Raiders Game: First Impressions

[ATLCardsFan]

Clif, are you from Atlanta

Because there is a restuarant on Buford Highway near my house that my wife and I laugh at every time we drive past, called Phuket. It makes me laugh even when typing it.

I didn't see the cards game, however I don't put too much on the preseason games, but I'd like to see the cards put a competitve team on the field. I feel that if we open the season 1-4 or 2-5, we'll be thought of as the usually hapless Cards.

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

Tango,
Dennis Green has not coached a regular season game, and you are already on him. You also are putting down people who didn't give Mac a chance. Take a look at yourself.

You don't think that the player/coach relationship is a positive situation, but I was tired of watching Mac (great guy) defend players who didn't deserve it.

Go Green, and GO CARDS!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like the darksiders were so fond of saying again, and again, and again, last year. I'm not being negative...just realistic.

To date, anyway, Dennis Green has proven nothing.

"We'll See". however.

this is true, he's reporting his assessment. i can understand that. difference is, when we were being "realists" we weren't speaking with an admitted negative bias.

 

[seesred]

I have to say when Smith was in at tailback he was moving the ball with this line. No other RBs showed up last night. Especially Damian anderson. He looked terrible. Scooby at times looked better had one solid run for the score in the third. Fast enough to get outside with some good front blocking. He also had a 4 yard gain just prior to the TD. And yes at the time the Raiders 2 string guys were in. IMO Green will try to do something in three ares of concern if his eyes are still on playoffs.

#1..RB
#2. Corner
#3. D-line help.

GBR
40

 

[Duckjake]

I have to say when Smith was in at tailback he was moving the ball with this line. No other RBs showed up last night. Especially Damian anderson. He looked terrible. Scooby at times looked better had one solid run for the score in the third. Fast enough to get outside with some good front blocking. He also had a 4 yard gain just prior to the TD. And yes at the time the Raiders 2 string guys were in. IMO Green will try to do something in three ares of concern if his eyes are still on playoffs.

#1..RB
#2. Corner
#3. D-line help.

GBR
40

Sadly the same areas of concern the Cardinals have had for the past 3-4 years.

 

[JeffGollin]

Tango wrote - LOL...how things do change. A year ago, I was taking the same heat, from a lot of the same group of people for being too overly and constantly optomistic about this team.
Nothing mysterious Tango. Last year, you were loyal (to a fault) to Dave McGinnis & his program. This year, you're negative (to a fault) toward Denny because you're still upset that McGinnis got fired. Nothing inconsistent there.

I get the feeling that you feel that any kind of success by Denny would somehow make you look bad for supporting Coach Mac. (It shouldn't. It just would mean that, for sundry reasons, things didn't work out for Mac while they did for Denny).

Instead of jumping on Denny's back before the preseason is even over, why not wait til the end of regular season to compare regimes?

I say this having loved Coach Mac & his coaching personae and pulling hard for for him to succeed while he was here.

 

[clif]

Because there is a restuarant on Buford Highway near my house that my wife and I laugh at every time we drive past, called Phuket. It makes me laugh even when typing it.

I didn't see the cards game, however I don't put too much on the preseason games, but I'd like to see the cards put a competitve team on the field. I feel that if we open the season 1-4 or 2-5, we'll be thought of as the usually hapless Cards.

Nah but I have family in that area...I love that sign.. it says so many things on so many different levels...all in one word. I dont know if they people who named the restaurant really knew what they were doing when they named it PHUKET, but it works for me.

 

[Capital Card]

Since the Cards have been in the Valley, two coaches have been hired to run the team that I was not fond of. The first was Buddy and the second was Mac.

Based on Buddy's days in Philly, I thought he was an a-hole and I didn't want him as the "face" of the Cardinal orgainization. It was the closest I ever came to giving up on the team.

When coach Mac replaced Vince Tobin, I felt that is was a change just for the sake of change, rather than an upgrade of coaching talent or philosopy.

The main difference between the two was that while my feelings on Buddy were reinforced by many of his decisions and personality, I grew to respect Dave McGinnis, who may have actually loved the team more than me.

Now comes Denny Green with an all-star resume. I hope he can find success where all those before him failed. I stood firmly behind the team, even through the Buddy years and you can take this to the bank.... No matter how successful or not Dennis' tenure with the team is, I'm still going to be around long after he is gone. With each turn, I'm ever hopefull for some lasting success lies just around the corner.

Go Cards!!!

 

[Tangodnzr]

this is true, he's reporting his assessment. i can understand that. difference is, when we were being "realists" we weren't speaking with an admitted negative bias.

soooooo?????

That would imply,to me, that y'all were in denial.

I'm not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

soooooo?????

That would imply,to me, that y'all were in denial.

