Rams 31 Cardinals 17 Post Game Thoughts

[artp]

Does anyone still think QB J Skelton is the answer? Does anyone still think he can ever take the Cardinals to the Playoffs? In my opinion, Skelton is done.
Its an audition for QB R Lindley.

 

[PJ1]

Yes there were drops in that game but I think the "official" count went from 5 to 7 in a day on this board. And at least 3 of those 7 were bad throws where the WR made a nice effort to get hands on the ball but didn't catch it.

Drops happen in every NFL game I watch. After about 600 NFL throws I think we can safely conclude Skelton's problem is not passes being dropped.

Point is he didn't have a bad game vs Green Bay which is what I was responding to. I obviously wasn't talking about his entire career. The Doucet drops alone in that game were horrible and killed drives if I remember correctly.

I really thought Skelton would do ok vs Atlanta but just wasn't the case. Still would have left him in though.

He isn't now and never will be the answer but Lindley will be detroyed due to the fact he shouldn't be playing right now. Horrible situation.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Bickley repeated multiple times today that Whis is the only one responsible for each of the QB selections. His words: Every quarterback since Warner was "handpicked" by Whisenhunt.

Well a part of that is revisionist history by Bickley. His own radio partner once said once upon a time that Whiz wanted Bulger not Derek Anderson and Leinart certainly wasn't Whisenhunt's choice. In fact some close to the team suggested he wanted Leinart gone years before. Max Hall's mere existence on the roster was only the result of those two idiots.

But yeah Kolb is 100% on him. Even Skelton and Lindley give him somewhat of a free pass considering where they got taken in the draft. It's almost impossible to find good QB's that late.

 

[Osbern61]

Nice write up, Mitch.
I had to look for Wilson to see if he was playing also.

 

[Duckjake]

Yes there were drops in that game but I think the "official" count went from 5 to 7 in a day on this board. And at least 3 of those 7 were bad throws where the WR made a nice effort to get hands on the ball but didn't catch it.

Drops happen in every NFL game I watch. After about 600 NFL throws I think we can safely conclude Skelton's problem is not passes being dropped.

The official count went to 7 because Ken Whisenhunt said there were 7.

 

[kerouac9]

Well a part of that is revisionist history by Bickley. His own radio partner once said once upon a time that Whiz wanted Bulger not Derek Anderson and Leinart certainly wasn't Whisenhunt's choice. In fact some close to the team suggested he wanted Leinart gone years before. Max Hall's mere existence on the roster was only the result of those two idiots.

But yeah Kolb is 100% on him. Even Skelton and Lindley give him somewhat of a free pass considering where they got taken in the draft. It's almost impossible to find good QB's that late.

I think the deal on Bulger is that the Cards signed Anderson (with Whis's okay), and then when Bulger came on the market a month later, Whis wanted Bulger, too. The front office said no to that. Although, at this point, it's difficult to imagine that Marc Bulger was the only thing standing between the 2010 Arizona Cardinals and a third consecutive NFC West Championship.

It was MJ who was saying that each QB since Warner (Leinart never started for the Cards after Warner) was hand-picked by Whis. None of those guys were forced on him.

 

[john h]

I was impressed that for the first time this year winning the coin toss and deferring actually worked to perfection to start the game. The defense bended a little but got a stop and Ryan Lindley came out crisp and led the team to what seems like its first opening series TD on offense since who knows when.

The one caveat here is that the opening TD drive was aided and abetted by a timely unnecessary roughing call on the Rams that nullified Adam Snyder's piling on gaffe.

Clearly, the coaches were doing what Kurt Warner had insisted---get the QB into a rhythm as soon as possible.

Lindley looked sharp as in one to three BAM, one two three BAM, one two three BAM.

All good---for then.

But you just knew Jeff Fisher and the Rams weren't going to allow that to continue, especially from a rookie.

You just knew that they were going to start jumping the short routes.

Problem is it didn't seem the Cardinal coaches did---because just when they had perfectly set the Rams up for double moves, the Cardinals went to the well one time too many as Janoris Jenkins jumped Hyphen's out route and took it to the house.

The issue with the one two three BAM plays as well is how predictable the play calling has been----so predictable in fact that the coaches and Lindley made it way too easy for the Rams to counter.

Neither the coaches, nor the rookie QB had a counter to their counter.

At halftime---it was very interesting to hear what the sideline reporter said about what the coaches told her---

Fisher was stating that he was impressed with Lindley's play and how he was "spreading the ball around"---and that now it was time to increase the pressure on him to see if he could handle it.

Whisenhunt offered praise for Lindley too, but was stressing with his young QB the plays he missed---

For right or for wrong---when I heard both of those statements I thought it was going to be a long second half because the Rams were going to come after Lindley and now, based on the locker room focus of the missed plays the young QB was likely to become tentative in fear of making another egregious mistake---or even worse, missing a wide open Fitzgerald which may have prompted Whisenhunt to try Early Doucet at QB.

