Q & A: Who's to Blame?

[joeshmo]

I think they did a masterful job of working with the cap and made much better decisions than we did.

Its called creative contracts and cutting overloaded contracts after June 1st.

 

[joeshmo]

So I guess their plan B was Fisher which actually worked out a lot better than plan A, retaining Chike.

Contract yes, performance no.

 

[Russ Smith]

Its called creative contracts and cutting overloaded contracts after June 1st.

Right and that's how most NFL teams operate. I know the Cards want to emulate the Eagles but we're not doing the loophole they use to gain more cap space, and I don't see the Eagles repeatedly intentionally cutting players before June 1 to eat up current capspace so that someone can claim later we need the caproom next year.

The Eagles let Simon go because they believed his play had declined, they had others who could do the job, cheaper. THey have been very good at deciding when to let starters go due to age or decline in play.

 

[Russ Smith]

Contract yes, performance no.

That's because you're comparing Okeafor here and saying that the way we use him restricts his chances at sacks. Last year in the same position on the same team as Fisher is this year, he had 8.5 sacks, Fisher already has 6.5 in 9 games. So in the same position he's so far outperforming what Chike did last year for less money.

Again I'm not saying Chike is a bad player or even a bad signing, just that we possibly could have had an arguably better player for less money in Fisher, so in my mind we chose to pursue the wrong FA DE.

It depends what you want but there were at least 3 guys who were better pass rushers than Chike in FA, Fisher, Reggie Hayward, and Derrick Burgess. I was glad we passed on Hayward he wanted too much and is just a pass rusher. Burgess was another guy I really liked, has 7 sacks for the Raiders but he's really also primarily a pass rusher, doesn't play the run. I suspect Green felt that Okeafor was the best run defender of those 4.

 

[nidan]

What about adding a player like Corey Simon in the middle. If we were 6mil under the cap,

We are not 6 million under the cap, so this is fanatasy.

Assuming we had signed another player to use up our cap, we would either lose Rackers next year or mortgage the future to keep him.

Losing him is what we would have done in the past and few teams outside the Redskins are willing to mortgage the future these days.

Bottom line we didn't have the cap room, being able to sign Rakers before he hit FA is a sign of good planning

 

[Russ Smith]

We are not 6 million under the cap, so this is fanatasy.

Assuming we had signed another player to use up our cap, we would either lose Rackers next year or mortgage the future to keep him.

Losing him is what we would have done in the past and few teams outside the Redskins are willing to mortgage the future these days.

Bottom line we didn't have the cap room, being able to sign Rakers before he hit FA is a sign of good planning

we would have if we hadn't cut players prior to June 1st taking the full caphit this year. Remember Pariah, Antsportssteve and others here were complaining at the time about that very thing. The "shortage" of capspace this year was created in part by the timing of our cuts.

 

[nidan]

Guys, I keep hearing moer complaints about the Bidwill's and 'creative' contracts [what ever that is supposed to mean] and yet you all seem willing to forget the past.

We still have yet to shead some of the bad contracts from the Mac era ? Need I mention LD, of league leading penalty fame ?

We had a lot of bad luck this year, not the fault of the Bidwill's. We used all ou cap space [except a small contingency for the balance of the season].

We got some key players signed for the long term.

We even got to take a look at Warner for a 1 year commitment. Like him opr not that isn't a bad deal.

 

[nidan]

we would have if we hadn't cut players prior to June 1st taking the full caphit this year. Remember Pariah, Antsportssteve and others here were complaining at the time about that very thing. The "shortage" of capspace this year was created in part by the timing of our cuts.

Absolutly correct but it also minimizes the impact next year. More pain now, less in the long term.

Post June 1st cuts make sense if you think you are real close and need a little more help. Unfortunatly there aren't usually a lot of good FA available post June 1st these days.

 

[Russ Smith]

Absolutly correct but it also minimizes the impact next year. More pain now, less in the long term.

Post June 1st cuts make sense if you think you are real close and need a little more help. Unfortunatly there aren't usually a lot of good FA available post June 1st these days.

OH I agree and if we were any other NFL team I'd be happy about that but the Cards have been minimizing the impact for next year since as long as I can remember and then next year comes and we find some other excuse for not using the cap money

Until I see us truly use that money next year I'm going to be suspicious because that's been the case for far too long.

 

[MoralityPlayMocker]

At this point, most of the blame lies with Green.

 

[40yearfan]

For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.

I'll buy that Mitch. I don't know how anyone can argue with you on this point.

 

[Duckjake]

Guys, I keep hearing moer complaints about the Bidwill's and 'creative' contracts [what ever that is supposed to mean] and yet you all seem willing to forget the past.

We still have yet to shead some of the bad contracts from the Mac era ? Need I mention LD, of league leading penalty fame ?

We had a lot of bad luck this year, not the fault of the Bidwill's. We used all ou cap space [except a small contingency for the balance of the season].

We got some key players signed for the long term.

We even got to take a look at Warner for a 1 year commitment. Like him opr not that isn't a bad deal.

Using money to extend a kicker is a good idea but spending money to keep one of only two of your last 12 first round draft picks selected over the last 10 years to be on the field Sunday is not?

