Quick hit: 2 picks in round 1

[overseascardfan]

I agree. Everyone on this message board had it right. We were all arguing Leftwich vs Suggs, then Cardinal management picks neither.

They did get really lucky with the Boldin pick, and hindsight being 20/20 I think Boldin would've been a top 5 pick had the scouts known what he was really capable of.

That was such a terrible moment in Cardinal's history, I was overseas and stayed up to watch it at like 2 in the morning and I was elated to see Suggs on the board and they broke my heart when they traded down. Even the ESPN crew (Berman) was like "no, tell me they aren't trading the pick".

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wow.........Leftwich isn't that good. He is a chronic nagging injury guy who has showed little imporvement over a number of years. Then when he finally gets to the Playoffs he lays an egg. He is better than McCown but there are a ton of better Qbs in the NFL, including Gerrard.

You mean the guy Garrard can't beat out? Leftwich must be starting in front of him for some other reason than being a better QB. He had a bad game in NER after being out 4 weeks. You're right, he stinks.
Last year was his 3rd year and Jax has gotten better every year with him at the helm. What were they 12-4 last year? That's pretty good for having such a lower tier QB.

 

[BigDavis75]

You mean the guy Garrard can't beat out? Leftwich must be starting in front of him for some other reason than being a better QB. He had a bad game in NER after being out 4 weeks. You're right, he stinks.
Last year was his 3rd year and Jax has gotten better every year with him at the helm. What were they 12-4 last year? That's pretty good for having such a lower tier QB.

Leftwich is 0-1 in the playoffs and the passing offense hasn't amounted to much in the last 3 (he is averaging less than 200 passing per). Garrard has a better winning % and adds a whole new demension to the O. There are at least 12 QBs I would take over Leftwich. Also, Leftwich fumbles and has been sacked at a much much higher rate. He is starting in front of Gerrard b/c he was such a high pick and his coach loves him. That's it.

Honestly why do you like Leftwich? Is it because he is a good story and can take a licking??

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Roethlisberger would have made the Cardinals better. Maybe not last year. Maybe not even this year.

Assuming Roethlisberger is a better QB than Warner, McCown, Shaun King, and Navarre then it's pretty easy to say Ben would have made this team better over the last two seasons and it's not even a debate going ahead in time. And you have to have never watched football in your entire life to think any of these guys are better than Roethlisberger.

And can I again mention how stupid and misinformed the 'Big Ben is only good because of his supporting cast' argument is. If that was the case then how come the Steelers offense is so horrible with Maddox and Batch? How come Ben and the Steelers offense kept putting up points against good defenses on the road with a Cardinal-esque running attack?

 

[Redsz]

Maybe because Maddox and Batch suck?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maybe because Maddox and Batch suck?

But I thought it was all the running game and defense as to why Ben is so successful? If that was the case it wouldn't matter who was behind center.

 

[jefftheshark]

You're right, the Cardinals should never draft good players, because they're not as likely to have success here as if they were drafted by a better team.

Vince must be channeling Joseph Heller.

The Shark

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Leftwich is 0-1 in the playoffs and the passing offense hasn't amounted to much in the last 3 (he is averaging less than 200 passing per). Garrard has a better winning % and adds a whole new demension to the O. There are at least 12 QBs I would take over Leftwich. Also, Leftwich fumbles and has been sacked at a much much higher rate. He is starting in front of Gerrard b/c he was such a high pick and his coach loves him. That's it.

Honestly why do you like Leftwich? Is it because he is a good story and can take a licking??

I'm not saying Leftwich is the best QB in the league. But he is one of the most talented. The reason his numbers aren't off the chart is because he's pretty much played in a conservative style offense. Coaches play the best guy. They don't base it on draft status. You are right about his coach loves him. That's because the coach knows he's the best guy. Injuries are a concern with him but, let's say he played in Oakland's style of offense, he would be a star. As it is now, he's considered on the verge of stardom. You stick him on the Cards, like he should've been, he would be revered with the likes of Boldin and Fitz.

