Quick Thoughts - Week 12 @49ers

[kerouac9]

-Honey Badger is a great player, but a liability in coverage.

Mind blown. I hope this is the kind of thing you regret writing the next morning. Mathieu is the biggest play-maker in the secondary — including Peterson. You can maybe make the argument that he has natural limitations against big tight ends, but Mathieu is a catalyst in the passing game.

It's been in the back of my mind for the past few weeks.

It's time to start David Johnson. Let the kid get 25 touches a game. I think he'll be the best back on the roster by the end of the year.

Maybe. The problem is that he's not good in pass pro. It should speak volumes that when push came to shove, Stepfan Taylor was out there on third-and-obvious passing downs. Between the ball security and lack of experience as a blocker, I think it's hard to keep in on the field every down.

At this point, Andre Ellington isn't an alternative if Chris Johnson is out. That said, I trust that Arians knows more about this than the Cards do.

And lastly, I think Gabbert is showing that he could be a long term starter in the Alex Smith mold...

We'll see. I think he's more Matt Cassell than Alex Smith.

 

[Iceman]

Do you blame it on him or the Oline? There haven't been to main big holes for him to go through and maybe half the time, he gets stopped a few feet after he gets the ball. I'm thinking its more the Oline not giving him the holes and time to get started on the run. I could be wrong though.

Well, towards the end of the game when DJ was getting the ball, he was exploding through the line and making decent gains. That's not how CJ runs, but it might be time to let DJ get more carries to have that downhill runner type RB. He will probably get his chance now if CJ and AE are out next week. Just hope he can hold onto the ball

 

[TJ]

Mind blown. I hope this is the kind of thing you regret writing the next morning. Mathieu is the biggest play-maker in the secondary — including Peterson.

I see literacy is not one of your strong suits.

He is a bonafide playmaker, but is soft in pass coverage based on a) natural size limitation as you mentioned and b) being a step behind of his man. How many TDs has he been responsible for?

In all facets of playing DB, he passes the eye test, with the lone exception being his cover skills.

 

[conraddobler]

We'll see. I think he's more Matt Cassell than Alex Smith.

Nope I know a fair bit about Gabbert because he played at Mizzou and I watched him for years.

He has an exponentially better arm than either of those although for some reason he rarely shows it in the NFL.

My biggest fear with Gabbert is that when the pressure is on he tends to check down way too fast.

I don't know if it's shell shock from his years at the Jags or if it's just him if he grows out of that and ever becomes money in pressure situations then he'll be very good.

 

[kerouac9]

I see literacy is not one of your strong suits.

Strong reply. Mathieu has 4 INT and 9 passes defensed this season. He's 5'9"; where would you play him if he were a liabilitiy in coverage? Maybe you can just take a mulligan on this one. Or support your assertion with some evidence.

Nope I know a fair bit about Gabbert because he played at Mizzou and I watched him for years.

He has an exponentially better arm than either of those although for some reason he rarely shows it in the NFL.

My biggest fear with Gabbert is that when the pressure is on he tends to check down way too fast.

I don't know if it's shell shock from his years at the Jags or if it's just him if he grows out of that and ever becomes money in pressure situations then he'll be very good.

Alex Smith has a good arm; he just doesn't use it because he's so careful about turnovers. I mostly think that Gabbert will get rattled if you hit him, and it's rare that someone who was historically terrible in his first few NFL seasons (like Jamarcus Russell-terrible) turns into anything like a productive starter.

Arm talent isn't enough. I think you could say "if he just starts playing good football instead of bad football, he'll be a good football player" about a lot of guys. That's what I get out of if he "ever becomes money in pressure situations then he'll be very good."

 

[TJ]

Strong reply. Mathieu has 4 INT and 9 passes defensed this season. He's 5'9"; where would you play him if he were a liabilitiy in coverage? Maybe you can just take a mulligan on this one. Or support your assertion with some evidence.

Why dont you reread instead of chopping up a bit of my post if you want your evidence, and follow it up by watching some games?

If you're going to fall back on sophomoric statements in an effort to futilely respond to my posts, I'm not going to entertain this discussion with you.