As for signing key players for the long term that's what we thought they had done with McKinnon, Thompson and other extensions. And Leonard Davis whose contract you complain about now. But it's always like that with the Cardinals fans. Hail the extensions when they occur as a sign that the franchise is seeing the light and then gripe about them 2-3 years down the road as stupid moves that hurt the team's cap situation.

 

[Pariah]

Assuming we had signed another player to use up our cap, we would either lose Rackers next year or mortgage the future to keep him.

Why? Assuming he thinks he could have gotten more money in FA, why didn't he just not sign the extension and enter the market? He wasn't beholden to sign this contract now any more than he would 6 months from noww. IMO, we would have signed him to a similar contract in the off-season.

Also, I don't see why you think using a franchise tag is "mortgaging the futre." Most teams use it--not just the Redskins.

EDIT: I'm not opposed to siging Rackers now. But, I was in favor of imropoving the team the best we could in the off-season--just as I am this year.

 

[john h]

Mitch, although you make clear, concise, correct, profound, truthful,well rounded, comments about this team, your hatred of Green has completely rendered your insight moot.


I have to agree with you on most of this...

Mitch I probably am as down on Green as much as you are and would like to see him gone. Unless the owners do a complete 180 degrees I think it is highly unlikely they would dismiss him even if we lose out. To much money involved and when it comes to the Bidwills money is the motivator more so than winning. I think our assistant coaches are terrible but I am going to lay a lot of this on the owners. They likely have not given the coaching budget enough money and Green had to work with an underfunded budget. He probably had few people to choose from with his budget. He may have done better to dip into the college ranks and get an experienced smart coach or coordinator. I would guess we have the least experienced coordinators and staff in the NFL. Green looks like one of those coacheswho clearly needs a strong staff who will stand up to him. A good coordinator cannot operate from a position of fear. The excellent coordinators in this league make big money. More than some head coaches. Finding a good coaching staff for the Cards is like finding good FA's. We have a reputation to live down and a low budget.

 

[john h]

Your boy Dave Mac fits the bill! Bring him in!

Yes I remember you were quite high on him. And not on the proven winner Green.

Green was once a winner but not in the last 18 months. His winning days are old history. In the NFL no one cares what you did 5 years ago. Today and tomorrow is what counts.

 

[john h]

Come on Mitch. There are a lot of things you can fault Green for, I mean a lot. You wont get any arguement from me their.

But you know how the players feel or felt about their coaches how. Becuase you can just tell by looking at their faces on the sideline. You have zero inside knowledge of this teams player or inner workings.

Yet you still choice to bring up stuff that you have no way of knowing and seems to come out of thin air from a really biased point of view, or you find things of fault where there just isnt any fault to be had That is why some will always find it hard for to take you seriously even though a lot of what you are saying rings true.

Show me any type of organization where the leader fires his people and has no good replacements like Green does and I will show you an unhappy bunch of employees. This is not leadership and borders on being bazzar. This does not get you respect. It brings fear and employees starting to look for a new place to work.

 

[john h]

For the record: I don't hate anybody and that includes Dennis Green.

Had Green acted with class and made good football coaching decisions, especially on game days, I would be firmly in support of him. The only good decisions I have seen him make are in many of his free agent and draftee additions. If he had recognized the need to beef up the interior of both lines, I would give him an A+ in the personnel aspect of his job.

Look, I realize I have been getting redundant and I apologize for that.

It's like I feel stuck in a maze and there's no way out.

The fact is I am miserable about having to watch my Cardinals flounder year after year...I know many of us are...but you're right, some of us deal with it and move on, while others like myself, are still trying to find the answers...and still rehashing the realities.

I am also fed up with watching Cardinal teams that are poorly drilled in the fundamentals...can't get key plays in and out the huddle on time...have to call time outs because of it...don't know when the clock becomes the enemy...

Remember we've endured 24 losses (almost all of them lopsided) in the last 25 road games...it's how badly the Cardinals have played in those games and how dispirited and poorly coached they are that makes me irate. The fact is, I won't be happy with any coach until this all changes.

You will find no critic in me. I have been watching this mess for well over half a century and I do not have enough time left to give Green 5 years or give him the benefit of a doubt. He has not earned it with this organization. His record speaks for itself. It is lousy and we contine to be one of the worst teams in the NFL with not a lot of hope of getting much better next year. DG is the coach of this team and put it all together himself. If you are not happy with this team then you need to laser focus on Dennis Green. Mitch did not create this team or its record. Level your blast at some of the people in the organization that deserve it.

 

[john h]

He inherited crap talent and he has had two drafts which have not been bad. If you can recall the fiasco with Graves at the helm. We got Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace. Johnson is gone IMO. Pace has some redemptive value but for a #1 pick he needs to be more than possessing only some value.

Also, take a long look at the injury list this year. It is unbelievable.

Crap talent, crap attitude and an injury list longer than my kid's christmas list is why this team is in it's current state.

I thought if we played .500 ball then we would be over achieving but it was possible. But, with the injuries, no way.