I'm not.

just to clear the air, i'm not disagreeing with you tango. i don't agree with you in regards to denny, but i also concede a lot of your points. i think everyone dismissing your points as pure green-hating is the koolaid-lovefest thing that i just can't stand. but, we weren't in denial about anything. to say that you're assuming we are biased against someone/thing surrounding the team. we are not. i don't hate the ownership, management, old coaches, or players the way you seem bent against denny. we just watched what unfolded and commented. it usually came out negatively b/c everything we saw was negative. seems to me though that you're anxiously anticipating green's failure and it makes you more likely to view everything through jaded eyes.

 

[clif]

just to clear the air, ..... seems to me though that you're anxiously anticipating green's failure and it makes you more likely to view everything through jaded eyes.

That is all I am saying. I dont profess to know any more than anyone else, but Tangodnzr, your opinion is a little fuzzy sometimes. the part that gets me ( not just you) is that people want to find reasons to not give DG credit. first and foremost.. my allegiance in to the CARDs and then to everyone else involved. I will criticize just like anyone else.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Tango wrote - LOL...how things do change. A year ago, I was taking the same heat, from a lot of the same group of people for being too overly and constantly optomistic about this team.
Nothing mysterious Tango. Last year, you were loyal (to a fault) to Dave McGinnis & his program. This year, you're negative (to a fault) toward Denny because you're still upset that McGinnis got fired. Nothing inconsistent there.

I get the feeling that you feel that any kind of success by Denny would somehow make you look bad for supporting Coach Mac. (It shouldn't. It just would mean that, for sundry reasons, things didn't work out for Mac while they did for Denny).

Instead of jumping on Denny's back before the preseason is even over, why not wait til the end of regular season to compare regimes?

I say this having loved Coach Mac & his coaching personae and pulling hard for for him to succeed while he was here.

Although there may be a "grain" of truth to some of what you say, I say my skepticism of Green is really not related to Mac and his firing at all.

I have NEVER been a Dennis Green fan. I can remember watching some games with all the sideline BS and BS going on with the team typified by the Moss, Carter, Reed problems that seemed to be tearing the team apart at one point.
I can remember Green just waddling around allowing it all to happen. He obviously always "played some favoritism", especially with Moss.
Now, that, in and of itself, I don't consider to be all that much of a negative, its just that my impression was, Green did it to an extreme.

Then last year when I started really researching his history, the picture developed by the man's history, started to emerge.

My first preference for the new coach, based on availability at the time, was Fassel. If there's any prejudice of the nature you spoke of with me, it would tend to be more the Fassel/Green comparison, certainly not Green/Mac.

At this point, anyway, I kind of look at Dennis Green's hiring much like I do about Dubya Bush getting elected. I thought he was a %$@)&^%% before elected, but after 9/11 I thought, maybe he won't be so bad after all, at least he's smart enough to have other intelligent people around him.
But then he blew it all away, and his prior history came back to contribute to his not living up to the opportunity he was given.

I was skeptical about Green. Once hired, and the first few moves he made, I said to myself..."well maybe his negative history IS something of the past, maybe he is as good as he promotes himself to be. (and he certainly does that).

but the started a run of moves that has since brought me more and more back to the skeptical side.

I think something Sect 11, said may really be true. :
It seems he didn't really do his homework all that much on the personnel that was here, and started making cuts more for media benefit and his image of a mover and shaker, rather than take the time to really evaluate some of the talent.
I think the cutting of Steve Bush may have been the first or those. Then Lucas, and Marcus Bell, Tanner, etc. ...on down the line.

The longer he's been here, to more it seems to me, his "sins of the past" are alive and well in the present.

THAT'S why I remain so skeptical at this point.

I haven't gone as far as Walter, yet, to say he should be fired immediately, but I'm not blindly just conceding he's done all that much to improve this team yet either.

Yes, I do like some of the assistant coaches. I have high hopes for Clancy Pendergast. Wylie, Woods, Krusyk, Pollard, all seem to have decent credentials, and it also seems obvious that Mac's overall preparation, coaching wise left a lot to be desired based on what we're seeing now.

Although I'm also highly disturbed about the reported injury scenario's related to Quan and Kenny King, in addition to everything else.

So yes, I admit to a prejudicial bias, but I also feel I have some legitimate reasons for those concerns.

As I once said before, awhile back.

The Green supporters first rally cry always seems to be: "Geen is great, check his history".

Well I say...OK, Fine. But there's two sides to that history deal. And that, some people seem to be ignoring.

 

[pete]

At this point, anyway, I kind of look at Dennis Green's hiring much like I do about Dubya Bush getting elected. I thought he was a %$@)&^%% before elected, but after 9/11 I thought, maybe he won't be so bad after all, at least he's smart enough to have other intelligent people around him.

Um, does this look like intelligence to you?

You must be registered for see images

 

[clif]

Although there may be a "grain" of truth to some of what you say, I say my skepticism of Green is really not related to Mac and his firing at all.

