Raiders Game: First Impressions

[DieHardCardFan]

Tango, this is one instance where I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know if you were at the game or watched it on TV. The intensity level was very high last night. Before the game started (during warm-ups) the Cards got into a big huddle, starting jumping up and down and hollering "Our house----our house!!!!" During the whole first half, Wilson and Macklin and Thompson were hurtling their bodies into Oaklands players, making huge tackles and then jumping up and screaming at their opponents. They actually intimidated the Raiders. This is the first time in recent memory where I can remember the Cardinals being more physical both offensively and defensively. They wanted to show the Raiders that if you come to the Cards house, you will find pain and I think they were very effective in doing so.

Exactly! The team actually was fired up and playing very physical! I was there and let me tell you, they had all of us feeling pretty good!

 

[vince56]

You have been hiding your Green-bigotry pretty well the last week; but the "concerned reasonlableness" you've been cloaking yourself in just fell off. You HATE Green so much, you can't even see reality. Do us all a favor and TAKE OFF those piss-colored glasses.

well said.

 

[ajcardfan]

I said several times this offseason that we should be noticably better by game 8. That's fair, IMO. Some are giving him a year, that's fair too. It just is not fair to bang on him this hard in preseason when he took over a team worst in points scored and points allowed last season.

I never wanted McGinnis to be hired. I said over and over, "Don't do it. The team is too bad. EVERYONE needs to be fired, even the janitor and secretaries." I wanted Cottrell or Willingham. Well, he was hired. Then I said, "Okay, maybe if he brings in a new staff." Well, he didn't, he basically kept the defensive coaches and fired some of the offense guys. My point is, while I criticized the team's play at times, I never, ever showed Mac the ill will that Green is getting from a few. I thought he was too close to the players. So close, his "accountability" speeches rang hollow. But, you never heard me harp about it.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Amazing, simply amazing.

My viewpoint doesn't always coincide with some others. And the insults start pouring in because of my differing view.

I think its just flat laughable that someone can now come on to this board, posting for ME to not post because of that.

Like I said, before. I was a CARD fan long before Dennis Green came to town, and I will still be one long after he's gone, unless I die first.

I think before people start calling me out, inferring that I'm some Johnny-come-lately not only fan, but poster to this forum (and it's predecessors), maybe they better stop and look in the mirror a little.

...and Clif..if you don't like my posts..

Don't read them, or put me on ignore. I'm not here to impress you...or anyone else. Like I said with Green and the Cards....I was posting here long, long before you ever showed up on the scene, and very possibly will be, long after you've departed. (Skkorp willing).
Who are you to tell me whether my posts are worthy of this forum or not?

 

[Rats]

Only time is going to tell, I guess, here. And I will gladly recant any of the errors I may be making...when and if they are indeed proven to be so.

I would prefer you just keep your opinion to yourself so that we can avoid the condesending tone of "I told you so" that you invariably revert to. You sit on the fence and when it is good you give support when it is bad you are a harsh critic....It's only my opinion but you are one that I would just assume ignore...you seem to ignore the positive things in regards to the Cards and go after there defecencies, as if most of us didn't know that the team had them....get over yourself....

 

[Tangodnzr]

LOL...how things do change.

A year ago, I was taking the same heat, from a lot of the same group of people for being too overly and constantly optomistic about this team.

Now many of those same people are on my case about my "negativity".

Who's the one's with exactly what agenda here?

 

[SECTION 11]

I think it's going to be a long year. But, I think it'll be worth it in the long run.
The days of losing 44-6 to Cleveland are done. The days of going 4-12 are still trying to hang on.

Other than that, I'm still waiting for the "coaching up" of both lines, especially Pace.

 

[SECTION 11]

Tango getting blasted for being too negative...
Ouchie and Cheese on Koolaid duty...

It's official, it's bizzaro world.

 

[clif]

Amazing, simply amazing.

My viewpoint doesn't always coincide with some others. And the insults start pouring in because of my differing view.

I think its just flat laughable that someone can now come on to this board, posting for ME to not post because of that.

Like I said, before. I was a CARD fan long before Dennis Green came to town, and I will still be one long after he's gone, unless I die first.

I think before people start calling me out, inferring that I'm some Johnny-come-lately not only fan, but poster to this forum (and it's predecessors), maybe they better stop and look in the mirror a little.

...and Clif..if you don't like my posts..

