Rams are LEGIT....................but

[Cheesebeef]

Other than Sam Bradford and Roger Saffold (and possibly Lance Hendricks), what good young players do they have on offense? I thought so...

boy do i think you completely underrate their Oline, all of which is still really young save Dahl who's only 30. Have a good O-line and QB and everything else is interchangeable parts. Besides the fact that they have Jackson who's only 28, Norwood who's a solid back-up and a bunch of different types of WRs. They're one legit WR away from probably being dominant on offense for years to come.

That O IS built for the long-term and it's built from within, where good offenses need to be.

On defense, they do have Long and Laurinitis, but what else?

two great young building blocks, plus their first round draft pick this year. Looks like about what we have as building blocks and they're already proven to be a better unit.

All the rest of the team is 30+. They didn't exactly build for the longterm and if they surprise anyone in the next year or two and make a playoff run, they will be forced to rebuild once all those older players they've brought in hit the wall.

That's what happens when you rely on the Chike Okeafors, Bert Berrys, Mike Gandys of the world. All of a sudden, your team is old and you have no one behind them to step in and start.

Also, who are their WRs? Mike Sims-Walker? Puhleaze. After Sims-Walker, the rest of their WR corps wouldn't even be #3 WRs on the Cardinals.

The Rams sold out their future to win now, and they won't win big. They would have been better off taking the approach that the Seahawks took in signing only young players and building for the next few years.

lol. I hope you're right but I fear you're dead wrong here.

 

[Krangodnzr]

1)To call them old is going out on a limb!!! Quinn was added to an already solid front 4 & has played pretty well in preseason, the have young talent thats only going to get better IMO

Quinn is unproven, and Hall and Robbins are both 34. That means outside of Quinn (unproven) and Long, they don't have a lot of good young talent.

2)The WR corp is young, talented & unproven...and the added Walker to the mix. Avery, Gilyard, Amendola & rooks Salas & Pettis can play in this league...IMO they aren't quite the terrible unit you think they are

Prove it. Outside of Amendola (who had around 680 yards on like 80 catches, wow that's an impact player!) and Sims-Walker, none of those guys have done **** in the NFL. According to camp reports Gilyard has been terrible and is unlikely to make the roster. Same with Avery, he's never been the same after multiple injuries.

Mike Sims-Walker is a castoff from the Jaguars. Obviously there is something wrong with him if they didn't even attempt to resign him and he received virtually no interest from any other team but the Rams.

I just thing some people (you included) are quick to talk about how unproven players are on the Cardinals but will on the other hand, talk up unproven players on other teams.

3)The Rams Dline will be just as good or better than ours IMO. Spags teams play tough, disciplined defensive football, something the Cards haven't done in ages!!!

Tough and disciplined? IF being a bottom 12 defense is tough and disciplined, then I would agree.

4) I would trade our Oline for the Rams right now!!!

Steven Jackson average 3.8 yards per carry behind that 'vaunted' o-line.

5) It all comes down to Bradford & he's got star written all over him. If you have a franschise QB, you have a chance!!!

What's with all the exclamation marks!!!??? LOL. Bradford is a good QB, but again, prove it.

6)Oh BTW they have this RB named Steven Jackson...you should watch him he's ok
I respect the Lambs & they way they've built a team pretty quickly[/QUOTE]

And Steven Jackson is nearing the end of his career, and the Rams have no young alternative on the roster. All they have is two injury prone players to back him up.

Not impressed.

 

[Krangodnzr]

boy do i think you completely underrate their Oline, all of which is still really young save Dahl who's only 30. Have a good O-line and QB and everything else is interchangeable parts. Besides the fact that they have Jackson who's only 28, Norwood who's a solid back-up and a bunch of different types of WRs. They're one legit WR away from probably being dominant on offense for years to come.

Their o-line is ok; it's not elite, it has some young talent on it, but it's a far cry from a great offensive line.

28 in RB years, is 33 for other positions. Jackson has a lot of tread missing on his tires. And he averaged 3.8 yards per carry last year...not very good. The Rams running game averaged around 98 yards per game, very Cardinal-like if you ask me.

One elite WR? That's not an easy fix. They only have two proven receivers on the roster, and neither are very good. All the rest are completely unproven.

That O IS built for the long-term and it's built from within, where good offenses need to be.

