Question about Levi Brown's Roster Bonus

[Mitch]

Ken Whisenhunt indicated a little while back that he wants and expects to retain Brown---that and he praised Brown for his improvement the second half of the season.

Did he mean that?

A decision on Brown's signing bonus needs to be made two weeks from today, and yet, by all reports and indications there has been no contact with Brown or his agent.

 

[Mitch]

One reporter has speculated that he expects the Cardinals to start negotiating with Brown and his agent this weekend during the Scouting Combine. But that's just his speculation.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No action to date? Hmmm.

Because the Cardinals are just being ridiculous now.

No action with Calais Campbell, no movement on highly paid, under achieving players.

Ugh. The usual norm. Don't worry they will get it all done at the worst possible times, and put themselves at a disadvantage again.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I kept Googling and finally found the date, it's March 13th...the day free agency starts.

No action to date? Hmmm.

One reporter has speculated that he expects the Cardinals to start negotiating with Brown and his agent this weekend during the Scouting Combine. But that's just his speculation.

Brown is gone and if there wasn't a tag, Campbell would be too. It's Rod Graves we're talking about. I think it's funny they may start negotiiating this weekend with Brown. Unless Brown accepts what Cards offer, which will not be the case, where is his incentive to get any deal done? Hitting the open market can only drive up his value. This will end up with Graves trying to come in with a similar deal, and trying to save face, after Levi has agreed to terms with another team. We've seen it happen every year.

 

[Duckjake]

Brown is gone and if there wasn't a tag, Campbell would be too. It's Rod Graves we're talking about. I think it's funny they may start negotiiating this weekend with Brown. Unless Brown accepts what Cards offer, which will not be the case, where is his incentive to get any deal done? Hitting the open market can only drive up his value. This will end up with Graves trying to come in with a similar deal, and trying to save face, after Levi has agreed to terms with another team. We've seen it happen every year.

If the Cards release Brown it will be the 2nd year in a row the Cards have released a former #1 draft pick getting nothing in return during the off season. At least they got Kolb for DRC. Think about that for a minute. '05,'06,'07 and '08 #1 selections all gone since Feb. 2010.

And yet they have salary cap issues.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If the Cards release Brown it will be the 2nd year in a row the Cards have released a former #1 draft pick getting nothing in return during the off season. At least they got Kolb for DRC. Think about that for a minute. '05,'06,'07 and '08 #1 selections all gone since Feb. 2010.

And yet they have salary cap issues.

So you are saying we got nothing for drc too.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Brown is gone and if there wasn't a tag, Campbell would be too. It's Rod Graves we're talking about. I think it's funny they may start negotiiating this weekend with Brown. Unless Brown accepts what Cards offer, which will not be the case, where is his incentive to get any deal done? Hitting the open market can only drive up his value. This will end up with Graves trying to come in with a similar deal, and trying to save face, after Levi has agreed to terms with another team. We've seen it happen every year.

If there is a player who needs to have his value set by the market place it's Levi Brown. We simply don't know Levi's true value: Is he seen around the league as a L-tackle or Right? So, how can anyone suggest that his value will be driven up when we don't have a base to evaluate.

 

[Mitch]

Having thought some more about it I wonder if the Cardinals' plan is to do all they can to pursue Peyton Manning, which would mean, cap-wise, to release Levi Brown, Kevin Kolb and Stewart Bradley (and possibly more)---then address the left tackle position in the draft?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Having thought some more about it I wonder if the Cardinals' plan is to do all they can to pursue Peyton Manning, which would mean, cap-wise, to release Levi Brown, Kevin Kolb and Stewart Bradley (and possibly more)---then address the left tackle position in the draft?

In total, cutting Kolb and Bradley is a mere $4M CAP saving given the accelerated bonus in 2012. The Levi 17 or so million will be off the books and obviously going with a rookie with save bottom line cost for a LT, but, hardly a selling point with PM.