I have NEVER been a Dennis Green fan. I can remember watching some games with all the sideline BS and BS going on with the team typified by the Moss, Carter, Reed problems that seemed to be tearing the team apart at one point.
I can remember Green just waddling around allowing it all to happen. He obviously always "played some favoritism", especially with Moss.
Now, that, in and of itself, I don't consider to be all that much of a negative, its just that my impression was, Green did it to an extreme.

Then last year when I started really researching his history, the picture developed by the man's history, started to emerge.

My first preference for the new coach, based on availability at the time, was Fassel. If there's any prejudice of the nature you spoke of with me, it would tend to be more the Fassel/Green comparison, certainly not Green/Mac.

At this point, anyway, I kind of look at Dennis Green's hiring much like I do about Dubya Bush getting elected. I thought he was a %$@)&^%% before elected, but after 9/11 I thought, maybe he won't be so bad after all, at least he's smart enough to have other intelligent people around him.
But then he blew it all away, and his prior history came back to contribute to his not living up to the opportunity he was given.

I was skeptical about Green. Once hired, and the first few moves he made, I said to myself..."well maybe his negative history IS something of the past, maybe he is as good as he promotes himself to be. (and he certainly does that).

but the started a run of moves that has since brought me more and more back to the skeptical side.

I think something Sect 11, said may really be true. :
It seems he didn't really do his homework all that much on the personnel that was here, and started making cuts more for media benefit and his image of a mover and shaker, rather than take the time to really evaluate some of the talent.
I think the cutting of Steve Bush may have been the first or those. Then Lucas, and Marcus Bell, Tanner, etc. ...on down the line.

The longer he's been here, to more it seems to me, his "sins of the past" are alive and well in the present.

THAT'S why I remain so skeptical at this point.

I haven't gone as far as Walter, yet, to say he should be fired immediately, but I'm not blindly just conceding he's done all that much to improve this team yet either.

Yes, I do like some of the assistant coaches. I have high hopes for Clancy Pendergast. Wylie, Woods, Krusyk, Pollard, all seem to have decent credentials, and it also seems obvious that Mac's overall preparation, coaching wise left a lot to be desired based on what we're seeing now.

Although I'm also highly disturbed about the reported injury scenario's related to Quan and Kenny King, in addition to everything else.

So yes, I admit to a prejudicial bias, but I also feel I have some legitimate reasons for those concerns.

As I once said before, awhile back.

The Green supporters first rally cry always seems to be: "Geen is great, check his history".

Well I say...OK, Fine. But there's two sides to that history deal. And that, some people seem to be ignoring.

I dont think anyone is ignoring greens history (atleast not me) but most of the things that you and many others want to harp on is the players bickering back and forth on the sidelines of the NFC championship game. What I say to that is...what does that have to do with the AZ cards and the future? It is more likely than not that those mix of players, Moss and Carter to be exact, are some of the more vocal and better players in the game and would have argued at any point. I dont put much stock in players arguing. I am sure many other players argue everyday in practice and are not nearly as productive. It just happened to be when they were getting beat. You can blame that on DG or whatever, the fact is I think it was obvious no one had any answers to a team that was rolling to the superbowl. Would any yelling by DG have done any good at that point?

Winning cures all.

As for favoritism to Moss.. I say did it really make that much difference? Of course there should be no favoritism shown, but I really believe his performance outweighed all that. He was young and seems to have outgrown all that.

DG marital problems... are his problems and have no influence on the football field.

My issue is that when people look at the things DG is doing they immediately refer back to minn and some how draw conclusions that because things did not work out (superbowl) that they will not work out here.

I will concede that alot of people on the other side do seem to point to his history of winning as a way to forecast the future..but isn't that what we do with any coach?

Dont get me wrong I am not a DG supporter so much as an Arizona Cardinal fan. It just so happens that they go hand in hand at this point.

I was excited when they hired Mac just for the sake of something new. A new day. It became apparent though after watching alot of the games his team played and the reasoning he gave when they lost that he had to go. He was not going to be the one to lead them to the playoffs.

Fassel. I would have like to have seen fassel coach here, but it also became apparent that he was burnt out and needed time away from being the head man and that is evidenced by the fact that no team hired him to be the head guy this year. He really did not seem interested when he came in for the interview if i judge correctly from the press conference that was held.

All in all, again DG deserves our support because he is leading the team we all want to see succeed. If that means a few players getting cut that were marginal at best, (bell tanner and the rest of the stiffs) being cut, and players that were more vocal than productive (kendall) .. I say let it roll. I am tired of the loser mindset. I am tired of watching boring football. I am tired of the jokes, the ridicule that being a cardinal fan has brought me. I want winning football. I want competitive football. I want a winner in town. say what you want about DG the person, the motivator, the evaluator, the coach. You cannot argue with winning and he sure as hell got alot of that to offer.