Don't read them, or put me on ignore. I'm not here to impress you...or anyone else. Like I said with Green and the Cards....I was posting here long, long before you ever showed up on the scene, and very possibly will be, long after you've departed. (Skkorp willing).
Who are you to tell me whether my posts are worthy of this forum or not?

Tangodnzr,

Its amazing how you took what I was saying as a personal "shot" at you. I never referred to you. I never used your name or limited my opinion to your takes. I was talking in general. I guess as the old saying goes...if the shoe fits....

As for personal insults, again I do not recall ever calling you out. I respect yours and alot of other peoples opinion even though I don't agree with them. My opinion is that before people post negatives about the coaches motives.. they may want to wait until the games count.

 

[Harpo]

Hey guys, take it easy on Tango, the guy lost Gilmore this week. He is in a fragile state of mind right now

 

[Russ Smith]

and...yes, I think Kolodziej is a BIG problem, if he's going to be annointed the starting DT on this team.

It's sucking down the effectiveness of other players, too.

Well FWIW the Raider announcers specifically commented on how they were opening gaping holes by running at Ross Kolodziej, they didn't mention Kenny King missing once that I recall, but they specifically mentioned the Cards had let Bell and Tanner go and they weren't impressed with Ross K.

Wendell Bryant got in late, first play was a screen he blew by his man, recognized the screen, and hustled back to get into the play. In that one play he showed more than Ross K did all night. Pace did the same thing on a run play, got tripped up in a pile, got back up and lunged to make the tackle.

Both guys showed effort, I really hope it's enough to get them some more PT. I'd feel a LOT better with Kolodziej on the bench, he makes Wakefield look like Reggie White.

 

[Russ Smith]

All I have to say is Kolodziej is being evaluated and time will tell if he will be on the team let alone starting. I would rather them experiment with him and Dockett at end rather than the same old status quo of letting the higher picks play since we have to "justify" picking them. Realize that as for Kolodziej he was out of football last year and he is hustling. So he may not have the talent, but it costs the team nothing to evaluate him. Dockett played his , second game as a DE in the NFL and did get a decent push. I saw potential. Of course he has a long way to go, but what would you expect?

.

Actually he was in football, on the 49er roster, buried and never playing, not even sure he was active, on a team that was desperate for DT help last year.

I'm not saying Green playing him this much means he really intends to start, but playing the guy that much is absolutely taking PT away from a guy like Bryant who HAS talent and by most accounts is putting forth the effort to get better we all questioned his first 2 years. the dangling carrot method only works if the player gets the carrot now and then, I don't see Bryant getting any carrot at all.

if it takes Green this long to recognize Ross can't cut it, I question that, what I think he's doing is using Ross to embarass others as a motivational tool, "I am so unhappy with you I'm playing this no talent guy in front of you". Again nothing wrong with challenging players, but for them to "step up" they have to be given a chance to play. I think Bryant got about 10 snaps last night.

 

[clif]

Actually he was in football, on the 49er roster, buried and never playing, not even sure he was active, on a team that was desperate for DT help last year.

I'm not saying Green playing him this much means he really intends to start, but playing the guy that much is absolutely taking PT away from a guy like Bryant who HAS talent and by most accounts is putting forth the effort to get better we all questioned his first 2 years. the dangling carrot method only works if the player gets the carrot now and then, I don't see Bryant getting any carrot at all.

if it takes Green this long to recognize Ross can't cut it, I question that, what I think he's doing is using Ross to embarass others as a motivational tool, "I am so unhappy with you I'm playing this no talent guy in front of you". Again nothing wrong with challenging players, but for them to "step up" they have to be given a chance to play. I think Bryant got about 10 snaps last night.

Again russ I hear ya and agree to a great deal. I personally have not seen much from Wendall Bryant, and I do not see any justification in him getting significant PT at this point. I am sure he will get more PT and that will come once the regular season starts.

I would argue though that they need to find others that can play because there is a good chance that Bryant will be gone because of his drunken driving incident. I think IMO..DG realizes this. The guy has not endeared himself to the organization and if I recall correctly he chose to work out in Wisconsin instead of here in the Valley with his teammates. That goes a long way in showing the coaching staff whether or not they can count on you.

 

[conraddobler]

Actually he was in football, on the 49er roster, buried and never playing, not even sure he was active, on a team that was desperate for DT help last year.

