism going into next season.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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Mitch, although you make clear, concise, correct, profound, truthful,well rounded, comments about this team, your hatred of Green has completely rendered your insight moot.:sarcasm:


I have to agree with you on most of this...
 

Crazy Canuck

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: Will the Bidwills stick with Dennis Green?
A. No way. Not a chance. They will learn from this mistake because they know they have too much at stake in trying to fill the new stadium to not do everything possible to give the franchise a fresh burst of optimism going into next season.


If they do...

will you promise not to post until they sell the team? :wave:
 

ajcardfan

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Crazy Canuck said:
: Will the Bidwills stick with Dennis Green?
A. No way. Not a chance. They will learn from this mistake because they know they have too much at stake in trying to fill the new stadium to not do everything possible to give the franchise a fresh burst of optimism going into next season.


If they do...

will you promise not to post until they sell the team? :wave:

I agree that they will not let Green go. No need for Mitch to promise to not post anymore though. He made that mistake once, I doubt he'll do it again.
 

kerouac9

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Q. Didn't you promise that you'd stop posting here for as long as the Dennis Green era lasted?

Q. Would you please go back?
 

CaptTurbo

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Mitch said:
The kind of coach who can give the players edges in motivation and preparation. It takes a certain charisma .


Your boy Dave Mac fits the bill! Bring him in!

Yes I remember you were quite high on him. And not on the proven winner Green.
 

BigDavis75

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swd1974 said:
Your boy Dave Mac fits the bill! Bring him in!

Yes I remember you were quite high on him. And not on the proven winner Green.

It's not like Green is 8-17 since coming to AZ. If that's a proven winner you should re-evaluate.
 

BigDavis75

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Mitch said:
I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green. I hate Green, I hate Green, I hate Green.

Okay Mitch we get it. Green deserves at least 2 more years to turn us around, I mean you make good points but some of the stuff is bordering on ridiculous.
 

SuperSpck

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As fans, this is the situation that we are dealt. High highs, low lows. I think the team could do a lot worse than Green. I'm glad it wasn't this team that hired Spurrier a few years back.
 

joeshmo

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Mitch said:
Q: Did the players respect and admire Vince Tobin?
A: Respect, yes. Admire, no. They respected his preparation, but he was not charismatic in the least.

Q: Did the players respect and admire Dave McGinnis?
A: Respect, no. Admire, yes. The players admired Mac's passion for the game, but he didn't give them any special knowledge about the game, and his preparation was poor.

Q: Do the players respect and admire Dennis Green?
A: Respect, yes, at first because of his track record...but now, no, for the same reasons they did not respect Mac...no edge in preparation. Admire, no. It's hard to admire a self-absorbed egomaniac.
Come on Mitch. There are a lot of things you can fault Green for, I mean a lot. You wont get any arguement from me their.

But you know how the players feel or felt about their coaches how. Becuase you can just tell by looking at their faces on the sideline. You have zero inside knowledge of this teams player or inner workings.

Yet you still choice to bring up stuff that you have no way of knowing and seems to come out of thin air from a really biased point of view, or you find things of fault where there just isnt any fault to be had That is why some will always find it hard for to take you seriously even though a lot of what you are saying rings true.
 

D-Dogg

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Yeah, I clicked. Yeah, I knew what would be inside. Yeah, I don't know why in the world I did it...maybe because I was hoping yet again Mitch would be bringing insight like he did under another name and not more "peeuuuwww Denny" diatribes.

Color me idiot.
 

jefftheshark

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I think that I am becoming a psychic, because I knew who was to blame as soon as I saw the author.


The Shark
 

jstadvl

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Let me say

this. You may not agree with him, but, as one other poster said"some of what he's saying is true".
Next is why are you all being so rude. Asking if Green slept with his wife?
What is it with you guys? Some of you get so annoyed because someone likes or dislikes somebody you feel the opposite way about that you want to run him off the board?
C'mon. your supposed to be grown ups.
Tell him what points you don't agree with. Can you?
I'm not blind to the fact that it appears he doesn't like Green. AND anyone's continual ranting, about anything, gets on peoples nerves. But, cut the guy some slack and at least be respectfull.
I agree that he can't possibly back up some of his claims, JHO.
Some of this is really rude!
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.
 

ajcardfan

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Mitch said:
For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.

Very well said, Mitch. :thumbup: The one thing we all have in common is we are all just "bone tired" of bad, losing football.
 

jefftheshark

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Mitch said:
For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.