There are other ways of collecting the needed CAP space for a major signing like PM and meeting other needs. Fitz has a $15M misc. bonus due this year that could be spread across his deal; Wilson's over $6M is all salary and, again, could be turned into a bonus creating some room. The Cards would get almost as much relief ($1.75M) cutting Stuckey instead of Bradley.

 

[Mitch]

In total, cutting Kolb and Bradley is a mere $4M CAP saving given the accelerated bonus in 2012. The Levi 17 or so million will be off the books and obviously going with a rookie with save bottom line cost for a LT, but, hardly a selling point with PM.

There are other ways of collecting the needed CAP space for a major signing like PM and meeting other needs. Fitz has a $15M misc. bonus due this year that could be spread across his deal; Wilson's over $6M is all salary and, again, could be turned into a bonus creating some room. The Cards would get almost as much relief ($1.75M) cutting Stuckey instead of Bradley.

Good points!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If there is a player who needs to have his value set by the market place it's Levi Brown. We simply don't know Levi's true value: Is he seen around the league as a L-tackle or Right? So, how can anyone suggest that his value will be driven up when we don't have a base to evaluate.

You really think his market value is going to decrease when opened to more teams? He is going to be considered the #1 OT on the market. His market value is going to go nowhere but up. I think it was last year(could've been two years ago) a middle of the road DL signed a contract that made him the highest paid DT in the league. I think he signed with, or left the Lions. Last year, Charles Johnson inexplicably became the highest paid DE in the league because Carolina let him sniff around FA. Values are not going down when the player approaches FA.

 

[bg7brd]

This is more likely to happen:

Re-sign Levi and move him to right tackle.
Re-sign Lutui (Duece and Hadnot battle for RG)
Draft Jonathan Martin OT at 13
Draft a project guard in later rounds

Martin-College-Sendlein-Lutui-Brown

 

[Buckybird]

You really think his market value is going to decrease when opened to more teams? He is going to be considered the #1 OT on the market. His market value is going to go nowhere but up. I think it was last year(could've been two years ago) a middle of the road DL signed a contract that made him the highest paid DT in the league. I think he signed with, or left the Lions. Last year, Charles Johnson inexplicably became the highest paid DE in the league because Carolina let him sniff around FA. Values are not going down when the player approaches FA.

I agree totally with this.

Levi held all the cards in reworking his contract because he didn't have too, so he will be released & isn't coming back. He's a solid player but IMO not worth the $7-8 mil a year he will probably get in the open market.

Once again, the Cards lack of proactive thinking will cost this team another player & possibly more money if it tries adding another OT in FA. I really hope this doesn't force the Cards to draft & reach for a less talented player on the board in Rd 1 trying to fill that void...once again!

 

[Buckybird]

This is more likely to happen:

Re-sign Levi and move him to right tackle.
Re-sign Lutui (Duece and Hadnot battle for RG)
Draft Jonathan Martin OT at 13
Draft a project guard in later rounds

Martin-College-Sendlein-Lutui-Brown

Highly doubt it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You really think his market value is going to decrease when opened to more teams? He is going to be considered the #1 OT on the market. His market value is going to go nowhere but up. I think it was last year(could've been two years ago) a middle of the road DL signed a contract that made him the highest paid DT in the league. I think he signed with, or left the Lions. Last year, Charles Johnson inexplicably became the highest paid DE in the league because Carolina let him sniff around FA. Values are not going down when the player approaches FA.

What's his market value? We don't know and can't know until the market speaks. As mentioned: Will Levi be seen by the market place as a LT or RT?

Big difference at end of day.

Also, I have no idea what Levi is looking for and, thus, what he considers his market value. This latter point is not inconsequential.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I agree totally with this.

Levi held all the cards in reworking his contract because he didn't have too, so he will be released & isn't coming back. He's a solid player but IMO not worth the $7-8 mil a year he will probably get in the open market.