Lord knows there was only one way in which John Skelton was ever going to get a chance again---that is if Lindley was to get hurt.

It doesn't matter that the one thing Skelton has shown a somewhat consistent propensity to do and that is lead 4th quarter comebacks out of the hurry-up---as was the case last week when it was clear that Lindley was in over his head as rookies who have never taken a snap in a game are---Skelton was not going to be called on under any circumstances other than injury.

Essentially John Skelton has been cut.

He is the latest Arizona Cardinal QB pariah.

And this raises a troubling pattern of sorts:

Matt Leinart spent three years in Whisenhunt's offense and even was the beneficiary of working along side a HOF QB---

Leinart was named the starter on numerous occasions---and yet when it clearly his time to start---he was cut before he even had a chance.

Now after three years it's Skelton's turn.

The only difference is that Whisenhunt drafted Skelton---and the Cardinals were so interested in him that they (including the Bidwills) dined with Skelton in NYC prior to the draft.

Going back to Leinart---the strange thing about his transition into Whisenhunt's offense, if you recall, was that Whisenhunt proclaimed at the start of his first season that Leinart was slow to pick up the system and therefore hadn't even been taught the hurry-up offense, which is why Warner was the designated hurry-up QB.

Now I ask you---with all the rookies that have started at QB over the past three years, and with a modicum of success no less---even in the strike-shortened season---why were those QBs well enough prepared to learn the offense and Matt Leinart, a Heisman Trophy winner wasn't?

We saw what Leinart was capable of as a pro---under the big lights, no less. He played virtually a flawless game against the "they were what we thought they were" undefeated Bears. If you recall, even when the Cardinals somehow managed to squander the big lead due to Edge's fumble and Hester's punt return TD---Leinart led the offense right into decent FG position to win the game. Alas, Neil Rackers missed the 42 yarder.

We have seen Skelton at his best as he was at home last year in relief of an injured Kolb versus the then practically unbeatable 49ers, when he was throwing strikes downfield and leading the Cardinals to a stunning upset win.

Skelton actually beat the Rams, 49ers and Seahawks in the second half of last season.

We saw earlier this season what Kevin Kolb can do when he is focused and determined---as in win 4 games in a row, even when it wasn't always pretty.

Guess what?---in football it usually isn't pretty----

We have now seen what a focused Ryan Lindley can do for 30 minutes of football. He's got the arm for sure---and he has the spunk.

The question is---why do these young QBs look like they are more parts to the problem than the solution?

What's the common denominator?

What do they all do wrong?

1. They stare down the first option.
2. They throw repeatedly short of the sticks on third down conversions.
3. They sail the ball high under pressure.
4. They throw off their back foot even when they don't have to.
5. They seem out of sync with the WRs and TEs in not knowing when and where their breaks are at times---often at key times, as Lindley did yesterday with Fitz on several occasions.
6. They throw bad interceptions even following their best drives because they go to the well and repeat mistakes 1-5 far too often.

This is why it actually would be prudent to see what we really have in Kolb, Skelton and Lindley when they are being coached by a new set of coaches in a system and under play-callers who know how to cater the offense to their strengths....and better yet, coaches who understand the psychology of what it takes to be a successful QB and how critical it is to the team's success for the QB to feel confident in himself, the system and his teammates.

Personnel Notes:

1. To think that TEs Todd Heap and Jim Dray have contributed virtually nothing all year taking up roster spots when the Cardinals could have a QB like David Garrard on the roster to throw into the mix.

How could it be that as QB starved as the Cardinals are---that they keep more TEs than QBs with one QB injured for a prolonged time, to boot.

That and how about another offensive tackle?

2. Speaking of TEs---good to see Rob Housler getting the bulk of the work---he had his best game production-wise this week and not just as a receiver but he made several good plays as a blocker. Go Dems!

3. Nate Potter---looks like he's corrected the swinging gate drop-step problem he had the last couple of weeks---his setup was nice and square this week, and, as a result, how often was DE Robert Quinn's name called this week?

4. Hyphen---made no sense to send him in for the middle of the line dive play that hasn't worked with him for three weeks.

5. William Powell---love this kid! Why the coaches haven't been using him more is mind-boggling.

6. Beanie looked fresh but had Fred Flintstone in the car feet. Nice run on the TD, however---in that case he kept his feet nicely under him.

7. Offensive line---best game in a while.

8. LaRon Byrd---great to see him out there---too bad he got such a rough initiation. Hope he bounces back.

9. Fitz---he doesn't look in sync with himself right now, let alone with a QB---there's something wrong with him, perhaps lingering concussion worries?

10. Roberts---has got to be throw to deep at least two to three times a game.

11. Dockett---playing better.

12. Williams---came on in second half.

13. Carter---was explosive at times.

14. Groves---same off the edge---great strip play.

15. Acho---had the one real bad play on Jackson that went for 29 yards---but was solid otherwise, especially staying home and getting after Bradford.

