QB's in the draft

Mitch

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I read yesterday that the Rams would let Bulger go if they can sign Jason Campbell...I would take Bulger or Matt Moore if either becomes available

Jason Campbell is a RFA thanks to the uncapped year. Thus, anyone who wants his rights is going to have to trade for him.

I think of all the QBs potentially available via trades, Campbell is the best fit for Whiz's system. The questions are: what would the Redskins want for him and could the Cardinals come to an agreement with Campbell on a multi-year deal in order to make such a trade feasible?
 

Early

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I like the idea of Campbell. The reason for that offense was so bad, was never due to him. He is not great, but a solid QB.

I much better like the idea of Pennington or Mcnabb. Both are much better QB's than Matt Leinart, and it is not even close.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Jason Campbell is a RFA thanks to the uncapped year. Thus, anyone who wants his rights is going to have to trade for him.

I think of all the QBs potentially available via trades, Campbell is the best fit for Whiz's system. The questions are: what would the Redskins want for him and could the Cardinals come to an agreement with Campbell on a multi-year deal in order to make such a trade feasible?


I like the idea of Campbell. The reason for that offense was so bad, was never due to him. He is not great, but a solid QB.

I much better like the idea of Pennington or Mcnabb. Both are much better QB's than Matt Leinart, and it is not even close.

Jason Campbell. Seriously?

How is he better? I'd say he has had more opportunity and that's it. He has absolutely no potential at this point in his career. Id rather take a flyer on a late round pick and those rarely pan out.
 

lobo

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reincarnation

for you believers, early is actually the reincarnation of sid gillman
great posts...agree or disagree.... great posts

OT: for y'all chicago cardinal fans like me.....Johnny's Beef
 

Early

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Jason Campbell. Seriously?

How is he better? I'd say he has had more opportunity and that's it. He has absolutely no potential at this point in his career. Id rather take a flyer on a late round pick and those rarely pan out.

Im not thrilled by Campbell. But i still trust him much more than Leinart. That would be my reason to get him. I want the best guy on the QB position. On every position. That's what makes a winning team.

I would be thrilled by Pennington. I would be very excited with McNabb. And i would be satisfied with Campbell. I would be really worried with Leinart.

What would make me go out have a huge party is if we got Clausen somehow with a trade.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Im not thrilled by Campbell. But i still trust him much more than Leinart. That would be my reason to get him. I want the best guy on the QB position. On every position. That's what makes a winning team.

I would be thrilled by Pennington. I would be very excited with McNabb. And i would be satisfied with Campbell. I would be really worried with Leinart.

What would make me go out have a huge party is if we got Clausen somehow with a trade.

I can't say with a straight face that Campbell would be an upgrade. Someone that is laterally in talent that doesn't know the system isn't an upgrade.
 

Zeno

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Im not thrilled by Campbell. But i still trust him much more than Leinart. That would be my reason to get him. I want the best guy on the QB position. On every position. That's what makes a winning team.

I would be thrilled by Pennington. I would be very excited with McNabb. And i would be satisfied with Campbell. I would be really worried with Leinart.

What would make me go out have a huge party is if we got Clausen somehow with a trade.

Thrilled by Pennington who has had multiple surgeries on his throwing shoulder and was never known for having a strong arm to begin with? The guy was talking about hanging it up after his last injury thats how much it has affected the guy--obviously he has had a change of heart but being thrilled with a brittle 34 yr old QB is kinda strange.

Here ya go...
2003 pre-season; Pennington endured a fracture-dislocation on his left (non-throwing) hand after suffering a hit from linebacker Brandon Short. The injury forced him to miss the first six games of the season

2004 during a Week 9 game against the Buffalo Bills, Pennington injured his rotator cuff and was forced to miss three games

2005 Pennington underwent surgery on his right shoulder in Birmingham, Alabama on February 4, 2005. It was later revealed that he had suffered a substantial tear in the right rotator cuff, as well as a large bone spur on that shoulder

2009 On September 29th, 2009 it was announced that initial results show a torn Shoulder capsule in his throwing shoulder. After seeking a second opinion, Pennington decided to go with a 3rd surgery on the shoulder. Pennington later would go on to say that although he isn't sure if he will play again, he would try and rehabilitate the shoulder, and work on getting back to the NFL.

That injury history would worry me more than thrill me.
 

Early

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Thrilled by Pennington who has had multiple surgeries on his throwing shoulder and was never known for having a strong arm to begin with? The guy was talking about hanging it up after his last injury thats how much it has affected the guy--obviously he has had a change of heart but being thrilled with a brittle 34 yr old QB is kinda strange.

