Reality Check - Roster Construction

[Stout]

Why would you pay good players decent money through a tank and not just sign similar good players when you're through the tank and have the money you just saved?

If we spend $20m on guys in a tank year that's $20m you don't have to carry over to spend on guys in 2024.

Why not just sign similar guys in 2024 AND have an extra $20m you didn't just waste?

Because signing 3-4 good FA starters in a given offseason is a much better way to build a cohesive roster that can work together than signing 6-8 good FA starters in one single offseason. This isn't Madden. Going hog wild all in one window and expecting it to be a good fit is a strategy roundly mocked that often fails.

 

[BritCard]

Good to know. Apparently I’ll continue to pee on your cornflakes.

You should probably ask him to clarify what his opinion actually is instead of just telling you you're wrong 6 different ways

 

[BritCard]

Because signing 3-4 good FA starters in a given offseason is a much better way to build a cohesive roster that can work together than signing 6-8 good FA starters in one single offseason. This isn't Madden. Going hog wild all in one window and expecting it to be a good fit is a strategy roundly mocked that often fails.

I don't agree with that even a little. You're just making stuff up now to justify standing by a position that makes no sense. You (and all the others in your little group) are entrenched in this idea that cutting Conner and Ertz makes sense (it doesn't, not even a little), that the June 1st designations and Hump restructure were stupid (without them we would have $2m useable cap space) and that we should be signing guys "for the future" that would be a waste of money next year.

League history is filled with teams that spent big in FA and turned a team around. It makes very little difference if you had 4 guys this year and 4 next year vs 8 at once. We would likely have the same numbers of FA's as most seasons, they will just be high quality ones. And in fact you can have 9 or 10 instead of 8 with the money you saved in 2023.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

League history is filled with teams that spent big in FA and turned a team around.

Where?

 

[oaken1]

This has been confirmed? Timing seems interesting.

well..he posted the tank gifs right after Tommy Tanks hit a home run for his college team

 

[JohnnyCakes]

welp that settles it-- drafts are not important. Its all about signing free agents and thats it.

Hell-- why even draft? According to some here theres barely any chance they will even pan out.

Maybe thats why Steve Keim lasted as long as he did--- Michael Bidwill ALSO thinks drafts are a waste of time

I dont know why ball clubs like the Steelers and Patriots put so much emphasis on these drafts. Such a waste of time

#ElevenSuperBowlsBetweenThem

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think that @kerouac9 is 100% correct in stating that finding 4 starters in any draft is a tall task. It just rarely happens, even for the best teams.

I think the Cardinals should only plan for 2-3 starters from any given draft.

I agree with the "darksiders" that the Cardinals are missing the opportunity to add a few players NOW. An argument can be made that they have added ONE in Kyzir White this year.

We will know after the draft what the plan is. If the Cardinals trade down and get extra day two picks and future picks, they probably think that they can just fill all needs through the draft. This is a very dicey proposition. Only the absolute best front offices can pull this off and even then, they probably won't really compete for championships.

 

[oaken1]

I think that @kerouac9 is 100% correct in stating that finding 4 starters in any draft is a tall task. It just rarely happens, even for the best teams.

I think the Cardinals should only plan for 2-3 starters from any given draft.

I agree with the "darksiders" that the Cardinals are missing the opportunity to add a few players NOW. An argument can be made that they have added ONE in Kyzir White this year.

We will know after the draft what the plan is. If the Cardinals trade down and get extra day two picks and future picks, they probably think that they can just fill all needs through the draft. This is a very dicey proposition. Only the absolute best front offices can pull this off and even then, they probably won't really compete for championships.

agree... but it seems the odds are better with earlier picks.

Legion of Boom was built over two drafts right? was a pretty solid hit rate

 

[Krangodnzr]

agree... but it seems the odds are better with earlier picks.

Legion of Boom was built over two drafts right? was a pretty solid hit rate

A nearly historic hit rate. Finding Sherman in round 5 and getting a Hall of Fame caliber QB in round 3 is pretty amazing. Also hit on Kam Chancellor in late rounds too.

 

[WiscoBird]

welp that settles it-- drafts are not important. Its all about signing free agents and thats it.

Hell-- why even draft? According to some here theres barely any chance they will even pan out.

Maybe thats why Steve Keim lasted as long as he did--- Michael Bidwill ALSO thinks drafts are a waste of time

I dont know why ball clubs like the Steelers and Patriots put so much emphasis on these drafts. Such a waste of time

#ElevenSuperBowlsBetweenThem

So now we can't state the fact that draft picks have a very low percentage of actually working out haha?

Jebus............okay, you win.

 

[Krangodnzr]

welp that settles it-- drafts are not important. Its all about signing free agents and thats it.

Hell-- why even draft? According to some here theres barely any chance they will even pan out.

