Quarterback Decision Looms

[john h]

I think the Cardinals can go the playoffs with either QB.

And they better be able to since neither QB has shown the ability to make through 16 games.

This may be true however Warner has proven for many years what he is capable of doing. Leinart is still very much an unknown in his ability to lead an NFL team to a playoff. The coach must start the best guy and as I often say, no matter who it is. Kurt may have two years left and Matt is still a young man so if Matt is not the starter he has plenty of time to prove what he can do. Steve Young sit on the bench for some time before he took over. I still do not have a feel of who is doing better in training camp. Based on experience, Warner has the edge by far. You cannot downplay experience as few rookie QB's make it big in there first or second year for good reason. Basically, Matt has not much more experience than a rookie. I think the coaches have a good idea of who will perform best or who is performing best. Just hope there are no outside forces that are pushing them to start one guy over the other.

Based on nothing but watching Matt last year for a few games and watching Warner last year I think Warner is the best man to start the year if we want to make the playoffs. We clearly cannot start the season with 2-3 straight losses. From our play so far this year in pre-season games I am worried about us improving over last year's 8-8. Of course I know this is pre-season but you need a taste of winning at least one game.

Based on what I am reading on the board and other places it looks like Matt was destined to be the starter no matter what. My guess is Matt will start but not because he gives us the best chance of winning. To bad we cannot get the players perspective as they more than anyone know who is the best guy to get the job done and who they would like to start.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He has less first-hard knowledge than the HC does.

Well, he certainly doesn't have ownership chirping in his ear if that's what you mean!

 

[82CardsGrad]

I find that very hard to believe for one simple reason. Season Tickets.

If we dont win this year and are again be just average again, Ownership can kiss their season ticket purchases goodbye. They still havent sold out their season tickets for this season and if they think it was ahrd this year they should try doing it after another average or below average season. That is where the money is at, not marketing Matt whom ownership gets zero dollars from anything Matt Markets. The only thing they can make money off of Matt is Jerseys and Jersey sales are somewhat shared with the revenue sharing system that is in place so it is small change compared to selling out the stadium.

If Ownership wants to make money or to market themselves they know the only way to do that is to Win. Becuase of that and Wiz pride and his coaching staffs pride, ownership will let coach pick whom he feels gives the best shot at winning and selling out the stadium next season.

Makes sense to me... "Just win"! Yet, you seem to forget we are talking about the Cards and the Bidwills...

 

[john h]

preseason so hard to judge but Kurt's rating is 82.6, Matt is at 114.6. Kurt at 6 YPA, Matt at 8.1, the attempts are way too low to make any determinations but the fact is in the limited action they've had, Matt has outplayed Kurt statistically.

And Whiz made Matt the starter based on what he'd seen in offseason and OTA's etc, so it's reasonable to assume Matt did something there to earn it unless we just believe that Whiz hates Warner.

I do not think we have enough pre-season game stats to validate who should start. I think the coach up to this point gathers most of his information from daily practice.

 

[joeshmo]

The stats would have been different had Wise kept Matt out during the second half of the KC game. Wise gave Matt a chance to redeem his poor play in the first half...against a less formidable defensive team.

Keep in mind that Matt also played with less talented TE's, WR's, and RB's.

Wise made Matt the starter cause he said no one loses their job due to injury.

That is only about 10% of what he said. He also said that Matt has proven himself with the work he put in, classwork, film room, rehab and so on, from the point he got injured to the point he was speaking on it.

 

[joeshmo]

Yet, you seem to forget we are talking about the Cards and the Bidwills...

I am reminded of it everyday.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This may be true however Warner has proven for many years what he is capable of doing.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

He hasn't played 16 games since 2001, and has shown much of anything since 2001 until the last eight games of last year. Click on the link above and see for yourself. So throw "for many years" and "we know what we have in Kurt", and "Kurt is a sure thing" out the window. I don't mean to be a jerk about this, but I am tired of hiring this ridiculousness. My memory is good enough to remember why Kurt was pulled in the 2007 season, and it was for good reason.