 

[spanky1]

Assuming Roethlisberger is a better QB than Warner, McCown, Shaun King, and Navarre then it's pretty easy to say Ben would have made this team better over the last two seasons and it's not even a debate going ahead in time. And you have to have never watched football in your entire life to think any of these guys are better than Roethlisberger.

And can I again mention how stupid and misinformed the 'Big Ben is only good because of his supporting cast' argument is. If that was the case then how come the Steelers offense is so horrible with Maddox and Batch? How come Ben and the Steelers offense kept putting up points against good defenses on the road with a Cardinal-esque running attack?

Maddox and Batch haven't played but a game since Ben was drafted.

 

[spanky1]

I'm not saying Leftwich is the best QB in the league. But he is one of the most talented. The reason his numbers aren't off the chart is because he's pretty much played in a conservative style offense. Coaches play the best guy. They don't base it on draft status. You are right about his coach loves him. That's because the coach knows he's the best guy. Injuries are a concern with him but, let's say he played in Oakland's style of offense, he would be a star. As it is now, he's considered on the verge of stardom. You stick him on the Cards, like he should've been, he would be revered with the likes of Boldin and Fitz.

You've got to be kidding.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You've got to be kidding.

No, i'm not. Hell, there's a ton of love for Josh Mccown on this board and he's one of the worst QB's in the league. Imagine what a legitimate young star QB would be like. Cutler isn't even likely to be drafted and there's people gushing about him.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maddox and Batch haven't played but a game since Ben was drafted.

Not true. Maddox actually began 2004 as a starter and was horrible until Roethliberger came in and went undefeated through the regular season. And Roethlisberger also missed four games this year because of a minor knee injury.

 

[Duckjake]

Assuming Roethlisberger is a better QB than Warner, McCown, Shaun King, and Navarre then it's pretty easy to say Ben would have made this team better over the last two seasons and it's not even a debate going ahead in time. And you have to have never watched football in your entire life to think any of these guys are better than Roethlisberger.

And can I again mention how stupid and misinformed the 'Big Ben is only good because of his supporting cast' argument is. If that was the case then how come the Steelers offense is so horrible with Maddox and Batch? How come Ben and the Steelers offense kept putting up points against good defenses on the road with a Cardinal-esque running attack?

The Steelers are averaging around 90 yards a game rushing. Hardly Cardinal-esque. However Willie Parker has been doing a pretty good JJ Arrington imitation during the playoffs.

 

[BigDavis75]

I'm not saying Leftwich is the best QB in the league. But he is one of the most talented. The reason his numbers aren't off the chart is because he's pretty much played in a conservative style offense. Coaches play the best guy. They don't base it on draft status. You are right about his coach loves him. That's because the coach knows he's the best guy. Injuries are a concern with him but, let's say he played in Oakland's style of offense, he would be a star. As it is now, he's considered on the verge of stardom. You stick him on the Cards, like he should've been, he would be revered with the likes of Boldin and Fitz.

Verge of stardom? His career high is 15 TDs passing. He is always going to be in the second level of NFL QBs and will never do anything significant in the NFL.

 

[BigDavis75]

The Steelers are averaging around 90 yards a game rushing. Hardly Cardinal-esque. However Willie Parker has been doing a pretty good JJ Arrington imitation during the playoffs.

Willie is much better than JJ, he is just not getting the blocking. Saying they average under 100 is only proving how good Ben is; Ben has had to carry the offense and has done so extremely well, better than he had when the running game was one of the league's best. The emergence of Ben made it unnecessary to carry Duce on the active roster, for example.

 

[Duckjake]

Willie is much better than JJ, he is just not getting the blocking. Saying they average under 100 is only proving how good Ben is; Ben has had to carry the offense and has done so extremely well, better than he had when the running game was one of the league's best. The emergence of Ben made it unnecessary to carry Duce on the active roster, for example.