If Kolb works out then I don't see how we're not built for the long term. All we need on the o line is a LT and we're ready to rock & roll. Our receivers are better than theirs, our TEs are better theirs, and we have more young depth (if Ryan Williams comes back strong) at RB than they do.

two great young building blocks, plus their first round draft pick this year. Looks like about what we have as building blocks and they're already proven to be a better unit.

Proven over one abysmal season Quarterbacked by monumentally bad Derrick Anderson that they are better than us. They won 7 games last year, hardly the benchmark of a good team.

lol. I hope you're right but I fear you're dead wrong here.

I just don't see the hype:

QB Sam Bradford: Good young player, but he needs more weapons.

Steven Jackson: A good player, nearing the end of a very good career. Look at the number of carries he's gotten. Few RBs last after that kind of use and abuse. And the Rams have has beens behind him; they didn't even try and develop young depth. They aren't built for the long haul.

WR: Looking at the Rams receiving options last year was like looking at the 2002 Arizona Cardinals WR depth chart. All the had was Danny Amendola, who is a famine inflicted man's version of Wes Welker. He's shades better than Max Komar. Mike Sims-Walker must have some communicable disease, because the Jacksonville Jaguars treated him as such after previously touting him as a #1 WR. And after those two? Two rookies who haven't proven jack.

OL: Saffold was solid for a rookie last year. Just like Levi Brown once was. The question is, can he take the next step? The rest of their line is solid, yet unspectacular. It's not like they have the Jets OLine or the Carolina Panthers (very underrated, talented) OLine.

DL: Looks pretty good, but Hall and Robbins are 34, to major contributors from last season. Quinn is a great prospect, but outside of him and Long, they don't have a whole lot of quality depth.

LB: Laurinitis and journeymen. Nothing great here

DB: Bartel and Mickell (who I've heard is a systems player from scouts) and journeymen. Nothing great here either.

 

[Buckybird]

Quinn is unproven, and Hall and Robbins are both 34. That means outside of Quinn (unproven) and Long, they don't have a lot of good young talent.



Prove it. Outside of Amendola (who had around 680 yards on like 80 catches, wow that's an impact player!) and Sims-Walker, none of those guys have done **** in the NFL. According to camp reports Gilyard has been terrible and is unlikely to make the roster. Same with Avery, he's never been the same after multiple injuries.

Mike Sims-Walker is a castoff from the Jaguars. Obviously there is something wrong with him if they didn't even attempt to resign him and he received virtually no interest from any other team but the Rams.

I just thing some people (you included) are quick to talk about how unproven players are on the Cardinals but will on the other hand, talk up unproven players on other teams.



Tough and disciplined? IF being a bottom 12 defense is tough and disciplined, then I would agree.



Steven Jackson average 3.8 yards per carry behind that 'vaunted' o-line.



What's with all the exclamation marks!!!??? LOL. Bradford is a good QB, but again, prove it.

6)Oh BTW they have this RB named Steven Jackson...you should watch him he's ok
I respect the Lambs & they way they've built a team pretty quickly

And Steven Jackson is nearing the end of his career, and the Rams have no young alternative on the roster. All they have is two injury prone players to back him up.

Not impressed.[/QUOTE]

1) I did say the Rams Wrs were talented & unproven

2) Sure Quinn is unproven, but so is Schohawk. Both are talented & IMO the Lambs have a better set of edge rushers today than we do.

3) Spags has always coached pretty good aggressive D's. Is our D today better than theirs? Didnt we finish almost last in nearly every defensive category?

4) Yeah Jackson sucks, his 1,200 yds says so. Whens the last time our RB ran for that many yds?

5) You really can't be serious that you think our Oline is better than theirs. Our lack of running game & refusal to try to run tells me all I need to know.

Both of these teams are improved & if Kolb is a player, we've got a shot...if not we're in trouble.

 

[Renz]

Yeah, let's crown 'em.

 

[Shane]

I would say that so far against TH e chargers #1s we look pretty legit... Chargers are considered one of bestbteams in AFC still.

 

[Buckybird]

I would say that so far against TH e chargers #1s we look pretty legit... Chargers are considered one of bestbteams in AFC still.

I thought you couldn't judge on how good/bad a team could be in preseason?

 

[Shane]

I thought you couldn't judge on how good/bad a team could be in preseason?

You can't. Just trying to make you guys feel better.

 

[Buckybird]

You can't. Just trying to make you guys feel better.

