Quiet in here POLL...

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
I'll bet at this point (P.J. Brown) is better then Alonzo in nearly every aspect of the game.

Including the ability to defend Western Conference centers? Brown checks in at only 240 pounds. He's basically the same size as Marcus Camby.

Or how about the ability to score? Mourning averaged 15.7 points per game in his first comeback, and that was a career low (ignoring the abbreviated action he saw in '00-'01, when his condition was first diagnosed). Brown's highest-scoring season was 11.4, and he's been in double figures only three years out of ten in his career.

I think preferring Brown over Mourning because of health and availability issues makes sense. I think preferring Brown because of the belief that he'd be better than a healthy Mourning is borderline absurd.

Don't get me wrong. If I thought Alonzo mourning could play just as well as he did the last time he came back I would rather have him. I'm just not sure. I also factored the possibilities of a relapse into my equation. I think either of these players would make the Suns a playoff certainty, and I'd be expecting them to go away from farther. I just don't think either one is a real possibility.

I'm enjoying the playoffs, but I'm kind of excited to see where all of these free agents end up, how the draft unfolds, and what kind of trades go down. It should be much more exciting than last summer.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I have said all along that I would prefer to have a defensive, hard working pleyer in the middle.

The Suns already have that in Bo Outlaw.

P.J. Brown is not a center either.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
I have said all along that I would prefer to have a defensive, hard working pleyer in the middle.

The Suns already have that in Bo Outlaw.

P.J. Brown is not a center either.

Brown is a much better low post defender. He's also a better rebounder. I like Outlaw's scrambling defense, but Brown would be an upgrade in the half-court offense and defense.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Come on yourself. That wasn't the point and you know it. Yes, Gasol is unrealistic and absurd, but there are any number of possibilities. What about Chicago? LA Clippers? You can never say never.

You think that Alonzo Mourning would accept a sign and trade to Chicago or the Clippers?`

Chicago could offer Curry, Chandler,Crawford, picks etc but you can only sign and trade a player if he accepts.

I would bet that there are only 5-6 teams that Alonzo would consider and those are likely not teams that can offer young talent or would offer talent in a sign and trade for Mourning.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
I have said all along that I would prefer to have a defensive, hard working pleyer in the middle.

The Suns already have that in Bo Outlaw.

P.J. Brown is not a center either.

Yes but "I think we all agree that the Suns could use some help at center. Since a perfect solution is unlikely to present itself, they should probably pursue some imperfect solutions. It's hard to know what is or is not realistic, but there are a lot of possibilities out there."

 

[elindholm]

Yes but "I think we all agree that the Suns could use some help at center. Since a perfect solution is unlikely to present itself, they should probably pursue some imperfect solutions. It's hard to know what is or is not realistic, but there are a lot of possibilities out there."

Heh!

I thought the discussion was whether Brown is a better choice than Mourning, within the stipulation that the Suns believe in Mourning's health. I still strongly favor Mourning in response to that choice.

I like P.J. Brown a lot and would be happy to see him on the team. I don't think he'd add a lot, since his position (PF/small C) is already pretty well covered. But his addition might make it more feasible to trade Outlaw, so that is another consideration.

 

[slinslin]

What about

Bo Outlaw+Clev future first
for
Stewart, Diop and Clev 2nd round pick

That would give us the first pick of the second round this year and a new center prospect.

We could throw in Tsakalidis (or Jacobsen) to get rid of some salaries much depending on what happens with Voshkul, Williams or Campbell.
Deal also works if you include Tsakalidis and Mihm.

Stewart's contract is as long as Outlaw's.

Campbell/Voshkul/Diop
Amare/Mihm/(Googs)
Marion
Penny/Johnson/Jacobsen
Marbury
IR:Stewart

#17 and #30

 

[Chaplin]

I'd rather have Outlaw than Stewart. That's a huge difference.

 

[slinslin]

Stewart isn't the key in this deal. It's about Diop and the #1 pick in the second round.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Stewart isn't the key in this deal. It's about Diop and the #1 pick in the second round.

Interesting how thegrahamcracker doesn't see any value in the #17 pick, and you are the exact opposite who finds a lot of value in the #17 AND the #30.

Interesting.

 

[slinslin]

Well the #1 pick in the 2nd round allows you to pick the best player that didn't go in the first round without having to pay him a guaranteed first round contract.

At #30 you could probably draft a guy like Chris Thomas this year or could take a chance on any of the highschoolers.