Leinart is still very much an unknown in his ability to lead an NFL team to a playoff. The coach must start the best guy and as I often say, no matter who it is. Kurt may have two years left and Matt is still a young man so if Matt is not the starter he has plenty of time to prove what he can do. Steve Young sit on the bench for some time before he took over. I still do not have a feel of who is doing better in training camp. Based on experience, Warner has the edge by far. You cannot downplay experience as few rookie QB's make it big in there first or second year for good reason. Basically, Matt has not much more experience than a rookie. I think the coaches have a good idea of who will perform best or who is performing best. Just hope there are no outside forces that are pushing them to start one guy over the other.

Based on nothing but watching Matt last year for a few games and watching Warner last year I think Warner is the best man to start the year if we want to make the playoffs. We clearly cannot start the season with 2-3 straight losses. From our play so far this year in pre-season games I am worried about us improving over last year's 8-8. Of course I know this is pre-season but you need a taste of winning at least one game.

Based on what I am reading on the board and other places it looks like Matt was destined to be the starter no matter what. My guess is Matt will start but not because he gives us the best chance of winning. To bad we cannot get the players perspective as they more than anyone know who is the best guy to get the job done and who they would like to start.

The rest I agree with and what is your opinion on who you want or think is best to start it is hard to argue.

I will back whomever is chosen. I have the confidence in Whiz and Haley that they will start the best guy for this team.

In my opinion, I think either guy could come out and go 5-0 or 2-3 or 0-5. You don't know what you have in Leinart so he is a wild card. As for Warner, he can play at an all-pro level, but he also can play at a no-pro level as well. History has shown this and his stats above are great reminder of it.

There are many plus's and minus's on both side which makes this a REALLY tough call IMO. Thus, I defaulted this situation to whatever the coaches think is best.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's right - the numbers at this stage in preseason are meaningless... It's hard to argue that when Warner is running the offense, it moves the way it should, versus when Matt is running the offense...

Also, according to what Lincoln Kennedy and MJ were saying this morning, it is not at all the case that Matt has done "something" in camp to warrant being named the starter.
IMO - I believe ownership is placing a great deal of pressure on Whiz to run with Matt as the starter... They know Matt is far more marketable than Kurt...

Hopefully Matt will step up and prove so many doubters wrong...

Well I'm not tracking points per drive in preseason so I don't know who's moving the ball better for points but so far statistically Matt has been better.

Last year Warner was clearly better and clearly grasped the no huddle better than Matt.

I don't know if ownership is pushing Matt or not, if they want to play the inferior guy for marketing purposes why not get rid of Warner? Why not trade him or release him, why keep him around as a potential distraction and controversy? They could have easily said he wanted too much money or wanted a guarantee as a starter, plenty of ways to let a guy coming off a good year go.

Matt has played pretty well in his limited preseason action, hopefully next week he continues to play well. If he falters in the regular season Whiz showed last year he won't hesitate to change QB's.

 

[Pariah]

The Cards ought to see what they can get from the Vikings for Warner. JMHO

 

[john h]

DCR, that was not the question you asked.



Kurt hasn't really had a chance to prove anything. If you keep him out of the first game and 2 series in the last, how can he prove he is better?

With that said, shouldn't Matt prove he is better than Kurt in order to keep "his" job considering the way Matt stunk it up last season?

Warner has a long history of what he can do. Kurt has none. That plus experience should give Warner the edge going in unless Matt is clearly the dominant player. The job should be Warner's going into training camp and it is up to Matt to win it. Seems like the job was Matts going in and Warner's to win. IMHO that was backwards. Only you guys in AZ who lay your eyes on these guys in practice have any real idea of what is going on. The rest of us only know what we read and the past history of these guys. Neither of them have much of a chance if we do not have a strong running game. Is it not strange we do not seem nearly as concerned about running, which of course includes the OL, than we do about the QB who depends on these people.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I do not think we have enough pre-season game stats to validate who should start. I think the coach up to this point gathers most of his information from daily practice.

Well, there's only one more to go, before the 3rd and 4th stringers are in. We are getting close to making a decision, that's for sure.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do not think we have enough pre-season game stats to validate who should start. I think the coach up to this point gathers most of his information from daily practice.

Exactly why I said the attempts are too low to make any determinations.

At this stage they're not really just going on game play they're going on what they saw in practice, if Matt were terrible in practice I think he wouldn't be starting.

The reality is they're trying to pick the guy who will help us win.

 

[40yearfan]

"In Whis I trust." Whatever his decision is, I will live with it. I have enough confidence in the man to know that he will do whatever is necessary to win. He is not afraid to make hard decisions and will not hesitate to pull the plug on Leinart if it needs pulling.

