Reality Check - Roster Construction

[Chopper0080]

I don’t believe we are done purging. We’re not going to just cut guys like Ertz and Connor. I would not be shocked to see them traded prior to the trade deadline. Probably won’t get much more than a 6 th round pick but it will be something.
Not really sure how trading them mid season would change or affect our cap hit.

I would rather have the 6-8 mil in additional cap space for next offseason by cutting them now.

 

[BirdGangThing]

But he's not starting from scratch. He's prolonging the pain of the Watt and Hudson contracts for another year.

If you're going to purge, don't you want to get rid of everything?

I agree with you on this, I don't understand it either

 

[slanidrac16]

Point me to ONE post where I’ve made the above argument? You can’t because I’ve never made that argument.

Carry on lying and trolling. Makes for great discussion on the board.

I never called you out. I haven’t called any individual out. If you fall under the “ some posters” I apologize. I have continually said I am not going to put anybody down for their point of view in regards to how this thing is unfolding. I might have said I don’t understand others views but never have called anybody stupid or an idiot.

Geez… this is going to be a rough 4 months.

 

[BritCard]

I would rather have the 6-8 mil in additional cap space for next offseason by cutting them now.

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[slanidrac16]

I would rather have the 6-8 mil in additional cap space for next offseason by cutting them now.

I get it. But bottom line is will we have 80m or 75m is way different than having 15m or 10m.

 

[BritCard]

I get it. But bottom line is will we have 80m or 75m is way different than having 15m or 10m.

We will have MORE money next year by keeping Ertz and Conner.

 

[Stout]

You only get draft picks for 4 years. You have to resign your good players or you're perpetually rebuilding.

No one is saying we should have signed "the best and most expensive FAs." This is a straw man argument. I think people are saying maybe we could try re-signing our better players and maybe not signing the worst and least expensive FAs in almost literally every case except guys who were friends with the head coach.

Exactamundo. Not much I agree with in Harry's post, including how he's mischaracterizing those unhappy with how things are going, which is becoming a trend. "I disagree with them, so I'll just make some stuff up and claim that's what they said" is getting tired.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Great post Harry. You put it way more eloquently than I have been.

 

[BirdGangThing]

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lol waking up to agree with BritCard was not in my itinerary but it goes to show anything is possible

 

[Stout]

I would like to see two quality free agent starters every year. I believe this is easily doable then build through the draft. Outside of injuries I think this will keep any team competitive for the playoffs every year. I don’t believe tearing down a team is necessary but continuing to add keeps a team competitive always.

Would've been nice. Two good, young quality free agents that would be here long-term and wouldn't break the bank or strap the cap. But no, we have to realize the only way to attain young talent is in the draft because reasons? lol

 

[Stout]

How about we get zero quality free agent starters this year and then get 4 or 5 next year?

Sure, if you want to do it the wrong way. Trying to plug so many holes at one time in FA is a poor strategy.

 

[Stout]

I never called you out. I haven’t called any individual out. If you fall under the “ some posters” I apologize. I have continually said I am not going to put anybody down for their point of view in regards to how this thing is unfolding. I might have said I don’t understand others views but never have called anybody stupid or an idiot.

Geez… this is going to be a rough 4 months.

It is going to be a long 4 months alright. A certain segment of the board is clinging to the "there is only one way" thing and bashing anyone who disagrees or thinks the Cards aren't actually hewing to the "one way." If you aren't sucking on hopium, you're "wrong," especially according to @BritCard

 

[slanidrac16]

Exactamundo. Not much I agree with in Harry's post, including how he's mischaracterizing those unhappy with how things are going, which is becoming a trend. "I disagree with them, so I'll just make some stuff up and claim that's what they said" is getting tired.

Stout, I think what you’re saying is many believe even though this is an obvious rebuild you and others feel we aren’t tearing it down enough or tge team is failing to add pieces now that can start the rebuild.
I get it. Please know that everyone’s opinion is simply conjecture so early in this process. I might say I don’t understand a posters view but I will not call them out for being wrong our an idiot.

 

[BritCard]

Would've been nice. Two good, young quality free agents that would be here long-term and wouldn't break the bank or strap the cap. But no, we have to realize the only way to attain young talent is in the draft because reasons? lol

Now you're making things up.

Nobody has said the draft is the only way.

What "good, young, quality" free agents don't break the bank on long terms deals? Good young players don't sign cheap long term deals.

And if they did why would they come here now over a dozen other teams that would be after them?

If your waiting for players that don't exist it's going to be some wait.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Sure, if you want to do it the wrong way. Trying to plug so many holes at one time in FA is a poor strategy.

Are you forgetting about both Draft classes intentionally to make the doom and gloom more sellable or are you saying drafting from very good positions (two years in a row) doesn't matter?

 

[Stout]

agreed Harry

It doesnt get more transparent than Monti himself saying .. "we are not going to sign guys just to sign them"

In other words-- have patience, when the time is right to add FA pieces then we will do so but we need to build a foundation first.