Lol

ur nuts Shane but I luv the optimism...we'll probably go 4-12

 

[Shane]

Lol

ur nuts Shane but I luv the optimism...we'll probably go 4-12

 

[Krangodnzr]

1) I did say the Rams Wrs were talented & unproven

No more talented than anyone elses scrubs; they have one legit starting NFL WR, Sims-Walker, and his team last year didn't even want him back.

Yep the Rams receivers are AWESOME!!!!!!! They put our receivers to shame!!!!!!! Crown the Rams!

2) Sure Quinn is unproven, but so is Schohawk. Both are talented & IMO the Lambs have a better set of edge rushers today than we do.

Never said Schohawk was proven, but I'm not going to crown his ass before he's done anything either. Crown the Rams! Super Bowl!!!!!!!

3) Spags has always coached pretty good aggressive D's. Is our D today better than theirs? Didnt we finish almost last in nearly every defensive category?

Not saying our defense is any good, I just said theirs sucked last year. And they brought in scrubs like Ben Leber and Brady Poppinga and WHAM!!!! AWESOMENESS!!!! CROWN THE RAMS!!!

4) Yeah Jackson sucks, his 1,200 yds says so. Whens the last time our RB ran for that many yds?

Never said that either (see the theme here? You put words in my mouth, weaksauce debate style) just said that he's slowing down. And their offensive line that is total awesomeness according to you and Cheese"Ramserawesomeness"Beef, is pretty overrated if their amazing back only averages a palty 3.8 yards a carry.

5) You really can't be serious that you think our Oline is better than theirs. Our lack of running game & refusal to try to run tells me all I need to know.

SCHISE! I didn't say that either! I just pointed out that their oline is overrated.

Both of these teams are improved & if Kolb is a player, we've got a shot...if not we're in trouble.

Crown them! Amazing wideouts! Best O Line eva'! Bradford to the Hall of Fame!

 

[mojorizen7]

Krang,you dont have much of a pulse on whats going on in St Louis.

LB: Laurinitis and journeymen. Nothing great here

This is the only one of your observations where you hit it square on the mark. That and the secondary lacks depth.

 

[Shane]

Krang,you dont have much of a pulse on whats going on in St Louis.


This is the only one of your observations where you hit it square on the mark. That and the secondary lacks depth.

You are a homer for your team. Hard to look at them with any objectivity wouldn't you say?

 

[Longcolts]

You are a homer for your team. Hard to look at them with any objectivity wouldn't you say?

Nah, you and I know that we suck and we should crown their...Ok, where did I put that sarcasm button?

 

[mojorizen7]

You are a homer for your team. Hard to look at them with any objectivity wouldn't you say?

ANY objectivity? Certainly not. I know exactly where the weaknesses are on my team...just like i assume you do on the Cards roster.
If i'm a homer then that makes two of us no?

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are a homer for your team. Hard to look at them with any objectivity wouldn't you say?

I try to be objective when I talk with others about the Cardinals. Maybe I don't fully succeed but I think my familiarity with the Cards along with my attempted objectivity gets me a lot closer to accurate than a fan from the Rams gets (for example). I think Mojo is reasonably objective when he talks about his favorite team. I think he's often wrong but that's not bias, it's lunacy. Big difference.

Steve

 

[Shane]

ANY objectivity? Certainly not. I know exactly where the weaknesses are on my team...just like i assume you do on the Cards roster.
If i'm a homer then that makes two of us no?

You may have an idea where your weaknesses lie. But as a fan especially ones buying into the hype you will generally over rate what you have. Its common and normal.

After last season and our team I'm not buying into anything until I see it on the field during the regular season.

 

[mojorizen7]

You may have an idea where your weaknesses lie. But as a fan especially ones buying into the hype you will generally over rate what you have. Its common and normal.

After last season and our team I'm not buying into anything until I see it on the field during the regular season.

Fair enough...except the only thing i'm "buying" into here is that they're building a good football team in St Louis. A team built for the long haul...not to win now and be crappy in a couple years.

In the grand scheme of things(meaning the league as a whole) the Rams are still a year or two away IMO. However as far as the division goes i dont think it takes a whole lot of objectivity to recognize that we'll be there.

FWIW our OLine may be slightly overrated by fans outside St Louis. That will be key for us.

Good luck to you and your Cards this season Shane.....it will be an interesting season in the West.