 

[PDXChris]

Do you blame it on him or the Oline? There haven't been to main big holes for him to go through and maybe half the time, he gets stopped a few feet after he gets the ball. I'm thinking its more the Oline not giving him the holes and time to get started on the run. I could be wrong though.

It's on CJ. He is afraid to hit the holes and instead bounces to the outside for a very short gain. When was does hit the hole, he gets 4-5 yards. Early on, he was able to break free because defenses were not playing to stop him on the outside, but now they are.

 

[Russ Smith]

Mind blown. I hope this is the kind of thing you regret writing the next morning. Mathieu is the biggest play-maker in the secondary — including Peterson. You can maybe make the argument that he has natural limitations against big tight ends, but Mathieu is a catalyst in the passing game.



Maybe. The problem is that he's not good in pass pro. It should speak volumes that when push came to shove, Stepfan Taylor was out there on third-and-obvious passing downs. Between the ball security and lack of experience as a blocker, I think it's hard to keep in on the field every down.

At this point, Andre Ellington isn't an alternative if Chris Johnson is out. That said, I trust that Arians knows more about this than the Cards do.



We'll see. I think he's more Matt Cassell than Alex Smith.

Dj had a couple of nice blocks in the passing game I was paying attention, but one of the plays Palmer got hit on the throw he got bullied back by a blitzing S, and on another he whiffed and Carson threw the ball away.

I think the Cards use him and Taylor totally differently, they are hoping the defense will be so worried about Johnson as a receiver they will bring one less blitzer. With Taylor they almost always keep him in, every now and then they sneak him out and it almost always gets a decent gain because the defense is so surprised he didn't stay in and block. I suspect we'll see that next week I'm guessing DJ gets the start and Taylor the backup.

I like DJ's potential but I don't think he's ready to start so I hope he does ok.

 

[kerouac9]

Why dont you reread instead of chopping up a bit of my post if you want your evidence, and follow it up by watching some games?

If you're going to fall back on sophomoric statements in an effort to futilely respond to my posts, I'm not going to entertain this discussion with you.

LOL. Because you obviously didn't think that your post was very strong, since you went back and edited it to back up your point. So...

He is a bonafide playmaker,

Except for that he's a liability in coverage, right? All the plays he makes must be in the run game.

but is soft in pass coverage based on a) natural size limitation as you mentioned and b) being a step behind of his man. How many TDs has he been responsible for?

I don't know. Find some evidence. Build your case. I'd guess fewer than the amount of interceptions that he has. But he's a liability in coverage.

He's usually running a step behind his man, but he's also playing "Trail technique." Here, you can learn about it: https://www.coachup.com/resources/football/defensive-back-technique#close

Mathieu has strong enough instincts and ball awareness to step in front of passes on their way to many receivers — it's how he got ANOTHER interception yesterday. He'll trail guys, but rarely do his assignments run away from him.

Where Mathieu has challenges is when he's matched up in the red zone against much larger tight ends, but even then he gets his share of victories.

In all facets of playing DB, he passes the eye test, with the lone exception being his cover skills.

So, you're saying that he's a great defensive back, except for covering people, which is the primary responsibility of a defensive back? And I have a literacy problem? LOL.

I think you MIGHT be trying to say that you don't like Mathieu as a cornerback as much as you do as a safety — that he's better when the game is in front of him and he can break on the ball after it's released by the QB. I haven't seen enough of him doing that in action to say for sure, but I think that he's strong at the line of scrimmage in run support and rushing the passer that you want to make sure that he has that flexibility, which makes him a more useful nickel cornerback than a traditional deep safety.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's on CJ. He is afraid to hit the holes and instead bounces to the outside for a very short gain. When was does hit the hole, he gets 4-5 yards. Early on, he was able to break free because defenses were not playing to stop him on the outside, but now they are.

What made him a revelation early on was how well he ran between the tackles. I think with the guard situation he's trying to bounce runs more and he's not as fast as he used to and is getting caught. He's still a much tougher runner than Ellington and frankly I think he's tougher than DJ, he's just 30 pounds lighter so he can't move the pile as much. CJ always falls forward, DJ has a bad habit of turning his back and trying to drive backwards which exposes him more to big shots or getting stripped.