I'm not saying Green playing him this much means he really intends to start, but playing the guy that much is absolutely taking PT away from a guy like Bryant who HAS talent and by most accounts is putting forth the effort to get better we all questioned his first 2 years. the dangling carrot method only works if the player gets the carrot now and then, I don't see Bryant getting any carrot at all.

if it takes Green this long to recognize Ross can't cut it, I question that, what I think he's doing is using Ross to embarass others as a motivational tool, "I am so unhappy with you I'm playing this no talent guy in front of you". Again nothing wrong with challenging players, but for them to "step up" they have to be given a chance to play. I think Bryant got about 10 snaps last night.

DG always has a plan, he's already decided to either cut Bryant and Pace or not. Logically if he was going to he could have done this during the last round of cuts to really send a message.

My take is that he is just trying to scare the living tar out of them or he thinks they are complete busts.

Tune in next week to find out which it was.

 

[Russ Smith]

Again russ I hear ya and agree to a great deal. I personally have not seen much from Wendall Bryant, and I do not see any justification in him getting significant PT at this point. I am sure he will get more PT and that will come once the regular season starts.

I would argue though that they need to find others that can play because there is a good chance that Bryant will be gone because of his drunken driving incident. I think IMO..DG realizes this. The guy has not endeared himself to the organization and if I recall correctly he chose to work out in Wisconsin instead of here in the Valley with his teammates. That goes a long way in showing the coaching staff whether or not they can count on you.

Gone as in league suspension? I don't thnk it's a suspension for first time offender, unless it's not his first time, in which case that would be a VERY good reason to not play him.

 

[CaptTurbo]

LOL...how things do change.

A year ago, I was taking the same heat, from a lot of the same group of people for being too overly and constantly optomistic about this team.

Now many of those same people are on my case about my "negativity".

Who's the one's with exactly what agenda here?

Its hard to be wrong twice tango.

Yout hought Mac was the answer and Green is not and it turns out Mac was maybe the worst coach in NFL history and green is a top one.

Notice how u think backwards on this?

 

[clif]

Gone as in league suspension? I don't thnk it's a suspension for first time offender, unless it's not his first time, in which case that would be a VERY good reason to not play him.

i could be wrong, but it does not have to be a second offense to warrant at least a game suspension or maybe green sees his arrest as further evidence the guy does not have a passion for the game. If he did IMO he would have never put himself in that position.

 

[OmahaCardsFan]

I saw what Tango saw...

The game I watched (from Omaha), must have been the same game Tango watched. I tend to come away with some of the same interpretations.

I wasn't impressed with either DL or OL. That's not to say all lineman were horrible. It just means I saw no domination and they ran on us and we really for the most part did nothing running on them. I can't tell you how often we hit a stone wall and they ran through reynolds wrap.

This was the first time I saw them all year. I also saw Safeties and LB's overrun plays and DE's get sucked in.

It was day and night difference between our side of the trench and their side. I'd take both their lines over ours anyday. (Just based on the appearance of play from this game alone).

I'm not taking sides. But I can definately see what is meant between darksiders and kool-aiders. Wow. I'm neither. Just trying to be objective.

Tango, you are not far off. However, I do think Green is the long term answer.

-OCF

 

[spanky1]

i could be wrong, but it does not have to be a second offense to warrant at least a game suspension or maybe green sees his arrest as further evidence the guy does not have a passion for the game. If he did IMO he would have never put himself in that position.

clif,

You are wrong on this one. First offense is buried. Also, he was over the legal limit by a hair and in Wisconsin the legal limit is lower than it is in many states. We can't be using this as a reason why Bryant should be cut.

 

[red desert]

I think it's going to be a long year. But, I think it'll be worth it in the long run.
The days of losing 44-6 to Cleveland are done. The days of going 4-12 are still trying to hang on.

Other than that, I'm still waiting for the "coaching up" of both lines, especially Pace.

Good post, 11.

 

[CardinalChris]

I found exactly the opposite..... McCown and company played with emotion and heart. We have MUCH less talent than the Raiders. Our defense played spirited football despite being outmatched. Honestly, we are probably the second worse team in football talent wise. Yet we outplayed a better team. I see a seperation of those that want to and can from those that are content with a continuation of losing.

Green is nobody's friend. He's their boss. I don't care if there is no emotion between them. I saw the emotion from players on the field. They should respect and play for Green, not be his friend.

I think we improve our play this season but maintain last year's record.

And make no mistake.,.....Seattle is a very good team this year.

