Q & A: Who's to Blame?

[Duckjake]

They had a blurb on ESPN about the Chiefs and what has gone wrong with the vaunted improved defense. They said the mistake the Chiefs made was they added skill position players on defense like Derrick Johnson and Patrick Surtain, but they COMPLETELY ignored the middle of their defense and now their DT's get shoved all over the field and the MLB is making most of his tackles way downfield.

Oddly enough Kansas City is still ranked 7th in rushing defense.

I don't see how anyone could complain about their defense this season.
They've gone from giving up 114.6 ypgame rushing and 27.2 points in 2004 to 90.9 and 21.9 this season. Doesn't mean they don't need to beef up the middle of their Dline though.

Maybe ESPN accidently watched a tape of the Cardinals and their MLB's over the past 5 years.

BTW: the cards are giving up 125.7 and 26.7 points this season. Can we borrow Derrick Johnson?

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,

1) How come Graves gets a "free pass" on last off-season? If he is acting like a GM, aren't these GM issues?

2) How do we know which free agents didn't want to come here? If I was a free agent being pursued by several teams, Arizona might not be my first choice. The reasons for this could be football related, or as mundane as proximity to family or friends.

3) While I agree about the "middle", why are we not questioning the apparent lack of interest in Pat Williams, or a DT in the draft? If there was a mistake made last year, I think this one was more glaring.

4) Green relies on his staff for the x's and o's. He fired Woods last year after making less than glowing remarks about his playcalling. Maybe Rowan is soon to be under the bus, along with (hopefully) Lindsey. But we can only guess as to the inner workings of the team, so all we can do is wait.

The Shark

1) It's my belief that Green makes the personnel decisions and Graves gets them signed. I'm sure Graves has input, but personally I believe Green is running the draft and identifying which FA's he wants.

2) I don't know that that's why I put on Pierce "as far as we know".

3) That's what I meant by ignoring the middle, no upgrade at DT.

4) I agree we don't know precisely who does what.

 

[joeshmo]

3) While I agree about the "middle", why are we not questioning the apparent lack of interest in Pat Williams, or a DT in the draft? If there was a mistake made last year, I think this one was more glaring.

This is the one I am baffled at. Not really Fatty Patty, becuase he has not been that good at all. He did receive a small contract but he isnt even living up to that. But the draft, not a single big guy at all, with Ross K as your backup slant NT, that was just odd.

I wasnt looking for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder, but come on throw a dog a bone here and at least pick one in the 7th round to make it look like you are at least trying.

 

[joeshmo]

I will say that Huff looked like he was a backup plan when Hartwell didnt sign. He doesnt look to be in our long term future, he only signed a 2 year deal.

 

[joeshmo]

Oddly enough Kansas City is still ranked 7th in rushing defense.

I think what ESPN was trying to point out was that their D has been getting more and more abused as the season goes on becuase of the lack of beef up front the skill guys are getting abused and wearing down faster then usual.

 

[Russ Smith]

First I read an artcile a while back that stated that Pierce wanted to stay within the division to stick it to the Redskins for not treating him right in contract negotiations and he wanted to stay on the east coast. As for completely ignoring Pierce that is total conjecture we just dont know, and all signs point to him probably not even taking are calls.

Second I dont think you are looking at the complete picture when comparing Fisher and Okeafer. Fisher does have 6.5 sacks compared to Okeafers 3.5 but Okeafer has 6 Tackles for loss comapred to Fishers 1.5. Plus Okeafer often drops back into a 4th LB role on 3 man lines and even drops back into a LB role on 5 man line zone blitzing hence lessoning his chances of getting a sack. Pendy stated that he like Okeafer becuase he can drop back into a LB role and can be used in various ways. Remember Pendy likes guys who can do more then one thing becuase of his plethora of schemes he likes to use, his players need to be able to handle more then just one duty. The only thing Fisher has over Okeafer is that he is cheaper IMO.

Pierce played at Arizona in college and was born in Ontario California, so it's not like he's an East Coast guy, yes he has said he really wanted to show Washington they blew it by lowballing him but I think most free agents say that after signing with a rival. His final 3 was Giants, Vikings and Washington, he said the money was close but he felt Washington disrespected him and the Giants were a better fit for him than the Vikings.

Do I know for a fact we could have signed him, of course not, but as I said "as far as we know" we made no effort to get him. I suspect it's either his size, or his agent... Drew Rosenhaus, that put us off him.

Fisher is a better athlete than Okeafor so I suspect he could do all the things we ask Chike to do. Chike is a tweener, always has been, bit too small at DE, not fast enough for LB. The 49ers took a few years to find the spot for him and Seattle did the same thing. I don't think the guy is a bad player, but we totally overpaid for him and Fisher fits Green's FA MO to a T, guy we played against last year, weaken division opponent by taking him, right age, coming into his own etc.

 

[TheCardFan]

I think that's precisely the mistake Green made this offseason. Admittedly with Rolle, Berry, Dansby, Pace, Davis etc all out it's probably irrelevant now but the fact is Green completely neglected the middle of the field. HIs one "move" was to let McKinnon walk and promote Hayes to MLB before he got hurt, and then drafting Mitchell, otherwise we completely ignored the middle.

