Realgm- Matrix on the block

[fordronken]

If you are advocating trading Shawn Marion this summer you are not thinking like a GM. That's fan talk all the way. there's absolutely no way the Phoenix Suns are trading Shawn Marion this summer. The only way he gets dealt within the next year is if he really starts complaining about his place on the team.

As for your idea of trading Shawn Marion for Dalembert and Iguodala... as a Phoenix Suns fan I would make that trade. I like both of those players a lot, but there's a big problem with your trade. Philadelphia would NEVER do it. They love those players. Those are their best young players.

Joe Mama

Okay, but look at it from what I was saying. I'm talking about a very large drop off in talent from the Suns side. For example, the earlier stated Marion for Tim Thomas, Ariza and the #9(I think is where the Knicks pick). It comes down to what I said, financial flexibility and a more traditional lineup which will benefit team defense, rebounding and, eventually, the progression of Amare Stoudemire in particular(who in my opinion is the key to any eventual championship).

 

[Joe Mama]

Okay, but look at it from what I was saying. I'm talking about a very large drop off in talent from the Suns side. For example, the earlier stated Marion for Tim Thomas, Ariza and the #9(I think is where the Knicks pick). It comes down to what I said, financial flexibility and a more traditional lineup which will benefit team defense, rebounding and, eventually, the progression of Amare Stoudemire in particular(who in my opinion is the key to any eventual championship).

I'm really not sure how I feel about that trade. The problem with the financial flexibility is that it does little for the Suns as far as the salary cap goes. It only helps the bottom line. JJ is going to get at a minimum $8-9 million. Amare will get the maximum. That will all take effect next year, and it won't matter whether Shawn Marion's money is on the books. So unless you think Ariza and/or the #9 are going to replace Shawn Marion I think it's a bad trade. By the way, Tim Thomas is worthless.

Joe Mama

 

[3rdside]

Agreed Joe - Thank god you're not the GM ford cause Marion for freakin Tim Thomas and a potential crapshoot at #9 blows! Also, i'd be inclined to forget about a possible return to a 'traditional' line up. Suns have found their formula or, at least, the best players they've ever had to make that formula work, and they aren't changing it anytime soon.

 

[fordronken]

Again, I'd love nothing more than to be completely wrong and have last year's starting five lead us to a title. I just, when I try to look at it objectively, don't think they're a team that can beat the Spurs over seven games.

Look. In two years, if Amare becomes an absolute %100 percent stud, which is what I really think is going to happen, would this team have a better chance winning with a small lineup, or with a less talented conventional lineup with depth and rebounding? That's what it really comes down to. Small ball is great for offense and bad for defense and rebounding. That's just the truth. But do you really not think that Amare, Joe and Nash are not enough offense to win a title for a team that plays good defense and rebounds the ball well?

 

[Joe Mama]

Again, I'd love nothing more than to be completely wrong and have last year's starting five lead us to a title. I just, when I try to look at it objectively, don't think they're a team that can beat the Spurs over seven games.

Look. In two years, if Amare becomes an absolute %100 percent stud, which is what I really think is going to happen, would this team have a better chance winning with a small lineup, or with a less talented conventional lineup with depth and rebounding? That's what it really comes down to. Small ball is great for offense and bad for defense and rebounding. That's just the truth. But do you really not think that Amare, Joe and Nash are not enough offense to win a title for a team that plays good defense and rebounds the ball well?

Well, I agree that they need to strengthen their frontcourt. I also agree that they need to field a conventional lineup more often. I think they will do both of those things. I don't agree they need to change the starting lineup though.

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

Well, I agree that they need to strengthen their frontcourt. I also agree that they need to field a conventional lineup more often. I think they will do both of those things. I don't agree they need to change the starting lineup though.

Joe Mama

I don't think the Suns are looking to go "Conventional"
Why would you want to take something so great to watch and turn it into a vanilla factory.

BC: Regardless of who they draft, "We won’t abandon our system and what’s made us successful," Colangelo said of the Suns’ run and-gun style.

Whether through the draft or free agency, "You hope you can add a big guy who can spread the floor and leave the lane open for Amaré (Stoudemire)," he said. "A guy who can knock down the 16-to-18-footer pulls the double-team away from Amaré."

Sounds like Donyell Marshall to me?

 

[elindholm]

Sounds like Donyell Marshall to me?

Or SAR.

I think of Marshall as a three-point shooter who occasionally takes the ball inside, sort of a smoother, taller version of Rodney Rogers. How is his mid-range game? Can he hit an open 16-footer? I'm not saying he can or can't; it's just that I've watched him a fair amount and just don't remember him taking a lot of shots like that.

 

[cly2tw]

Sounds like Donyell Marshall to me?

Or Kurt Thomas, who is a solid low post defender and rebounder, plus can shoot the 15-18 footers with regularity. So, there might be some truth to the Marion to NY rumor, but Kurt instead of Tim.