 

[Russ Smith]

i could be wrong, but it does not have to be a second offense to warrant at least a game suspension or maybe green sees his arrest as further evidence the guy does not have a passion for the game. If he did IMO he would have never put himself in that position.

This is the same Green who drafted Dimitrius Underwood in the first round, and then tried for a week to get ahold of him when underwood walked out of camp and holed up in a hotel room taking drugs.

I'm not advocating DUI and I don't think Green does either, but he's proven before if you can play, he'll ignore past mistakes. If he thought Bryant was going to be suspended for 4 games that would be different, he's not going to cut him because he thinks a DUI is wrong.

 

[slanidrac16]

can't we all just play nicely?

Guys, there are many reasons to feel good and just as many reasons to be concerned.
Things I agree with.
*No one REALLY knows for sure, but this team does appear to be coming together.
*McCown has come a long way in a very short time.
*Running back by commitee seems iminent.
*Kolodjinrrefke sucks, but I also believe there is some method to what appears to be madness.
*O-Line played well...but needs to play better.
* Any team that runs outside the tackles on us is just plain stupid. They can avg. 5 yds per carry up the middle just about every play.
* Macklin play is huge.
* Meet Adrian Wilson (and when you play us you will) a.k.a. The HIT MAN!
* Oh yes, Green is a good coach. Obviously there are a few who question that.

 

[JeffGollin]

My take may be a bit different.

- First of all we played better as a team than in the first 2 games, and actually seemed to know what we were doing some of the time (instead of looking like we were closing our eyes and winging it).

- But we were extremely lucky to wind up 6-3 at halftime. Oakland penalties sustained some of our drives and killed some of theirs. That plus McCown's scrambles (something you don't want to have to rely on all the time) saved our skins.

- McCown's TD drive was a thing of beauty (I thought Poole's TD should have counted).

- But two (correctable) things about the character of this team were disturbing:

(1) Lack of killer instinct. We had the Raiders 3rd & 11 deep in their own territory to start the 3Q and our soft coverage let them off the hook. They then ripped off 4 or 5 sizable gains, and we were fortunate to finally stop them at our own 43.

(2) It seemed to me that, once we were up 13 - 3 late in the 3Q, our first defensive, offensive and special teams units decided to (at least mentally) take the rest of the game off: Rackers shanks a kickoff, Leonard's "ole block" almost costs us our QB. Our defense stops putting pressure on the passer. Macklin first plays too soft and then gets beaten on a hitch & go when he tries to compensate by playing tight 2 plays later.

The game was ours, but at a critical point, the team "blinked" and Oakland scored twice in less than 2½ minutes.

I don't think Denny will let this team continue to (1) lack killer instinct or (2) play less than 60 minutes of intense football (mentally as well as physically).

- I also still feel that Davis and Kolodjziec can be run up the gut against and Hill will continued to be picked on whenever he has to be one of our starting QB's.

- Other than that, I think we did make marked improvement compared to the SD game, and this reflects the ability of this team to learn from its mistakes and get better and better. I don't know if we'll be where Denny expects this team to be by the start of the regular season, but I think we get to that point during the first quarter of the season.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Its hard to be wrong twice tango.

Yout hought Mac was the answer and Green is not and it turns out Mac was maybe the worst coach in NFL history and green is a top one.

Notice how u think backwards on this?

HUH????

I think you're stretching things here "a little".

Yes, I liked Mac. He was/is a charismatic person. And yes, I would have liked to see him succeed here.
Again, I think, so did a lot of other people too.

And, just like many others, by the end of the year last year, it had become quite evident that a change was needed. I was one of the first to agree with that. (other than the Mac bashers who'd been doing it all along).

I also to think to catagorize Mac as "maybe the worst coach in NFL history" is oviously an exaggeration of no little proportion.

And your claim that I'm "thinking backwards on this" cracks me up.
To me that's the kettle calling the pot black.

As the Zen Bhuddists might say:
Are one's thoughts really backwards, when accused of such by some one who may have a bass ackwards view themselves?

and finally:

Hey guys, take it easy on Tango, the guy lost Gilmore this week. He is in a fragile state of mind right now

What he said.

and...

would prefer you just keep your opinion to yourself so that we can avoid the condesending tone of "I told you so" that you invariably revert to.

...just wondering.....since I "invariably revert to the condesending 'I told you so'......doesn't that imply that I'm invariably right? Inquiring minds would like to know.