Here ya go...
2003 pre-season; Pennington endured a fracture-dislocation on his left (non-throwing) hand after suffering a hit from linebacker Brandon Short. The injury forced him to miss the first six games of the season

2004 during a Week 9 game against the Buffalo Bills, Pennington injured his rotator cuff and was forced to miss three games

2005 Pennington underwent surgery on his right shoulder in Birmingham, Alabama on February 4, 2005. It was later revealed that he had suffered a substantial tear in the right rotator cuff, as well as a large bone spur on that shoulder

2009 On September 29th, 2009 it was announced that initial results show a torn Shoulder capsule in his throwing shoulder. After seeking a second opinion, Pennington decided to go with a 3rd surgery on the shoulder. Pennington later would go on to say that although he isn't sure if he will play again, he would try and rehabilitate the shoulder, and work on getting back to the NFL.

That injury history would worry me more than thrill me.

Two years ago, i was thrilled by a 36 year old Warner with just as many injuries in his career, if not more in numbers. He was older and looked just as "bad" risk in terms of injuries.

You have to pick the best QB. Not the least injured so far. As history shows again and again, health is a very unpredictable phenomenon. In fact, just changing the enviroment, training method, conditioning coach etc, can have a profound effect. Pure chance has alot to deal with it as well. Better WR's that get open faster can also make your stay in pocket more safe. In essence, hundred different things make an impact. Combined. It's just impossible to say anything. Much easier to speak about how well this and this guy plays when healthy.

You evaluate before the season, does this guy hace a chance to be healthy for the opening day. If he does, you have to evaluate him as a player, not by the health of his previous seasons. KW is a living proof of that.
 

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For camp fodder, I would like to see the Cards bring in Juice Williams as an UDFA. I am certain that he is not polished enough to make the roster, but I think he has certain intangibles much like VY. His performanc in his senior year was not very good but that could certainly be due to the fact that his Offensive line was dominated by underclassmen and the team had a new OC that certainly did not play to his stregnths. U don't become the all time leader in yards in the Big 10 by having no talent. Nothing else convert him to a running back.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Clausen is ten times better than let's say Stafford. I don't think it is unreasonable to compare him with Warner. Everything from toughness to IQ, to being good character off the field. Accuracy. This guys screens the field as good as top NFL QB's do, and he does all that in college. It's insane. He is lightyears ahead of other QB's in college in terms of playing the game NFL style. He is nothing short of amazing, and he is consistently amazing. Worth the first overall pick if you ask me. Alot of that has to do with the coach he has, Brady's former. But most of it has to do with him, his talent, and as you say it, his ability lead and not be influenced and controled strictly by anyone arround. He is the guy that thinks for himself, he has his own opinion, and dares to show it during the games. That's leadership. When Manning looks over to the sideline, and says let's go for it, that's what i'm talking about.

I'd trade up to get him in a heartbeat. In fact, I wanted to trade up to get Matt Ryan, even when our QB unit was as far down the need list as it possibly could be. And i think that Clausen is clearly the better QB than Ryan was.

To me, it's about drafting the best players. Not the position they play. Matt Ryan would be worth gold right now and the next ten years.

As far as Kafka goes, the only thing that annoys me is the small sample size of these NFL plays.

Snead, i don't like him at all as prospect. As you say it, he is not close the leader and tough guy Kafka is. Second, he has none of the even basic mechanics of dropback hitchstep and throwing motion. He is horrible. He is wildcat QB and that's it. Kafka's pocket motion is one of the more impressive i have seen for quiet some time and fits the westcoast perfectly. Snead is a running QB that can't pass from the pocket. Kafka is a passing QB that can kill you with the run. It's amazing how westcoast he looks like, and he was never trained to look like that. That's what i find the most interesting about him.

Agree on the Claussen love, can't be sure abouth the Kafka love, and certainly don't see how Pennington or Campbell would be an upgrade over Matt. I would be interested to hear your take on players other then QB's in this draft, because like most others, I don't see us taking one before the 5th.

Your in depth analysis (which is very good) is better used on OLB's, DT's, and ILB this year Early my man.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Two years ago, i was thrilled by a 36 year old Warner with just as many injuries in his career, if not more in numbers. He was older and looked just as "bad" risk in terms of injuries.

You have to pick the best QB. Not the least injured so far. As history shows again and again, health is a very unpredictable phenomenon. In fact, just changing the enviroment, training method, conditioning coach etc, can have a profound effect. Pure chance has alot to deal with it as well. Better WR's that get open faster can also make your stay in pocket more safe. In essence, hundred different things make an impact. Combined. It's just impossible to say anything. Much easier to speak about how well this and this guy plays when healthy.