It was only to prove that the Steelers run game was not Cardinalesque. To be like the Cards their RB's would have to average, say, 55 yards a game.

And though Parker was very good durning the regular season he has looked Cardinalesque in the postseason averaging 2.8 ypc and trying to dive under tacklers.

If you really want to see what BR has done for the Steelers just look at his performance in the redzone. QB rating of over 100.

BTW: Not to knock big Ben but in the two games that Batch had significant playing time the Steelers won both and scored 54 points.

 

[BigDavis75]

It was only to prove that the Steelers run game was not Cardinalesque. To be like the Cards their RB's would have to average, say, 55 yards a game.

And though Parker was very good durning the regular season he has looked Cardinalesque in the postseason averaging 2.8 ypc and trying to dive under tacklers.

If you really want to see what BR has done for the Steelers just look at his performance in the redzone. QB rating of over 100.

BTW: Not to knock big Ben but in the two games that Batch had significant playing time the Steelers won both and scored 54 points.

I understood the contrast that you were trying to make to the Cards run game with the < 100 figure but I found it a good point in a separate issue.

In Batch's two games he played against the Browns and Pack, two terrible pass Ds. Also, I've never liked Maddox..........I was a Kordell guy. I seriously loved Kordell as much as Cowher did. I remember when Kordell was benched following two bad performances vs. OAK and NE (after Kordell threw like 4 picks in the Champ. vs. NE) and Maddox came in and did well. During this Maddox was hurt and Kordell came in and won vs. Cincy and JAX and Maddox was given the job back, it was contrary to what Bill usually does and I hated it. I used to always have arguments with other Steeler fans over whether Maddox was good or not, this season has only further proved my point. I actually wanted to hurt him after the JAX game this season.

Point is, I hate Maddox and am glad that Batch finally has the #2 spot.

 

[Duckjake]

In Batch's two games he played against the Browns and Pack, two terrible pass Ds.

He didn't do much against either team, I think he threw 35 passes in the two games combined, but then the Steelers still won.

The Steelers though are all about Cowher. The guys had only 3 losing seasons in 14 years.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Verge of stardom? His career high is 15 TDs passing. He is always going to be in the second level of NFL QBs and will never do anything significant in the NFL.

we'll see if the great Vince Young ever throws for 15 TD's in the NFL. I'll assume you're not that naive and just trying to get a reaction out of me.

 

[BigDavis75]

we'll see if the great Vince Young ever throws for 15 TD's in the NFL. I'll assume you're not that naive and just trying to get a reaction out of me.

Are you bringing up Young because I really like him? Your response in no way discredited my statement. Verge of stardom....please. If you would like for me to put together a list of better QBs I will.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I'd take Leftwhich over Pace and Bryant Johnson.

 

[Redsz]

But I thought it was all the running game and defense as to why Ben is so successful? If that was the case it wouldn't matter who was behind center.

The defense and running game certainly play a part in it, yes.

And I'm not saying Roth hasn't played well. But what would the results be if they put in a half decent QB? Similar?

 

[vince56]

I'd take Leftwhich over Pace and Bryant Johnson.

Yeah, or Suggs. It irks me because everyone on this message board had it right. We debated Suggs/Leftwich for months before the draft, then the team drafts two scrubs that none of us had really thought about. It was a tell-tale case where the fans knew what was best a lot better than management did. Friggin' Suggs was from here in Phoenix! We saw him play every weekend for years. We knew how good he was. He was unstoppable, unblockable at ASU, and has turned into a pretty good pro, even with his slow 40 time at the combine.

Imagine how Boldin and Fitz would look with Leftwich throwing to them. Imagine our defensive line with Berry at one end and Suggs at the other, or with Suggs at WLB across from Dansby at SLB. Either of those options is better than Johnson/Pace by a long shot.