 

[football karma]

What made him a revelation early on was how well he ran between the tackles. I think with the guard situation he's trying to bounce runs more and he's not as fast as he used to and is getting caught. He's still a much tougher runner than Ellington and frankly I think he's tougher than DJ, he's just 30 pounds lighter so he can't move the pile as much. CJ always falls forward, DJ has a bad habit of turning his back and trying to drive backwards which exposes him more to big shots or getting stripped.

DJ has a little skip step he like to take as he approaches the hole --

it robs him of forward momentum

when he just goes -- you see the burst and he blasts through arm tackles

when he takes that skip step -- those arm tackles bring him down

 

[Krangodnzr]

Dj had a couple of nice blocks in the passing game I was paying attention, but one of the plays Palmer got hit on the throw he got bullied back by a blitzing S, and on another he whiffed and Carson threw the ball away.

The blitzing safety had a running start (near full sprint). That's a tough blitz pick up for any RB.

I thought this was likely one of Arians top 5 WORSE gameplanned games since he has been coach. The protection schemes consistently left open blitzers and I don't think the Cardinals adjusted well.

This was just one of those games that good teams win by shear determination, because the Niners brought their A game and the Cardinals didn't looked prepared for what the Niners were doing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

-Honey Badger is a great player, but a liability in coverage.

I'm with Kerouac here, I think Mathieu is an ++++++ guy in coverage. Outside of the occasional reception and occasionally being out of position, he makes plays on the ball whether it's deflections/hits or interceptions.

There is a reason that some are touting him as a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. I think Mathieu is a top five defender in the NFL right now.

 

[Darkside]

Lol @ the TM criticism. He led both teams yesterday in tackles with 13, the next closest player on either team had 8. Also recorded an INT. 13 tackles and 1 INT is a better game than anyone on either team had.

PP opens up Mathieu's game, but TM is our best playmaker on defense, and it's not close.

Smallest guy on the team, regularly leads them in tackles, has the most interceptions, has the most passes defensed.

He's nasty.

(edit: many players would be fine with 5 total tackles, but for Mathieu 5 is the difference between him and the next closest guy on either team. Remarkable.)

 

[TJ]

Lol @ the TM criticism. He led both teams yesterday in tackles with 13, the next closest player on either team had 8. Also recorded an INT. 13 tackles and 1 INT is a better game than anyone on either team had.

PP opens up Mathieu's game, but TM is our best playmaker on defense, and it's not close.

Smallest guy on the team, regularly leads them in tackles, has the most interceptions, has the most passes defensed.

He's nasty.

Holy crap, one person fails to read my post properly and the misunderstanding spreads like wildfire [emoji43][emoji43][emoji43]

I'll help you all out:

He's a phenomenal player. He makes earth-shattering tackles and is a natural playmaker. He's one of my favorite players on the team. With that said, he finds himself on the wrong side of TEs and some slot WRs in pass defense, particularly in the end zone. He takes advantage of poor throws and picks some off, such as the overthrow by Wilson against Seattle.

Here's an accurate comparison--he's an upgraded version of Antrele Rolle.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Holy crap, one person fails to read my post properly and the misunderstanding spreads like wildfire [emoji43][emoji43][emoji43]

I'll help you all out:

He's a phenomenal player. He makes earth-shattering tackles and is a natural playmaker. He's one of my favorite players on the team. With that said, he finds himself on the wrong side of TEs and some slot WRs in pass defense, particularly in the end zone. He takes advantage of poor throws and picks some off, such as the overthrow by Wilson against Seattle.

Here's an accurate comparison--he's an upgraded version of Antrele Rolle.

I will help you out then....we disagree with you.....

TM is a legitimate contender for DPOY and that doesn't happen by being a "liability" in coverage. Yes the guy has a pretty big size discrepancy that is especially apparent against TEs in the redzone, but he still makes far more good plays than he does bad.

 

[Russ Smith]

The blitzing safety had a running start (near full sprint). That's a tough blitz pick up for any RB.

I thought this was likely one of Arians top 5 WORSE gameplanned games since he has been coach. The protection schemes consistently left open blitzers and I don't think the Cardinals adjusted well.

This was just one of those games that good teams win by shear determination, because the Niners brought their A game and the Cardinals didn't looked prepared for what the Niners were doing.