You evaluate before the season, does this guy hace a chance to be healthy for the opening day. If he does, you have to evaluate him as a player, not by the health of his previous seasons. KW is a living proof of that.

Now this is good stuff and spot on.
 

Zeno

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Two years ago, i was thrilled by a 36 year old Warner with just as many injuries in his career, if not more in numbers. He was older and looked just as "bad" risk in terms of injuries.

Pennington does not equal Warner..not even close. Was Warner coming off multiple shoulder injuries/surgeries on his throwing shoulder/arm? Nope.
 

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Pennington does not equal Warner..not even close. Was Warner coming off multiple shoulder injuries/surgeries on his throwing shoulder/arm? Nope.

This. I like Pennington and think he would make a good veteran backup should Leinart fail but he really isn't anything more than average at this point in his career. He was and never will be Kurt.
 

WildBB

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This. I like Pennington and think he would make a good veteran backup should Leinart fail but he really isn't anything more than average at this point in his career. He was and never will be Kurt.

Absolutely not. He can be solid as a stop gap though.

Here is an interesting article from PFW reguarding the value of QB's, which most of us know is premium in this league. It's something the Cards org. is going to need to evaluate carefully, with Matt's contract escalating next off season, or him due to recieve a new deal. It should be right up there with fixing the D as a top priority.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/02/13/eagles-know-value-of-quarterbacks
 

Duckjake

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This. I like Pennington and think he would make a good veteran backup should Leinart fail but he really isn't anything more than average at this point in his career. He was and never will be Kurt.

How do you know for sure? There was a time when most people didn't think Kurt would be Kurt.
 

WarnerHOF

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How do you know for sure? There was a time when most people didn't think Kurt would be Kurt.

When has Pennington ever shown the ability to be an elite QB like Warner? He is a stopgap and nothing else. I would welcome him on this team for insurance and leadership but we can't expect to ever go deep into the playoffs with him.
 

Duckjake

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When has Pennington ever shown the ability to be an elite QB like Warner? He is a stopgap and nothing else. I would welcome him on this team for insurance and leadership but we can't expect to ever go deep into the playoffs with him.

Pennington has a higher career completion % than Warner. His INT ratio is 2.6%. So who knows what he could do running the Cards offense.

What had Trent Green ever done to show he had the ability to throw for over 20,000 yards and 110 TDs in only 5 seasons with Kansas City with guys like Snoop Minnis at WR?
 

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Pennington has a higher career completion % than Warner. His INT ratio is 2.6%. So who knows what he could do running the Cards offense.

What had Trent Green ever done to show he had the ability to throw for over 20,000 yards and 110 TDs in only 5 seasons with Kansas City with guys like Snoop Minnis at WR?

Chad's completion ratio is so high because he cant throw a football farther than 10 yards. He can manage an offense and not make mistakes, but he's not a guy I want at QB if we are in the hole and need to score. I know a lot of people weren't happy with the offense we ran last season because of the limited amount of shots we took down field throughout most of the season, it'd be even worse with Chad at qb.
 
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Duckjake

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Chad's completion ratio is so high because he cant throw a football farther than 10 yards. He can manage an offense and not make mistakes, but he's not a guy I want at QB if we are in the hole and need to score. I know a lot of people weren't happy with the offense we ran last season because of the limited amount of shots we took down field throughout most of the season, it'd be even worse with Chad at qb.

Well how often have the Cards needed to do that? We either got our rears kicked or got out to a big lead in almost every game the last two seasons. With a very few exceptions.

If we had a defense that didn't decide to go home early after the Cards had a big lead there would be even fewer exceptions.
 

Early

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Chad's completion ratio is so high because he cant throw a football farther than 10 yards. He can manage an offense and not make mistakes, but he's not a guy I want at QB if we are in the hole and need to score. I know a lot of people weren't happy with the offense we ran last season because of the limited amount of shots we took down field throughout most of the season, it'd be even worse with Chad at qb.

Leinart is arguably the one that needs to be mentioned here. Of all QB's, including even all backups, he has to be among the ones that has shown least ability to score. It's so obvious, he plays not to make an mistake. Not to win and score. And even in that case, he makes tons of mistakes. If you want to score some points, there are dozen of options better than Leinart. In fact, almost any guy you pick up, would be better suited for that task.

Chad's completion percentage is high, because of his extreme mid range accuracy. That's why Warner's is high as well. That's where the most difficult throws are. There have been so many QB's over the time that were not able to play the deep and even medium game, and the dumpoff was the last option. These QB's are not even close in having the stats that Pennington has. So obviously, he is special. He can do much more than the dumpoff.