Sorry, now that I see that this is therapy for you, I'll knock off the comments. Just realize that we are all in the same boat and we all want the same things: wins.

And maybe that is what Green wants also.

That he is not going about it the same way you would doesn't necessarilly make him wrong, just different.

The Shark
 

nidan

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Card Trader is taking a short 3 day break to rest and recover.

Profanity even misspelled with get you a timeout.
 

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You can't evaluate a coach by the televised faces of the players on the sidelines during a losing game. I still think the current situation has far more upside than the Bugel, Ryan, Tobin, or McGinnis eras. Yes, Green needs to get over himself a little, bring in some better coaches, and not be so capricious. But I do think Green has carved out a place for the coach that has been otherwise handcuffed for years.
 

Crazy Canuck

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Mitch said:
For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.

Well, I'm glad you added this to the earliar diatribe.

For some odd reason you were beginning to remind of the characterization of Senator Barry Goldwater in the 60s.

When running for President, his unofficial slogan (if I remember correctly) was: "In your gut you know he's right". Which was easily countered by the Kennedy forces with: ".... and in your mind you know he's nuts!" :D
 

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BigDavis75 said:
It's not like Green is 8-17 since coming to AZ. If that's a proven winner you should re-evaluate.


He inherited crap talent and he has had two drafts which have not been bad. If you can recall the fiasco with Graves at the helm. We got Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace. Johnson is gone IMO. Pace has some redemptive value but for a #1 pick he needs to be more than possessing only some value.

Also, take a long look at the injury list this year. It is unbelievable.

Crap talent, crap attitude and an injury list longer than my kid's christmas list is why this team is in it's current state.

I thought if we played .500 ball then we would be over achieving but it was possible. But, with the injuries, no way.
 

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ajcardfan said:
I agree that they will not let Green go. No need for Mitch to promise to not post anymore though. He made that mistake once, I doubt he'll do it again.

Actually, that was Walter Mitchell. :sarcasm: :biglaugh:

ajcardfan said:
Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him.

At least be honest...you hated Green from the very day he was hired...way before he made a single move or coached a single game. Each week thereafter, you have used this board to say the exact same thing...week, after week, after week.

You pimped McGinnis and Preston Parsons...how are those moves working out for ya?

Q How long are you going to continue to post the same drivle about Green?
A Hopefully, not any longer than your comparing Whitehurst to Big Ben.
 

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They had a blurb on ESPN about the Chiefs and what has gone wrong with the vaunted improved defense. They said the mistake the Chiefs made was they added skill position players on defense like Derrick Johnson and Patrick Surtain, but they COMPLETELY ignored the middle of their defense and now their DT's get shoved all over the field and the MLB is making most of his tackles way downfield.

I think that's precisely the mistake Green made this offseason. Admittedly with Rolle, Berry, Dansby, Pace, Davis etc all out it's probably irrelevant now but the fact is Green completely neglected the middle of the field. HIs one "move" was to let McKinnon walk and promote Hayes to MLB before he got hurt, and then drafting Mitchell, otherwise we completely ignored the middle.

And before someone says he inherited the worst team in the NFL you can't fix everything in 2 years my answer is no you can't, especially if you're not spending all the cap money you get and are cutting players timing the cut to intentionally take the bulk of the caphit THIS year. So even eating contracts we wind up saving a lot of caproom and we're a donut on the field, no middle.

I would also question Green's offseason acquisitions this year I think he made one mistake after another. He gave Okeafor a ton of money when a better player, Bryce Fisher, was available from a division rival(Rams) as a UFA, for LESS money. I realize Okeafor's been a good player longer than Fisher but Green keeps telling us he likes to get players at 27-28 years old coming into their own, Fisher fit that to a T, has twice as many sacks as Okeafor this year, and IMHO is a better run defender although neither of them are particularly good against the run.

MLB people say hey Green "tried" to upgrade the middle going after Hartwell, again completely ignoring Antonio Pierce(as far as we know) who is pretty equal as a player. Hartwell is bigger by about 10 pounds maybe Green didn't want to add a smallish MLB but again Pierce is completely outplaying Hartwell and the money for Hartwell was so high all we did was bid up his value. Pierce was having a much better year than Hartwell before Hartwell got hurt.

The point is instead of pursuing "value" players coming into their own Green overpaid for Okeafor, chased after Hartwell and we wound up adding Okeafor, Griffith and Huff none of whom really totally addressed a problem. Okeafor is good just not as good as we're paying him, Huff appears to be a bust, and Griffith again he'll light you up and get on Sportscenter but he's not good in coverage and is not a FS and that hurts our pass defense. Smart guy, leader, good clubhouse guy to have around for depth.