But seriously, if we can get Frye with their #8, then Marion for Kurt Thomas, Ariza, Frye, and our own #30 sounds intriguing enough to me. Say we get Diougu or Taft with #21 and one of the big PGs with #30. Sign Evans or Marshall via FA we'd have:

Amare/KurtThomas/JoeJ/Q/Nash starting
Evans(Marshall)/JimJ/Hunter/Barbosa/Frye/Diougu/Ariza/#30 bench.

Not bad at all.

 

[asudevil83]

kurt scares the **** out of me....especially when he's pissed.

he looks like he's looking for something to kill someone with.

 

[cly2tw]

kurt scares the **** out of me....especially when he's pissed.

he looks like he's looking for something to kill someone with.

When that "someone" is on the other team, I'm fine with it.

 

[hcsilla]

Sounds like Donyell Marshall to me?

I think of Marshall as a three-point shooter who occasionally takes the ball inside, sort of a smoother, taller version of Rodney Rogers. How is his mid-range game? Can he hit an open 16-footer?

Yes, he can. At the Jazz he regulary did it since Sloan's system requires a lot of mid-range J's from his F's.

 

[Joe Mama]

Yes, he can. At the Jazz he regulary did it since Sloan's system requires a lot of mid-range J's from his F's.

Marshall hasn't had a very good shooting percentage for a forward for much of his career. His career average is 44%. However in his two years with Utah he averaged approximately 51% shooting despite the fact that his three-point percentage was lower than his 35% career average each of those seasons.

I've always liked Marshall. Over the last several years I've stated several times that I would love to see him in a Phoenix Suns uniform. That said, he is 32 years old now. I'd like to see who the Phoenix Suns end up with from the draft before I start pushing for certain players in free agency. I think Hunter is probably going to find more money elsewhere, so the Suns will need to find someone who can back Amare up at center.

Joe Mama

 

[Mad Psyentist]

Although Ive been big on keeping Marion, but I dont know if id really consider Q a core player and wouldnt mind moving him.

What do you all think of Trading..

Qrich + Jake

for

Mihm + D. George

I dont know if itll work capwise and i know theres rumors of George already getting moved to Indy, but George comes off the books next season, and Mihm after. George could bring playoff experience and some D off the bench and Mihm could put in quality mins in the frontcourt as long as he isnt forced to start.

I also figure Q wouldnt mind going back to LA and him and jake would probably be more useful over there anyway.

 

[elindholm]

Qrich + Jake

for

Mihm + D. George

I doubt the Lakers would do that, but I'd be okay with it. I don't particularly like George, but he was successful on the Lakers when they could surround him with stars, and the Suns would be able to do that. I think Mihm is soft, but he's better than any center the Suns are likely to get any other way.

It works under the current CBA.

 

[Joe Mama]

Qrich + Jake

for

Mihm + D. George

I doubt the Lakers would do that, but I'd be okay with it. I don't particularly like George, but he was successful on the Lakers when they could surround him with stars, and the Suns would be able to do that. I think Mihm is soft, but he's better than any center the Suns are likely to get any other way.

It works under the current CBA.

I'm sure the LA Lakers wouldn't make that deal. Chris Mihm has a very reasonable contract, and he's an average center in the NBA. George's contract expires after this next season. Sorry, but that won't stop going to happen either.

Andy, I shot down another one!

Joe

 

[fordronken]

I'm sure the LA Lakers wouldn't make that deal. Chris Mihm has a very reasonable contract, and he's an average center in the NBA. George's contract expires after this next season. Sorry, but that won't stop going to happen either.

Andy, I shot down another one!

Joe

But the Lakers could sure use another swingman...

 

[devilalum]

I don't understand the fascination with trading proven players for draft picks. More often than not draft picks don't pan out. There's really no sure fire way of knowing if these players games will translate to success in the NBA.

Why anybody would trade Shawn Marion for a marginal starter and a draft pick defies logic.

If the Suns were offered a star player for Marion they might listen but he'd have to be REALLY good. Take Marion off this team and they would have been lucky to win 50 games. 20 points and 12 boards a game is huge.

I know he didn't have a great series against SA but he was pretty spectacular for the 85 games proceeding that. If you want to trade Marion for garbage all I can say is, "Did you watch the games?"

 

[devilalum]

WHo are you going to get in a trade that's going to give you this?

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(11.3) Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.01) Ranks #9 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(38.8) Ranks #7 in the NBA in Minutes Played(3146.0) Ranks #14 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(613.0) Ranks #17 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(1289.0) Ranks #15 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(235.0) Ranks #16 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(2.9) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(680.0) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(8.4) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(915.0) Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals(163.0) Ranks #18 in the NBA in Blocks(119.0) Ranks #19 in the NBA in Points(1569.0) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.3) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Double-doubles(53.0) Ranks #14 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(10.4) Ranks #19 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(14.0) Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.49) Ranks #5 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(2073.0) Ranks #5 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(25.59) Ranks #8 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(31.63)

 

[devilalum]

C Channing Frye
PF Amare Stoudemire
SF Quentin Richardson
SG Joe Johnson
PG Steve Nash

If Frye guarded Kevin Garnett one on one for an entire game KG would break Wilt's single game scoring record.