16. Washington---best player on the field yesterday for the Cardinals.

17. Bethel---his coverage on Givens was textbook---he was right there has turned for the ball just as you want and just narrowly missed the deflection---I saw this as a positive. Givens the last time blew by William Gay. Just not sure why Horton wanted to press Givens with his speed in that situation---and of course, there was no safety help over the top. (Add too Bethel's ST play was excellent).

18. Peterson---maybe his best game all-around this season. Tremendous interception----good tackles and punt returns.

19. Rhodes---drives you crazy, doesn't he? His futile and lame effort to tackle TE Lance Kendricks on the 29 yard TD pass over the middle by going high on Kendrick's 6'5" frame instead of firing through his legs was akin to Wilson's shoulder whiff versus Randall Cobb (Packers). Rhodes made a couple nice plays later---but mostly when he was near the box.

20. Wilson---did anyone know he even played?

21. Adams---nice coverage for a change.

Mith: I do not disagree with much that you have said but what do we do now? Most of our problem start at the top meaning ownership and management. The owners are not going to change so in a perfect world what should the owners do?

1. Fire Graves.
2. Fire all the coaches except Horton and his assistants. He may be a possibility for our HC position after the season ends.
3. Trade Fitz for the best player you can get at a position of need. You might even consider trading him for a high draft picks. He is still an all pro on the right team and we are a few years away from benefiting from his immense talents as we have no QB.
4. Give the GM full GM responsibilities and find the best one you can who knows football and can evaluate talent. Let him be the final decision maker on who we draft otherwise how do we know how good he is doing.
5. Spend most of your CAP money each year and do not hold back.
6. If you have a real good player try and lock him up for some years to come. Do not wait until he is near the end of his contract and ready to go into free agency.
7. Do not be afraid to make trades that will improve our team.
8. Have enough RBs of good ability so that you can have fresh legs in the game most of the time. Have at least one big RB and one elusive one.
9. Have a head coach who can think outside the box and be innovative. Consider a college coach in the search for a Head Coach. Consider a no huddle offense more often than not. Sometimes the big names coaches are really just big names.

This would be where I would start. Will our owner be willing to do these things? It will take several years more than likely even if we draft well. We are in need of a new philosophy at least. We are pulling in the money with a full stadium for every game. The owners should be making good money and be able to afford the players we need so keep your good guys and sign the to extensions early. We are a very vanilla team who operate in a very vanilla fashion. This needs to change. Be more open to the fans and recognize to them that you understand our needs and faults and what you intend to do about it. Stop being so secretive. We can all see and we are left wondering what you know or do not know. Tell us why Kolb was a good deal when you made the deal. If Graves is the guy who makes a deal like Kolb then have him step before a press conference and explain why he made the deal. We seem to try and solve one problem at a time and it may be a problem that is not that important. We are all left wondering who is in charge around here.

 

[Big Deal]

Well a part of that is revisionist history by Bickley. His own radio partner once said once upon a time that Whiz wanted Bulger not Derek Anderson and Leinart certainly wasn't Whisenhunt's choice. In fact some close to the team suggested he wanted Leinart gone years before. Max Hall's mere existence on the roster was only the result of those two idiots.

But yeah Kolb is 100% on him. Even Skelton and Lindley give him somewhat of a free pass considering where they got taken in the draft. It's almost impossible to find good QB's that late.

Bulger wouldn't have done anything either, besides, he chose to retire the next year instead of signing with us anyway. Also, don't forget about Charlie Whitehurst. Whiz handpicked him as well but he handpicked Seattle instead.

 

[cardpa]

Think about all the QBs Whiz has either shown a great interest in or has gotten on the team.

Charlie Whitehurst
Derek Anderson
Max Hall
Marc Bulger
John Skelton
Kevin Kolb

This clearly shows that Whiz has absolutely no concept on evaluating talent at the position. I would love to hear from Whiz exactly what it is he sees or saw in any of these guys that would make him think they could carry this team on offense.

 

[mrbyte]

Think about all the QBs Whiz has either shown a great interest in or has gotten on the team.

Charlie Whitehurst
Derek Anderson
Max Hall
Marc Bulger
John Skelton
Kevin Kolb

This clearly shows that Whiz has absolutely no concept on evaluating talent at the position. I would love to hear from Whiz exactly what it is he sees or saw in any of these guys that would make him think they could carry this team on offense.

Was it Whis or was it Graves that wanted these guys?

 

[az jam]

Was it Whis or was it Graves that wanted these guys?

Good question. I think that Whiz has a lot of input on personnel decisions which was included in his contract extension in 2010. However, IMO Graves is a joke and should get fired. He is not a strong GM. He is more of an administrator than a football person. He should have gotten the axe when Denny Green was let go instead he was promoted and given a new contract. Makes no sense.