Maybe thats why Steve Keim lasted as long as he did--- Michael Bidwill ALSO thinks drafts are a waste of time

I dont know why ball clubs like the Steelers and Patriots put so much emphasis on these drafts. Such a waste of time

#ElevenSuperBowlsBetweenThem

It's not that black or white. Roster construction obviously begins with FA every year. I'd argue you avoid spending on most of the "hot" free agents because a lot of those guys are likely to bust, especially if they don't play in a system that your team plays in.

Re-sign your best young free agents...but it's even better to do it a bit early to spread the money over a longer term. If you let a guy go, try to replace them with a competent replacement. Even though Allen walked, there were at least 4-5 guys that are close enough to warrant signing. The same goes for Murphy.

In the draft, you should stick with big time players from big time schools. Don't use premium picks on size/speed deficient players. Day three is a time to take some swings. Look for guys with lots of upside. Be aggressive during UDFA period...you can occasionally hit big here ala Tony Jefferson, Kwamie Lassiter, etc.

And then there is the post-draft free agency period. This is where you can REALLY find value. James Conner was signed during this time period.

A team should utilize all of these avenues to add to the team.

 

[WiscoBird]

The Cardinals have drafted 3 or more long term starters in one draft one time in the 35 years they have been in the valley. We now have to do it in back to back years just for a chance to be competitive in 2024.

Questioning this line of thinking has now become a thought crime to the loyal base haha.

 

[cardncubfan]

It is going to be a long 4 months alright. A certain segment of the board is clinging to the "there is only one way" thing and bashing anyone who disagrees or thinks the Cards aren't actually hewing to the "one way." If you aren't sucking on hopium, you're "wrong," especially according to @BritCard

Who? I haven't seen any post from anyone that says there's only one way.

 

[DVontel]

Not sure if I’m in the boat in drafting a C/OG with a high 2nd.

Eh, we’ll see.

 

[cardncubfan]

First line, Harry. Maybe one poster or two are saying this. The rest of us aren't, but some folks sure wish we were, so they keep saying it over and over again. It's super annoying. 2023 is a tank. We're over that. We're not happy to see a plan that isn't setting us up for 2024 either.

Keeping both Allen and Murphy would only negatively impact future roster flexibility in the fact that they are penciled in as starters. Yes, they'll impact the cap. No, you won't have two more starting holes to fill almost solely through the draft and one FA period, which is what the "plan" appears to be.

We aren't establishing deep lines. We're establishing very temporary and/or old lines, although I have no problem bringing Beachum back on the cheap.

I think someone already blasted the idea of bringing in bust picks and hoping they're no longer busts.

Not all of that is you making stuff up, but there is much to disagree with, and you're painting a very rosy face onto the very ugly pig that is our plan to return to relevancy in 2024.

So there's only one or two posters complaining? Got it. There must a couple here with multiple usernames then.

 

[cardncubfan]

no... you'll just project idiotic arguments onto other posters because you don't understand what they're saying.

SMH

 

[BirdGangThing]

The Cardinals have drafted 3 or more long term starters in one draft one time in the 35 years they have been in the valley. We now have to do it in back to back years just for a chance to be competitive in 2024.

Questioning this line of thinking has now become a thought crime to the loyal base haha.

I don't doubt this one bit (draft success history) but you still gotta show your work - which 3 players?

And I'd be happy with 3 long-term starters in this draft with our draft position. 2 sounds more likely, but who knows, but I sure would like to draft from a similar (or better) position again next year. 4 or 5 difference makers would be a good start, and if we could also land some B-list actors in the process...

 

[BirdGangThing]

Not sure if I’m in the boat in drafting a C/OG with a high 2nd.

Eh, we’ll see.

When Hudson was good, we were good

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not sure if I’m in the boat in drafting a C/OG with a high 2nd.

Eh, we’ll see.

I think good center play could impact the offense significantly.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Avila has moved to the top of my wish list for #34.

 

[Cheesebeef]

SMH

Do it hard, Cub. Maybe it’ll actually knock some sense into you for once.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not sure if I’m in the boat in drafting a C/OG with a high 2nd.

Eh, we’ll see.

OG seems like a big stretch with the state of our DT, DE, CB and C positions.

 

[BirdGangThing]

We can wax lackadaisical on how long the rebuild will take but Rome wasn't torn down in a day

 

[slanidrac16]

You should probably ask him to clarify what his opinion actually is instead of just telling you you're wrong 6 different ways

I couldn’t care less.

 

[football karma]

But he's not starting from scratch. He's prolonging the pain of the Watt and Hudson contracts for another year.

this is my criticism

a plan that said: 2023 is a reset year, we will take our dead money hits and get rid of bad contracts so we can make the 2023 offseason the one where we load up

but thats not what is happening -- its been half measures so far.