 

[john h]

The stats would have been different had Wise kept Matt out during the second half of the KC game. Wise gave Matt a chance to redeem his poor play in the first half...against a less formidable defensive team.


Wise made Matt the starter cause he said no one loses their job due to injury.

Players lose their jobs every day for reasons other than injury. I never have agreed with that saying "you do not lose your job because you are injured". You lose your job any time a better player comes along. Lou Gehrig won his job because of an injury and decades later was still the starter.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm very much torn on this one.

Warner is quite the gun slinger. He can potentially make this offense very explosive. However, I still remember the Warner from a few years back. The guy who didn't protect the football. I wouldn't complain if Warner is named the starter. I actually think he might be the better choice to start the season. However the minute he fails to protect the football I'd bench him in favor of Leinart.

Leinart is the future. He is more of a ball control type of QB and I have a feeling that is what this coaching staff is looking for. Word on the street is that Leinart has improved mentally with regards to the offense. Yet that still remains to be seen.

There lies the problem, do you take your chances with Leinart and give him a chance to prove himself? Or do you go with the old Vet who has had a history of not protecting the ball?

Either way I don't see this as a problem but more of a luxury as far as NFL QBs go. Right now I could see either guy starting and I would be happy. My gut says Warner is the better choice right now. My heart says give the kid a chance. My brain is scrambled.

 

[Joe L]

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

He hasn't played 16 games since 2001, and has shown much of anything since 2001 until the last eight games of last year. Click on the link above and see for yourself. So throw "for many years" and "we know what we have in Kurt", and "Kurt is a sure thing" out the window. I don't mean to be a jerk about this, but I am tired of hiring this ridiculousness. My memory is good enough to remember why Kurt was pulled in the 2007 season, and it was for good reason.

Matt hasn't ended a season without injury after given the starting position since becoming the starter. He hasn't shown anything since his first season under Green.

This is a "what have you done for me lately league" and judging both players from last season, Warner wins hands down.

 

[john h]

I find that very hard to believe for one simple reason. Season Tickets.

If we dont win this year and are again be just average again, Ownership can kiss their season ticket purchases goodbye. They still havent sold out their season tickets for this season and if they think it was ahrd this year they should try doing it after another average or below average season. That is where the money is at, not marketing Matt whom ownership gets zero dollars from anything Matt Markets. The only thing they can make money off of Matt is Jerseys and Jersey sales are somewhat shared with the revenue sharing system that is in place so it is small change compared to selling out the stadium.

If Ownership wants to make money or to market themselves they know the only way to do that is to Win. Becuase of that and Wiz pride and his coaching staffs pride, ownership will let coach pick whom he feels gives the best shot at winning and selling out the stadium next season.

One of the more sensible post on this subject. Owners will make money if we win and will make less if we lose. Matt is not going to be a big draw and neither is Warner. Winning will bring out the fans. The Coach would have to be a moron not to understand winning is everthing and you have to believe he will start the guys he thinks will give us the best chance of winning. There is no such thing as rebuilding over years in the NFL anymore. Your job is to win NOW. The Cubs are winning and have broken every attendance record and every revenue record and likely every profit record in their history. It took a high payroll to do it and a good manager but by spending more money they are making more money. The previous Mr. Bidwill never did understand this. The guy none of us really have a handle on and just how much input he has into this team is Rod Graves. As a GM he is more or less a many of mystery.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well I'm not tracking points per drive in preseason so I don't know who's moving the ball better for points but so far statistically Matt has been better.

Last year Warner was clearly better and clearly grasped the no huddle better than Matt.

Compare the number of snaps Matt has had thus far versus Kurt, and you would see that trying to make comparisons based upon numbers is pointless...
That said, IMHO, the offense moves and flows MUCH better when Warner is at the helm...

I don't know if ownership is pushing Matt or not, if they want to play the inferior guy for marketing purposes why not get rid of Warner? Why not trade him or release him, why keep him around as a potential distraction and controversy? They could have easily said he wanted too much money or wanted a guarantee as a starter, plenty of ways to let a guy coming off a good year go.

Get rid of Warner? He's the best insurance policy in the game today! You're joking right??

Matt has played pretty well in his limited preseason action, hopefully next week he continues to play well. If he falters in the regular season Whiz showed last year he won't hesitate to change QB's.