The current team is worse than last years team.

 

[john h]

Russ,

1) How come Graves gets a "free pass" on last off-season? If he is acting like a GM, aren't these GM issues?

2) How do we know which free agents didn't want to come here? If I was a free agent being pursued by several teams, Arizona might not be my first choice. The reasons for this could be football related, or as mundane as proximity to family or friends.

3) While I agree about the "middle", why are we not questioning the apparent lack of interest in Pat Williams, or a DT in the draft? If there was a mistake made last year, I think this one was more glaring.

4) Green relies on his staff for the x's and o's. He fired Woods last year after making less than glowing remarks about his playcalling. Maybe Rowan is soon to be under the bus, along with (hopefully) Lindsey. But we can only guess as to the inner workings of the team, so all we can do is wait.

The Shark

Graves is not a GM and has not functioned as one. From all that I have read Green has more authority than any coach we have ever had. He selects the players and coaches and he fires the players and coaches. All he needs to ask permission for is money to spend. Other than the budget (which is a very important factor) Green is the man.

 

[joeshmo]

Show me any type of organization where the leader fires his people and has no good replacements like Green does and I will show you an unhappy bunch of employees. This is not leadership and borders on being bazzar. This does not get you respect. It brings fear and employees starting to look for a new place to work.

Then Mitch should have used that as his proof, which I find highly debateable Green ruling with Fear, in fact I dont believe it at all. Its a work hard hard for me and you will be one of my guys type environment, not a fear one. Players and coaches alike all call Green a players coach, never says a bad thing about them in the public even when he cuts them. But even your idea would have been a better reasoning then the ridiclous proof Mitch used of watching the players faces on the sidelines.

 

[john h]

Oddly enough Kansas City is still ranked 7th in rushing defense.

I don't see how anyone could complain about their defense this season.
They've gone from giving up 114.6 ypgame rushing and 27.2 points in 2004 to 90.9 and 21.9 this season. Doesn't mean they don't need to beef up the middle of their Dline though.

Maybe ESPN accidently watched a tape of the Cardinals and their MLB's over the past 5 years.

BTW: the cards are giving up 125.7 and 26.7 points this season. Can we borrow Derrick Johnson?

Our rushing offense is last in the NFL with an average per game of something like 80 yards. We have some runners in the NFL that average better than that on their own. Believe it or not we are like 10th in total offense. I guess the lesson here is you better be able to both pass and run. Swinton is still 5th in the NFL for punt returns for those who do not like him. Rackers is only several points away from leading the league in total points scored. I think we are 4th from the bottom in turnover ratio. Interesting that the 4 teams who are (I think) the worst in this catagory are the four worst teams in the NFL in the standings.

 

[john h]

Huff failed at MLB in Seattle, comes here, Green moves him outside and he fails here. Do you think it's possible that there was a reason Seattle let him go and maybe the missed tackles are how he played there too?

Clancy likes to scheme but as Walt said before several times now, you HAVE to scheme on this defense because even with our 11 natural starters we were going to be problematic up the middle because of the size of our DT's.

I left out Warner and the others intentionally because I was comparing our defensive issue to the Chiefs where we lack up the middle. Warner, Ross etc had no impact on our interior defense so I didn't mention them.

The other NFL teams adjusted to Clancy this year and knew what was coming. He will need to learn that what worked last year may not work this years. A game of adjustments.

 

[john h]

I agree with all that, I was merely discussing the defense in detail in my post, I've written novels on the failure of Green to build an OL before, I still think it's really the whole problem on offense.

I think the Arrington pick at #2 is still very much a question to be answered. Yes he has looked better but by no means a worthy high #2 pick. Just being better does not get it. We need him to show a lot more than he has. Maybe he will and maybe he want. Rolle is still very much a question mark as to just how good he will be. He had a couple of very bad games but this may have been due to injury. It is just way to early to declare him a great selection. He has only played in a few games. I think we need to add a good RB regardless of how Arrington turns out just as we need help in the DB position. Come to think about it is there any place we do not need help except kicker and punter? We do not even have an idea of who our starting QB will be next year or even next week.

 

[Pariah]

I don't buy the fact that Pendergast is "over-scheming." The schemes are fine. It's the players in the middle that are letting this team down on defense 8 out of 10 times, maybe more because if we could stop the basic run plays we'd have better success stopping other plays as well.

Pendergast is a damn good DC, IMO. Green was wrong to call him out.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I don't buy the fact that Pendergast is "over-scheming." The schemes are fine. It's the players in the middle that are letting this team down on defense 8 out of 10 times, maybe more because if we could stop the basic run plays we'd have better success stopping other plays as well.

Pendergast is a damn good DC, IMO. Green was wrong to call him out.

When your defense is fundementally unsound that is partially the defensive coordinators fault. This defense is actually worse then last year it seems and all we have done is lose Bryant and gain Okeafor and some draft picks.

He tries to throw in that 3 man rush that never works, and even went to a "46" defense a couple of weeks ago. I like Pendy and dont think he should be fired but he needs to adjust and teach his team how to tackle and quit overpursing! There is plenty of blame to go around!