Agree to an extent.

The defense was great last year. By adding Okeafor, Rolle, and Griffith with the further development of Dockett, Dansby, and Wilson...I think we all expected at least the same results from last year and probably alot more (I know I did).

In addition, I think Hayes was an upgrade over McKinnon on paper and there were only two solid DT's that would have upgraded over Davis (Shaun Rogers who didn't make it to FA and Pat Williams who signed pretty quickly with Minny).

On offense. He has a very solid LT in Davis and signed what he thought was a huge upgrade at RT in Ross. Inside, he way overrated Bridges, Wells, and Step. That turned out to be huge.

Adding Warner and drafting Arrington were solid moves and should have really improved the offense but turned out to be moot with the failure of the line.

I think the overrating of the line was the fatal flaw...injuries and the regression of the defense were a total surprise and completed the disaster that is 2005.

 

[Russ Smith]

Clancy seems good as scheming but the defense is missing fundamentals with missed tackles and over pursuit. How many times did I hear Huff in position to make a play but miss? That's good scheme, bad execution; you cannot have bad execution when you take chances and leave an open field behind a missed tackle. This is probably where Green needs to get Clancy to focus on these issues, ESPECIALLY because of the injuries.

Green did get a mulligan with all the injuries, but this off-season will be the first true determining instance of whether he starts adjusting his coaching staff or just lets his ego run. It will be interesting.

Huff failed at MLB in Seattle, comes here, Green moves him outside and he fails here. Do you think it's possible that there was a reason Seattle let him go and maybe the missed tackles are how he played there too?

Clancy likes to scheme but as Walt said before several times now, you HAVE to scheme on this defense because even with our 11 natural starters we were going to be problematic up the middle because of the size of our DT's.

I left out Warner and the others intentionally because I was comparing our defensive issue to the Chiefs where we lack up the middle. Warner, Ross etc had no impact on our interior defense so I didn't mention them.

 

[Russ Smith]

Oddly enough Kansas City is still ranked 7th in rushing defense.

I don't see how anyone could complain about their defense this season.
They've gone from giving up 114.6 ypgame rushing and 27.2 points in 2004 to 90.9 and 21.9 this season. Doesn't mean they don't need to beef up the middle of their Dline though.

Maybe ESPN accidently watched a tape of the Cardinals and their MLB's over the past 5 years.

BTW: the cards are giving up 125.7 and 26.7 points this season. Can we borrow Derrick Johnson?

I still wish we'd drafted Johnson and yes KC has improved their defense, the point the ESPN article was making is they didn't do enough they ignored the middle and it's impacting them.

 

[Russ Smith]

Adding Warner and drafting Arrington were solid moves and should have really improved the offense but turned out to be moot with the failure of the line.

I think the overrating of the line was the fatal flaw...injuries and the regression of the defense were a total surprise and completed the disaster that is 2005.

I agree with all that, I was merely discussing the defense in detail in my post, I've written novels on the failure of Green to build an OL before, I still think it's really the whole problem on offense.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

This is the one I am baffled at. Not really Fatty Patty, becuase he has not been that good at all. He did receive a small contract but he isnt even living up to that. But the draft, not a single big guy at all, with Ross K as your backup slant NT, that was just odd.

I wasnt looking for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder, but come on throw a dog a bone here and at least pick one in the 7th round to make it look like you are at least trying.

I am also baffled by this.....and at the time I remember my buddies telling me that DT was not a need.....that Blackstock, Brown and Mitchell were great picks.

I realize a rookie NT isn't going to set the world on fire, but last year the draft was pretty deep in the later rounds:
Keyonta Marshall
Sione Pouha
Anthony Bryant
Ronald Fields

Or, if he wanted more immediate help, why not even a look at Robert Ferguson??

 

[nidan]

Huff failed at MLB in Seattle, comes here, Green moves him outside and he fails here. Do you think it's possible that there was a reason Seattle let him go and maybe the missed tackles are how he played there too?

That's part of what I was saying in another thred. When a guy is FA, there is usually a reason these days.

Most teams have figured out how to manage the cap [at least to some degree], so teams rarely let their good players get to FA. At least we are now doing that as well.

 

[nidan]

1) It's my belief that Green makes the personnel decisions and Graves gets them signed. I'm sure Graves has input, but personally I believe Green is running the draft and identifying which FA's he wants.

I suspect Graves also manages the CAP and gives Green an idea of the budget he has for shopping. After that I would expect that Green selects the groceries.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's part of what I was saying in another thred. When a guy is FA, there is usually a reason these days.

Most teams have figured out how to manage the cap [at least to some degree], so teams rarely let their good players get to FA. At least we are now doing that as well.

Yep, Huff never made sense because he wasn't a guy coming off a great year, he had 13 starts last year and made only 56 tackles for a starting LB on the inside thats brutal. I think we all assumed Huff was brought in for depth and special teams, thus the surprise when we moved him outside and started him.