 

[mojorizen7]

I try to be objective when I talk with others about the Cardinals. Maybe I don't fully succeed but I think my familiarity with the Cards along with my attempted objectivity gets me a lot closer to accurate than a fan from the Rams gets (for example). I think Mojo is reasonably objective when he talks about his favorite team. I think he's often wrong but that's not bias, it's lunacy. Big difference.

Steve

Thanks Steve....i think.

 

[Shane]

Fair enough...except the only thing i'm "buying" into here is that they're building a good football team in St Louis. A team built for the long haul...not to win now and be crappy in a couple years.

In the grand scheme of things(meaning the league as a whole) the Rams are still a year or two away IMO. However as far as the division goes i dont think it takes a whole lot of objectivity to recognize that we'll be there.

FWIW our OLine may be slightly overrated by fans outside St Louis. That will be key for us.

Good luck to you and your Cards this season Shane.....it will be an interesting season in the West.

back at ya friend!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Krang,you dont have much of a pulse on whats going on in St Louis.

OR I'm not buying the hype. IMO too much of the 'excitement' is over a ragtag group of receivers. As a Cardinals fan, I've see numerous instances of guys looking like All Pros in the preseason, never doing anything in the NFL.

Mike Sims-Walker is Ok, but not a feature receiver in the league. The Jaguars proved that.

Danny Amendola is a 3-4th WR. Wes Welker on Slim Fast. Can play in the NFL, but isn't a great player by any stretch.

Salas and Pettis are unproven. How often do 3rd and 4th picks excel as rookies? Not very often, and usually not in their first year. Quite a bit of the excitement stems from unproven rookie receivers (including Hendricks).

Hendricks should be good, but few good TEs are gamebreakers. That's what I don't see in this list, any gamebreakers. Every good passing game in the league has that go-to, crunch time player, and the Rams lack that.

You agreed with me that the Rams O-Line is overrated by fans outside of St. Louis. Some talent there (especially Saffold, but he still has some improving to do) but it's not a great offensive line.

Bradford will be good, but I question the weapons. I also question how much longer Steven Jackson is going to hold up. I don't think he has too many more seasons, and he's pretty much the only real offensive weapon on the roster.

This is the only one of your observations where you hit it square on the mark. That and the secondary lacks depth.

Fred Robbins and James Hall are near the end, both 34. And both were HUGE components of the Rams middle of the pack defense. If either take a step back, then the defense likely does too. Quinn was on of my favorite players in the draft, but he's a HUGE risk. If Quinn doesn't develop, the defense doesn't look very good longterm. Good young players on the defense? Long, Lauranitis, and Bartel. Outside of those 3 it's journeymen and older guys.

That also leads me to my next point: If the Rams are good this year, then they will likely not be next year because the team is relying on so many players in their thirties this year. Many of those guys are going to decline and or be off the roster. Where are the young replacements? Not a whole lot of good, young depth on the roster. This is what happened to the Cardinals last year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese"Ramserawesomeness"Beef

jesus dude... you're like arguing with a seven year old. Someone dares to question your opinion and your response is railing back with sarcasm, hyperbole and name calling. good form Krang.

 

[Cheesebeef]

lol... yeah right shane.

 

[Wild Cats]

Don't need big named WRs to have a top passing offense.

See what Josh McDaniels did in Denver with that rag tag group. A top 10 passing team. And one without a threat like Steven Jackson in the backfield to keep teams honest.

 

[mojorizen7]

OR I'm not buying the hype. IMO too much of the 'excitement' is over a ragtag group of receivers. As a Cardinals fan, I've see numerous instances of guys looking like All Pros in the preseason, never doing anything in the NFL.

Mike Sims-Walker is Ok, but not a feature receiver in the league. The Jaguars proved that.

Danny Amendola is a 3-4th WR. Wes Welker on Slim Fast. Can play in the NFL, but isn't a great player by any stretch.

Salas and Pettis are unproven. How often do 3rd and 4th picks excel as rookies? Not very often, and usually not in their first year. Quite a bit of the excitement stems from unproven rookie receivers (including Hendricks).

Hendricks should be good, but few good TEs are gamebreakers. That's what I don't see in this list, any gamebreakers. Every good passing game in the league has that go-to, crunch time player, and the Rams lack that.