I would expect Matt to play at least the entire first half, if not well into the 3rd quarter next week... He will certainly have his chance to "prove" he's worth the starting role...

 

[MadCardDisease]

I would expect Matt to play at least the entire first half, if not well into the 3rd quarter next week... He will certainly have his chance to "prove" he's worth the starting role...

That's how I feel also.

 

[Pariah]

He will certainly have his chance to "prove" he's worth the starting role...

You know as well as I do that even if ML ends up with 104 QB rating in that game we'll hear Warner's supporters (misleading term, though--I think we all support Warner...but you know what I mean) crying that he could have done that or better with the playing time.

It's not an issue that's going to resolve itself unless one of them is gawd-awful or (gawd-forbid) injured...(or traded to the Vikings. ).

 

[john h]

DCR, that was not the question you asked.



Kurt hasn't really had a chance to prove anything. If you keep him out of the first game and 2 series in the last, how can he prove he is better?

With that said, shouldn't Matt prove he is better than Kurt in order to keep "his" job considering the way Matt stunk it up last season?

Some post are saying Matt will play most of the next game. That may be true and a reason could be the Whiz knows what he has in Warner. Matt may be playing this game to become the starter. If he plays poorly then you can expect Warner to start. If he has a big day he will have won the starting job. That makes as much sense to me as anything.

 

[clif]

I could see starting Warner if this was some veteran laden team vying for a real run at a Superbowl or if Kurt was CLEARLY outplaying Matt. Neither of which is true at this point so there is really no real upside to starting Warner.

 

[Pariah]

Some post are saying Matt will play most of the next game. That may be true and a reason could be the Whiz knows what he has in Warner. Matt may be playing this game to become the starter. If he plays poorly then you can expect Warner to start. If he has a big day he will have won the starting job. That makes as much sense to me as anything.

I agree, except for one thing (and it may just be semantics): I don't think he has to win the job to start; I think he has to lose it for Warner to start.

 

[john h]

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

He hasn't played 16 games since 2001, and has shown much of anything since 2001 until the last eight games of last year. Click on the link above and see for yourself. So throw "for many years" and "we know what we have in Kurt", and "Kurt is a sure thing" out the window. I don't mean to be a jerk about this, but I am tired of hiring this ridiculousness. My memory is good enough to remember why Kurt was pulled in the 2007 season, and it was for good reason.





The rest I agree with and what is your opinion on who you want or think is best to start it is hard to argue.

I will back whomever is chosen. I have the confidence in Whiz and Haley that they will start the best guy for this team.

In my opinion, I think either guy could come out and go 5-0 or 2-3 or 0-5. You don't know what you have in Leinart so he is a wild card. As for Warner, he can play at an all-pro level, but he also can play at a no-pro level as well. History has shown this and his stats above are great reminder of it.

There are many plus's and minus's on both side which makes this a REALLY tough call IMO. Thus, I defaulted this situation to whatever the coaches think is best.

I am seeing some post suggesting we trade Warner. That in my opinion would be the kiss of death. Sort of like switching Doctors in the middle of brain surgery. Warner knows our system and at this point is the only logical choice to be the backup or the starter. This seems like a no brainer to me and I cannot imagine the coach or GM every doing something so absurd as getting rid of our experienced QB who might just be the starter at the begining of the season. He had a good year last season and is the reason we finished 8-8 for the first time in a long time. Actually this is a dumb post of mine as Warner is going nowhere.

 

[Russ Smith]

Compare the number of snaps Matt has had thus far versus Kurt, and you would see that trying to make comparisons based upon numbers is pointless...
That said, IMHO, the offense moves and flows MUCH better when Warner is at the helm...



Get rid of Warner? He's the best insurance policy in the game today! You're joking right??



I would expect Matt to play at least the entire first half, if not well into the 3rd quarter next week... He will certainly have his chance to "prove" he's worth the starting role...

Come on 82 you're smart enough to follow along. I was saying if the reason Matt is playing is he's more marketable, as you suggested, why would we even keep Kurt? Having Kurt around detracts from matt's marketability because it creates a potential controversy. If we're going with Matt because of that, we would get rid of Warner to make it clear Matt's our guy.

We're keeping Kurt for the exact reason you said, insurance. We're not benching him because of Matt's fame off the field.

Matt should play into the 3rd quarter that's about standard for the 3rd preseason game.