I also think that Chris Mihm could be a great addition and improvement over Big Jake or Bo at C and PF. He is 7' and has a decent perimeter game to play either with Amare or get backup minutes at the PF spot.

Personally I just think that Diop is a better prospect than Big Jake he didn't show much in the NBA so far but had a good summerleague. He has the size and is a good shotblocker.

It's a gamble but I would do it. You could also replace either Mihm or Diop with Jumaine Jones and it would work I think.

Another trade I would consider is Penny for Brandon, Peeler and maybe the Wolves pick.

 

[jbeecham]

Wolves haven't had a draft pick in a long time thanks to Joe Smith and there's no way they trade it.

 

[slinslin]

It's only the #26 pick but anyway the deal looks good even without the pick because after next season Brandon, Peeler and Googs would be gone.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
It's only the #26 pick but anyway the deal looks good even without the pick because after next season Brandon, Peeler and Googs would be gone.

Peeler will be a FA only in 2005.

Anyway I would do the Brandon/Peeler for Penny deal at a heartbeat.
It's very likely that Brandon will retire so his 11 mil. salary would be off the books in March 2004.
That means that Suns wouldn't pay luxury tax and they probably could use their mid-level already THIS OFFSEASON without paying luxury tax.

I would sweeten this deal more for MIN if they would demand more.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Well the #1 pick in the 2nd round allows you to pick the best player that didn't go in the first round without having to pay him a guaranteed first round contract.

At #30 you could probably draft a guy like Chris Thomas this year or could take a chance on any of the highschoolers

I'm with slinslin in this.
I like high 2nd rounders.Especially if you can get Chris Thomas with them.He would be a huge steal at #30.

I would do the Outlaw,CLE's 1st,Tsakalidis or Jacobsen for Stewart,Diop,CLE's 2nd rounder deal.

 

[slinslin]

Who could we realistically get with the mid-level this offseason?

Mourning? Maybe even Magette?

Too bad Peeler isn't FA. I would probably consider the same trade with Mark Jackson instead of Peeler although his contract is 2 years longer we could afford to let Voshkul walk while Peeler would hardly see any minutes.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Who could we realistically get with the mid-level this offseason?

Mourning? Maybe even Magette?

I think that Maggette will get better offers.

At least we would be able to make an offer sheet either of Nesterovic,Clark,Brown and Howard.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin


Too bad Peeler isn't FA. I would probably consider the same trade with Mark Jackson instead of Peeler although his contract is 2 years longer we could afford to let Voshkul walk while Peeler would hardly see any minutes.

Please no Mark Jackson.
He is a bigger version of John Wallace.

I liked what I saw this year from Peeler.He got better defensively and he always was a good shooter.
I think that he would be an OK backup of Joe Johnson.

 

[slinslin]

I liked Mark Jackson when I saw him against the Suns and the first round against the Lakers.

We could sure us a wide body with a very solid midrange jumper who can come off the bench and put some points on the scoreboard.

 

[JS22]

I think everyone is overlooking Mihm here. He would be a VERY nice addition to this team. Right now he is just rotting away in cleveland and he seems like the perfect guy for a "change of scenery." And he fits in pretty well with the style of ball that Johnson likes to play. Amare + Mihm wouldnt be too bad really.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by WastedFate
I think everyone is overlooking Mihm here.

I wasn't overlooking him.

I just said that I would do this trade even without him.
In other words I doubt that CLE would do slinslin's original deal.

 

[JS22]

I wasnt specifically talking about you, its just that nobody else said anything about Mihm.

 

[elindholm]

The trade proposal I saw included giving up Tsakalidis in order to get Mihm. I would rather have Tsakalidis.

Mihm is not an accurate enough shooter (42% career) to be an effective weapon. He would join the long line of Suns centers who "can" shoot from 15 feet, but never seem to make the shot when you need them to. Longley, Kleine, Schayes, Williams -- haven't we had enough already?

No thanks. At least Tsakalidis, even if he doesn't improve any further, can be kept around as a specialty defender to be used against large centers (i.e. O'Neal, Yao, ... uh, there are probably some others).

And DeSagana Diop hasn't shown anything yet. Sure, he's young and may still develop, but the same is true for Tsakalidis. Why trade one project for another?

 

[slinslin]

Diop came out straight out of highschool and was a lottery pick. Really only played 1 full season so far.

He is a better prospect than Tsakalidis in my opinion. Right now Big Jake might be better but Diop has more upside.

 

[elindholm]

Diop came out straight out of highschool and was a lottery pick. Really only played 1 full season so far.

Tsakalidis was projected as high as top-five before teams became concerned about his contract.