To me most of the problems with this team started in the offseason Green completely botched free agency, and drafted a bunch of guys who slipped and really Rolle is the only rookie who consistently contributed right away. JJ is starting to now, Brown played a lot but out of necessity, wasn't ready, the rest have largely done nothing.

That could have been less problematic if the coaching staff was so good at preparation and teaching that they got the best out of the players, but they don't.

I can't stress enough how disappointed I am with this team. WIth all the injuries now I can almost give Green a mulligan but I really believe the problems started in the offseason when Green made bad a series of poor choices.
 

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Russ,

1) How come Graves gets a "free pass" on last off-season? If he is acting like a GM, aren't these GM issues?

2) How do we know which free agents didn't want to come here? If I was a free agent being pursued by several teams, Arizona might not be my first choice. The reasons for this could be football related, or as mundane as proximity to family or friends.

3) While I agree about the "middle", why are we not questioning the apparent lack of interest in Pat Williams, or a DT in the draft? If there was a mistake made last year, I think this one was more glaring.

4) Green relies on his staff for the x's and o's. He fired Woods last year after making less than glowing remarks about his playcalling. Maybe Rowan is soon to be under the bus, along with (hopefully) Lindsey. But we can only guess as to the inner workings of the team, so all we can do is wait.

The Shark
 

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Russ Smith said:
I would also question Green's offseason acquisitions this year I think he made one mistake after another. He gave Okeafor a ton of money when a better player, Bryce Fisher, was available from a division rival(Rams) as a UFA, for LESS money. I realize Okeafor's been a good player longer than Fisher but Green keeps telling us he likes to get players at 27-28 years old coming into their own, Fisher fit that to a T, has twice as many sacks as Okeafor this year, and IMHO is a better run defender although neither of them are particularly good against the run.

MLB people say hey Green "tried" to upgrade the middle going after Hartwell, again completely ignoring Antonio Pierce(as far as we know) who is pretty equal as a player. Hartwell is bigger by about 10 pounds maybe Green didn't want to add a smallish MLB but again Pierce is completely outplaying Hartwell and the money for Hartwell was so high all we did was bid up his value. Pierce was having a much better year than Hartwell before Hartwell got hurt.

First I read an artcile a while back that stated that Pierce wanted to stay within the division to stick it to the Redskins for not treating him right in contract negotiations and he wanted to stay on the east coast. As for completely ignoring Pierce that is total conjecture we just dont know, and all signs point to him probably not even taking are calls.

Second I dont think you are looking at the complete picture when comparing Fisher and Okeafer. Fisher does have 6.5 sacks compared to Okeafers 3.5 but Okeafer has 6 Tackles for loss comapred to Fishers 1.5. Plus Okeafer often drops back into a 4th LB role on 3 man lines and even drops back into a LB role on 5 man line zone blitzing hence lessoning his chances of getting a sack. Pendy stated that he like Okeafer becuase he can drop back into a LB role and can be used in various ways. Remember Pendy likes guys who can do more then one thing becuase of his plethora of schemes he likes to use, his players need to be able to handle more then just one duty. The only thing Fisher has over Okeafer is that he is cheaper IMO.
 

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He also got Warner and Redmond, unfortunately Ross. I agree that he neglected the guards, figured we had two centers/guards; but that is still a gamble to make on unproven players and it didn't pan out.

I don't think you can call the free agency acquisitions "mistakes", you do what you can and rely upon your position coaches and make some gambles. I think the biggest error, and one that Harry and "Mitch" both point to, is the inexperienced coaching and coordinators. That shows the most on Lindsey, when backups are brought in, they seem to do just as poorly or just as well as the starters. It probably also reflects upon Rowan, if he is drawing up plays that are too complex for our line and Lindsey isn't calling him out on it or isn't able to coach them to pull off the stunts. If good players are mediocre on the field, then that's bad coaching.

Clancy seems good as scheming but the defense is missing fundamentals with missed tackles and over pursuit. How many times did I hear Huff in position to make a play but miss? That's good scheme, bad execution; you cannot have bad execution when you take chances and leave an open field behind a missed tackle. This is probably where Green needs to get Clancy to focus on these issues, ESPECIALLY because of the injuries.

Green did get a mulligan with all the injuries, but this off-season will be the first true determining instance of whether he starts adjusting his coaching staff or just lets his ego run. It will be interesting.
 
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