Berry fit a pattern Green looks for, guy coming into his own, and remember Denver wanted Berry back Shanahan was very angry that Bertrand didn't give him the chance to match our offer he said they had a handshake deal that Berry would give Denver the final offer. To my knowledge Seattle wasn't trying to keep Huff(like Washington was with Pierce) and I don't think they were trying to keep Okeafor because they correctly determined Fisher was as good or better and they got him for less money.

I think that Seattle did a much better job of answering their offseason questions than we did.

 

[jefftheshark]

I think that Seattle did a much better job of answering their offseason questions than we did.

That is because they are much further along the curve than we are. Holmgren has been given a chance to build a team. Evidently, even though he has taken a lot of heat, he gets afforded more latitude than some fans apparently want to give Green.

The Shark

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What about adding a player like Corey Simon in the middle. If we were 6mil under the cap, I am pretty sure that we could have landed him. You see the change in the Indy D. It allows Freeney to play the outside and use his speed a lot more, etc.

Adding Simon in the middle could have helped the Run D tremendously IMO. He is a player that I don't think has been mentioned much. Their Rushing YPG went from 127 last year, to just above 97 this year.

 

[TheCardFan]

What about adding a player like Corey Simon in the middle. If we were 6mil under the cap, I am pretty sure that we could have landed him. You see the change in the Indy D. It allows Freeney to play the outside and use his speed a lot more, etc.

Adding Simon in the middle could have helped the Run D tremendously IMO. He is a player that I don't think has been mentioned much. Their Rushing YPG went from 127 last year, to just above 97 this year.

Very good point although I don't know how the waiver claim would have worked for Simon. We could have claimed him but I think he would have been an UFA at the end of this year...correct? Could we have franchised him anyway?

He certainly would have helped.

 

[joeshmo]

I don't think they were trying to keep Okeafor because they correctly determined Fisher was as good or better and they got him for less money.

Seattle offered Okeafer the same size contract that we did and he picked us over them. It was the big story when we signed him that a player would pick us over another team for the same amount of money.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

I'm glad it wasn't this team that hired Spurrier a few years back.

Yeah, but look at the Redskins now. A lot of people, myself included, thought that Gibbs had lost it and should have stayed retired from coaching. But he is proving me wrong.

I want the Cardinals to be the next Redskins or Bengals.

 

[joeshmo]

Very good point although I don't know how the waiver claim would have worked for Simon. We could have claimed him but I think he would have been an UFA at the end of this year...correct? Could we have franchised him anyway?

He certainly would have helped.

Simon wasnt on waivers. He was cut before the season started, thus he went straight to free agency. A vested veteran is only subject to the waiver system if cut after the trade deadline.

 

[Russ Smith]

That is because they are much further along the curve than we are. Holmgren has been given a chance to build a team. Evidently, even though he has taken a lot of heat, he gets afforded more latitude than some fans apparently want to give Green.

The Shark

Sure they started from a better position than us but we had FAR more caproom and yet they managed to retain their core guys, Hasselbeck, Jones and Alexander and STILL added a key FA in Fisher. They lost Lucas who's very good but they did an adequate job replacing him with Herndon and Dyson, neither is as good as Lucas was, but they're not costing Seattle games.

Remember one of the reasons so many Cards fans thought we were going to contend this year is we all thought Seattle would implode because of the cap. I think they did a masterful job of working with the cap and made much better decisions than we did.

 

[Wild Card]

Q. Didn't you promise that you'd stop posting here for as long as the Dennis Green era lasted?

Q. Would you please go back?

K9:

Talk about shooting the messenger. Why not try refuting some of what Walter had to say?

WC

 

[Russ Smith]

Seattle offered Okeafer the same size contract that we did and he picked us over them. It was the big story when we signed him that a player would pick us over another team for the same amount of money.

Right you are I forgot about the whole wanting to leave Seattle because he didn't fit in there deal. The reports were their offer was roughly the same as ours. So I guess their plan B was Fisher which actually worked out a lot better than plan A, retaining Chike.

 

[Duckjake]

I am also baffled by this.....and at the time I remember my buddies telling me that DT was not a need.....that Blackstock, Brown and Mitchell were great picks.

I realize a rookie NT isn't going to set the world on fire, but last year the draft was pretty deep in the later rounds:
Keyonta Marshall
Sione Pouha
Anthony Bryant
Ronald Fields

Or, if he wanted more immediate help, why not even a look at Robert Ferguson??

Langston Moore looked good before he was hurt. Russell Davis is a decent NT. If both those guys come back fully recovered can the Cards compete with that rotation?

 

[conraddobler]

Ultimately I lay all the blame at ownerships feet.

They could choose to fire some people, make some salary room and hire a real NFL GM.

Until they do that, they take all the blame, not that I like DG but honestly he's not got the same budget others do.

Now hiring him in the first place is another pet peeve of mine.

Hire a GM and go back to pimping luxury suites and talk on tv, the rest let the GM handle.