It's not like Warner is throwing deep all the time. This year, his injury has prevented him from going deep. Yet his level of play was far enough for us to go to another super bowl. It proves that KW is KW because of that medium range game, and not the deep ball. It was defense and Bill Davis that prevented us. That's what westcoast is about, and that's what as example Montana was also about.

Deep ball has some impact, i'm not denying that. KW was better last year than this one due to that fact. But my point is that this has only a marginal impact compared to the way you play over the middle, your touch, playcalling, what kind of man you are in the huddle and the pocket.

Somebody mention that Pennington will never lead a team to superbowl. Depends where he plays. I'm sure that Kurt Warner would never lead anyone to superbowl without Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston. Chad has never had a target even close to these 6. They have all been a joke compared to these guys. How would his stats look like with HOF recieving corp instead of an average or below average? Personally, i'd like to see that. We don't need a bullet arm, ala Jamarcus Russell deep to Ted Gin Jr. All we need is great accuracy and intelligence and toughness. Pennington, McNabb or Clausen to me in the next coming years. I think that we will go for trading up to get Clausen.
 

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Leinart is arguably the one that needs to be mentioned here. Of all QB's, including even all backups, he has to be among the ones that has shown least ability to score. It's so obvious, he plays not to make an mistake. Not to win and score. And even in that case, he makes tons of mistakes. If you want to score some points, there are dozen of options better than Leinart. In fact, almost any guy you pick up, would be better suited for that task.
WOW! I'm starting to think that you are nothing but a biased Leinart hater. All the reasons you stated for not liking Leinart are exactly what Pennington is. When has Pennington ever shown the ability to be a scorer? Pennington has already reached his ceiling and Leinart is still learning so which QB would you rather have?

Chad's completion percentage is high, because of his extreme mid range accuracy. That's why Warner's is high as well. That's where the most difficult throws are. There have been so many QB's over the time that were not able to play the deep and even medium game, and the dumpoff was the last option. These QB's are not even close in having the stats that Pennington has. So obviously, he is special. He can do much more than the dumpoff.

It's not like Warner is throwing deep all the time. This year, his injury has prevented him from going deep. Yet his level of play was far enough for us to go to another super bowl. It proves that KW is KW because of that medium range game, and not the deep ball. It was defense and Bill Davis that prevented us. That's what westcoast is about, and that's what as example Montana was also about.

Deep ball has some impact, i'm not denying that. KW was better last year than this one due to that fact. But my point is that this has only a marginal impact compared to the way you play over the middle, your touch, playcalling, what kind of man you are in the huddle and the pocket.

Somebody mention that Pennington will never lead a team to superbowl. Depends where he plays. I'm sure that Kurt Warner would never lead anyone to superbowl without Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston. Chad has never had a target even close to these 6. They have all been a joke compared to these guys. How would his stats look like with HOF recieving corp instead of an average or below average? Personally, i'd like to see that. We don't need a bullet arm, ala Jamarcus Russell deep to Ted Gin Jr. All we need is great accuracy and intelligence and toughness. Pennington, McNabb or Clausen to me in the next coming years. I think that we will go for trading up to get Clausen.
Ok here are some stats from 2008 (Chad's last good season) playing the easiest schedule in the NFL since you believe Pennington has extremely amazing mid range accuracy.

Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds.72 132 1252 54.5 9.49 64 6 2 0.0 95.9
Stats from Chad's best season (2004)

Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds.50 100 849 50.0 8.49 41 1 8 0.0 49.1
54.5% and 50% completion rate respectively.

Compare that to Warner's 65% completion rate on passes thrown 10-20 yards in 2009.

What you would get out of Pennington is what Leinart did against Tennessee. Expecting anything more is just wishful thinking imo and please, please, please do not compare Pennington to Montana and Warner. Pennington cracks under pressure every time he plays a good defense and his physical limitations and inferior mental makeup make it extremely easy for good defenses to stop him compared to Warner.
 

Early

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WOW! I'm starting to think that you are nothing but a biased Leinart hater. All the reasons you stated for not liking Leinart are exactly what Pennington is. When has Pennington ever shown the ability to be a scorer? Pennington has already reached his ceiling and Leinart is still learning so which QB would you rather have?

I'm not a Leinart hater. I just think that he can't play good enough. Not even close. It's that simple. Hate is something different. Pennington is not a Warner or Montana, there shouldn't be doubt there. But i believe Pennington is ten times a QB that Leinart is. And McNabb is so as well. And (Donovan) he can go deep very well, what is the problem with him then?

Really, i see no advantage of having ML instead of these guys, not a single one besides age. And to me age is not an argument, i want the best QB out there. I think your statistical breakdown is way to short and biased by the way.
 

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Whiz has given no indication that he agrees with Leinart haters. So this is all moot.
 

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