Once again, the Cards lack of proactive thinking will cost this team another player & possibly more money if it tries adding another OT in FA. I really hope this doesn't force the Cards to draft & reach for a less talented player on the board in Rd 1 trying to fill that void...once again!

It takes two to come to a deal, and if I was Levi's agent I'd strongly suggest we test the market unless the Cards are prepared to offer the $7,8 you mentioned. This has nothing to do with being proactive.

 

[Waysouth]

I look at it this way...if we keep him he counts $17 mm against the cap. If we cut him and let him establish his FMV, who in their right mind is going to pay Levi $8-$10 mm/yr? Let's say someone makes him an offer of $8 mm. The Cards, if they want to, could then top it by $1-$2 mm and still save $7-$8 mm against the cap. Would Levi be willing to walk away from that $1-$2 mm better offer?

This $7-$8 mm would be enough to get the opposite RT/LT.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I look at it this way...if we keep him he counts $17 mm against the cap. If we cut him and let him establish his FMV, who in their right mind is going to pay Levi $8-$10 mm/yr? Let's say someone makes him an offer of $8 mm. The Cards, if they want to, could then top it by $1-$2 mm and still save $7-$8 mm against the cap. Would Levi be willing to walk away from that $1-$2 mm better offer?

This $7-$8 mm would be enough to get the opposite RT/LT.

The chance of the Cards topping a $8M offer are, "slim and none... and slim left town."

 

[Stout]

The chance of the Cards topping a $8M offer are, "slim and none... and slim left town."

If we did, the whole FO should be locked away in the funny farm.

 

[az jam]

Levi will be cut and Campbell will be franchised. Do we really expect anything else out of Graves???

 

[Buckybird]

It takes two to come to a deal, and if I was Levi's agent I'd strongly suggest we test the market unless the Cards are prepared to offer the $7,8 you mentioned. This has nothing to do with being proactive.

CC, While I agree with it takes 2 to negotiate a deal & his agent should suggest he tests the market, why can't the Cards be proactive & try to redo his deal? We all knew he wouldn't sniff $17 mil, but teams redo contracts alot & it seems the Cards rarely do...just saying.

 

[Buckybird]

If we did, the whole FO should be locked away in the funny farm.

Well yea!

Stout I'm thinking Graves already lives on that farm.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

CC, While I agree with it takes 2 to negotiate a deal & his agent should suggest he tests the market, why can't the Cards be proactive & try to redo his deal? We all knew he wouldn't sniff $17 mil, but teams redo contracts alot & it seems the Cards rarely do...just saying.

Well, according to Tweets from the Combine, there's every reason to believe that Graves and Co. have an estimation of Levi's worth and have discussed this with his representative. It is also reported that Levi would like to stay in AZ. Sounds at least semi-semi proactive to me.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Well, according to Tweets from the Combine, there's every reason to believe that Graves and Co. have an estimation of Levi's worth and have discussed this with his representative. It is also reported that Levi would like to stay in AZ. Sounds at least semi-semi proactive to me.

When has Graves let on any different? According to him everything is always looking god. Then the player gets an offer and Graves goes into damage control mode.LIke I said,Brown wil resign if he takes what the Cards offer.FOr some reason,Graves thinks these players should give them a hometown discount. That may be the case if he tried to geta deal done before a player is a week beforef free agency.

 

[Buckybird]

When has Graves let on any different? According to him everything is always looking god. Then the player gets an offer and Graves goes into damage control mode.LIke I said,Brown wil resign if he takes what the Cards offer.FOr some reason,Graves thinks these players should give them a hometown discount. That may be the case if he tried to geta deal done before a player is a week beforef free agency.

Stop preaching reality. The Cards almost always seemed to screw with its own home grown talent til it's too late just like you said. Players see, know it & generally take their services elsewhere. When will they ever learn?

Cbus, I still say the bigger devil in all of this is the team owner!!!