You agreed with me that the Rams O-Line is overrated by fans outside of St. Louis. Some talent there (especially Saffold, but he still has some improving to do) but it's not a great offensive line.

Bradford will be good, but I question the weapons. I also question how much longer Steven Jackson is going to hold up. I don't think he has too many more seasons, and he's pretty much the only real offensive weapon on the roster.




Fred Robbins and James Hall are near the end, both 34. And both were HUGE components of the Rams middle of the pack defense. If either take a step back, then the defense likely does too. Quinn was on of my favorite players in the draft, but he's a HUGE risk. If Quinn doesn't develop, the defense doesn't look very good longterm. Good young players on the defense? Long, Lauranitis, and Bartel. Outside of those 3 it's journeymen and older guys.

That also leads me to my next point: If the Rams are good this year, then they will likely not be next year because the team is relying on so many players in their thirties this year. Many of those guys are going to decline and or be off the roster. Where are the young replacements? Not a whole lot of good, young depth on the roster. This is what happened to the Cardinals last year.

Mods....maybe we should merge this thread over to the Rams thread in the Smack shack. I hate to keep bumping this up in here...but i've got to respond to the Krang again

Yes, the WR's are average at best. A bunch of #2's and half of them have a history of injuries(D.Avery,D.Alexander,Sims-Walker). Avery and Alexander are the only 2 guys who can get deep but it's not a lock that either guy makes the team because those injuries have already saddled them in training camp.

You're likely looking at Brandon Gibson,Sims-Walker,Amendola and rookie's Greg Salas and TE Kendrickson as the starters week 1 IMO. Not great but
JMac will get Bradford to spread the ball around quite a bit...and involve the RB's who are solid as a unit. Cadillac Williams has looked outstanding in camp and preseason. My "objective" opinion on the recieving core is that they're just a bunch of average guys who will be in a fantastic offensive system catching passes from a good QB.

Good young players on the defense? Long, Lauranitis, and Bartel. Outside of those 3 it's journeymen and older guys.

CB Bradley Fletcher is better than Bartell already....except most dont know that yet . Thats 3 of 4 four guys who have been drafted and developed in Spags proven system (Bartell was a Scott Linehan holdover draft pick).
Why do you consider Robert Quinn a HUGE risk? Because he sat out his final year at NC due to a suspension? If the Rams felt there were character issues there they wouldn't have drafted him...trust me on that.
As a football player i see zero risk....all the skills are there to be a dynamic pass rusher at the next level. Size,speed,football IQ...dude singlehandedly blocked a FG against KC the other night....lol. It remains to be seen but we have our bookends of the future at DE IMO. Robbins will have to be replaced sure...but they only hold the NFL Draft once a year.

If the Rams were ok with bringing in shady character types....and they were trying to "win it now with a quick fix" (as you claim) they would've brought in Randy Moss or made a strong play for Vincent Jackson last season,or Terrell Owens this season right? Its a mix of young drafted players at key positions:
Bradford at QB
R.Saffold at LT
J.Smith at RT
L.Kendricks/"Illionois" Mike at TE

C.Long at DE
J.Laurinaitis at MLB
B.Fletcher at CB
R.Quinn at DE

When building a team from the ground up(and we were the worst football team i've ever seen just 2 yrs ago ) you've got to have older veterans to mentor the puppies....but also contribute. Guys like James Hall,Robbins,Nail Diggs,Al Harris etc are definately old...but they know their roles. Hall had 10.5 sacks last year Krang....not bad for an old guy.

Free agent DB Quinton Mikkel is 30 yrs old and a pro bowler just 2 yrs ago...he knows Spags system. Is that a guy who wont make an impact in your opinion?

Free agent OG Harvey Dahl is 30 yrs old too...he's replacing last years starter Adam Goldberg at RG <<< (yeah who? He was terrible.).

Finally,what HYPE are you speaking of exactly Krang? As far as i know there isn't much hype involving St Louis other than Bradford having a good rookie season last year.....i dont sense that from the general NFL public to be honest....they're just a horribly bad team 3 yrs ago who's getting better quickly.
Its the system.

I mean...they're not getting that year-after-year San Francisco hype.
Good discussion Krang...keep it real though. I'm not proclaiming my team Super Bowl champions ok?

Please merge Mods because i doubt anyone in here really gives a #%@! about this LOL
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f23/2011-st-louis-rams-thread-162527.html