In other words, be ready to compete by 2025. At earliest.

 

[Harry]

Exactamundo. Not much I agree with in Harry's post, including how he's mischaracterizing those unhappy with how things are going, which is becoming a trend. "I disagree with them, so I'll just make some stuff up and claim that's what they said" is getting tired.

Just curious, what did I make up?

 

[PJ1]

They are trying to build depth on both lines by signing high potential players that haven’t panned out since they were drafted? Typically a good reason for this and shouldn’t be part of any strategy. This is risky at very best.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Sure, if you want to do it the wrong way. Trying to plug so many holes at one time in FA is a poor strategy.

If the GM is worth anything they really shouldnt need to be forced to buy too many players

 

[PDXChris]

I would rather have the 6-8 mil in additional cap space for next offseason by cutting them now.

You made a good point about Connor I missed and would absolutely cut him now.

But Ertz is the trickier though being that he ended the season on IR and won't be able to pass a physical right now. They'd have to agree to an injury settlement, but that part isn't the big deal. Getting rid of a playing in the middle of some of the most important parts of rehab is a bad look. If the Cardinals are tying to fix their image, this isn't thr way IMHO.


I'd rather let him play the second half of the season and try to trade him at the deadline or next off session and take the $4 million in dead money in exchange for a late round pick. And who knows, maybe him and Kyler come back together and we real odd some wins to end the season and build momentum into next season.

 

[WiscoBird]

If the GM is worth anything they really shouldnt need to be forced to buy too many players

This is my biggest problem with the build through the draft people. I don't think people really understand the percentage at which draft picks actually succeed.

 

[kerouac9]

It's remarkable that people think that James Connor or Zach Ertz will have any trade value whatsoever.

 

[Stout]

Just curious, what did I make up?

First line, Harry. Maybe one poster or two are saying this. The rest of us aren't, but some folks sure wish we were, so they keep saying it over and over again. It's super annoying. 2023 is a tank. We're over that. We're not happy to see a plan that isn't setting us up for 2024 either.

Keeping both Allen and Murphy would only negatively impact future roster flexibility in the fact that they are penciled in as starters. Yes, they'll impact the cap. No, you won't have two more starting holes to fill almost solely through the draft and one FA period, which is what the "plan" appears to be.

We aren't establishing deep lines. We're establishing very temporary and/or old lines, although I have no problem bringing Beachum back on the cheap.

I think someone already blasted the idea of bringing in bust picks and hoping they're no longer busts.

Not all of that is you making stuff up, but there is much to disagree with, and you're painting a very rosy face onto the very ugly pig that is our plan to return to relevancy in 2024.

There seems to be many complaining the Cards aren’t making enough effort to be competitive next year. I thought going in to the off-season there might be a narrow path to significant improvement. Those hopes quickly evaporated when the price of free agents exploded. The Cards lost 2 decent performers. Allen because the price of expectations reached new heights. They also lost a CB with a concerning injury history who played best against slot receivers. Again, if healthy, he had some growth potential. Still keeping both might well have negatively impacted the future roster flexibility. So the Cards tried to move conservatively to maximize future options. They’ve tried to build depth on both lines with players who when draft appeared to have high potential and simply never fulfilled that potential. It’s old school but establishing effective, deep lines has historically been a path to reasonable competitiveness. This hasn’t meant grabbing expensive free agents, who historically have proved risky selections. There are, of course, few sure things from a draft, but there is safety in numbers. It also appears the Cards aren’t afraid to trade down and increase their potential. I know Anderson looks like the real deal, but even some of those have turned out to be illusionary players. Vernon Gholston comes to mind. It’s not clear which path will result in the best team. In the end, it was always a long shot for the Cards to be competitive in 2023, which I realize is especially painful for season ticket holders. I just think you have to give new administrations the time to at least put their vision in play for a couple of years before assessing the team’s trajectory. Let’s see if acquired players can be “coached up” to be competent contributors. Let’s see how msny of the team’s numerous holes can be plugged effectively through the draft. Let’s see how efficiently game management decisions are made. Instead of early wins, let focus on the foundations being established. It’s okay to call them out, but they should get a little grace time for us to develop a better understanding of their plan. I do believe they have one and it’s likely a shared vision amongst the administration.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

This is my biggest problem with the build through the draft people. I don't think people really understand the percentage at which draft picks actually succeed.

well i should elaborate it will take multiple drafts.

Drafting good quality playerS is THE.MOST.IMPORTANT.ASPECT.OF.A.GENERAL.MANAGERS.JOB.FOR.A.REASON.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Stout, I think what you’re saying is many believe even though this is an obvious rebuild you and others feel we aren’t tearing it down enough or tge team is failing to add pieces now that can start the rebuild.
I get it. Please know that everyone’s opinion is simply conjecture so early in this process. I might say I don’t understand a posters view but I will not call them out for being wrong our an idiot.

no... you'll just project idiotic arguments onto other posters because you don't understand what they're saying.