Oh I didn't mean he did horribly on the block, just that it caused us to not have enough time. There are clearly plays where the S as you said is coming full speed the RB doesn't have time to step up so despite being 20 pounds bigger he's got less momentum. I thought yesterday was the best blocking game I've seen from DJ. He at least was picking the right guy to block and trying to block him.

Ellington is in year 3 and still frequently blocks the wrong guy which is why last week (or the week before) when he made 2 good pass blocks we all noticed it.

 

[Capital Card]

btw: best play call of the day by BA?

end of game -- 2 mins and some change left, Cards first and 10. 49ers with 1 TO left

this had all the look of three hand offs, and a punt back to SF with 1:15 left in the game or so

instead, the quick slant on first down to John Brown for a first down --- 2 minute warning burned and three kneel downs ices it.

On this play, Palmer checked out of the called play to run this as the corner was giving deep cushion. Palmer knew it would be an easy gain for Brown.

Give BA credit, as he encourages Palmer to make this adjustment, but it wasn't the called play.

Go Cards!!!

 

[BigRedRage]

his knee had been bothering him all week. We'll see. he is still top 5 in the NFL and ellington/DJ cant do what he does so far.

 

[BigRedRage]

Holy crap, one person fails to read my post properly and the misunderstanding spreads like wildfire [emoji43][emoji43][emoji43]

I'll help you all out:

He's a phenomenal player. He makes earth-shattering tackles and is a natural playmaker. He's one of my favorite players on the team. With that said, he finds himself on the wrong side of TEs and some slot WRs in pass defense, particularly in the end zone. He takes advantage of poor throws and picks some off, such as the overthrow by Wilson against Seattle.

Here's an accurate comparison--he's an upgraded version of Antrele Rolle.

Sure if role is a ford pinto. HB is light years better than role imo

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

 

[JCSunsfan]

I will help you out then....we disagree with you.....

TM is a legitimate contender for DPOY and that doesn't happen by being a "liability" in coverage. Yes the guy has a pretty big size discrepancy that is especially apparent against TEs in the redzone, but he still makes far more good plays than he does bad.

He had 11 solo tackles yesterday. Anquan was the guy he covered most yesterday and he covered him well. He also tackled him unassisted in the open field. Not many db's in the league can do that. That interception he made, he had to have eyes in the back of his head. The kid has insane instincts. I cannot see AT ALL how he is a liability in coverage. He is playing at a level with the best Cardinals defenders of all time.

 

[Cardiac]

I'm thrilled to have the Honey Badger on this team and agree he is a fantastic playmaker on D. His instincts are top notch and he can take on any size player and tackle/bring them down pretty much at the point of impact.

The HB nickname is a perfect fit because he has that kind of attitude and physical ability, smallish but plays like a giant. He has shut down all kinds of receivers and can blitz like a maniac.

What I do remember is HB getting burned for several TD's this year. Does anyone know where to get the actual total of TD's he has given up? My guess is about 4 TD's so far and not sure how good or bad that # is.

 

[Darkside]

I'm thrilled to have the Honey Badger on this team and agree he is a fantastic playmaker on D. His instincts are top notch and he can take on any size player and tackle/bring them down pretty much at the point of impact.

The HB nickname is a perfect fit because he has that kind of attitude and physical ability, smallish but plays like a giant. He has shut down all kinds of receivers and can blitz like a maniac.

What I do remember is HB getting burned for several TD's this year. Does anyone know where to get the actual total of TD's he has given up? My guess is about 4 TD's so far and not sure how good or bad that # is.

Just off the top of my head I'd say 2 TDs he's been "burned" for. He makes mistakes, he's missed tackles also, but most often he's being told to cover in a trail technique so he can make plays in front of him. Those TDs over the top aren't necessarily his responsibility since he's in a trail position and peeking so he can make plays (while covering).

Anyone claiming he has coverage issues are mistaken however. He's being asked to cover the way he does and do the things he does because he's so versatile and, basically, so kickass, so they want to keep everything in front of him, even while in coverage. That's how he racks up tackles and INTs.

He's doing his job extremely well and it's a job most players can't do, especially at his size. People talk about other players getting too many touches and taking hits and wearing out but they never mention Mathieu, who is smaller and takes/delivers more hits than anyone.