Reality: We gotta give Kolb & Co. some time...

[AZCardsWin]

Sure the play calling has been driving me nuts too but the reality is Kolb was brought in right before preseason. He is just starting to get to know the personnel. He's light years better then anything we had before Warner and since Warner. The Warner era was special but its come and gone. Shame on the Cardinals for not giving him a true #2 WR and for horrendous play calling.

Unlike last year I can live with these losses knowing we have a pontential franchise QB a HOF franchise WR under contract for the next 5 years.

Lets beat Minnesota and get to 2-3 and the bye. Thats got to be the only focus this week! This is the NFC West where 8-8 or 7-9 will get it done this year.

Go Cardinals!
~Tim in NJ

 

[Totally_Red]

Agree that we need to give KK time.

But I don't agree he's a potential franchise QB in the mold of Brady or Manning. He'll improve alright, but I'm afraid his ceiling is limited. He's accurate, but not Kurt Warner-accurate. And he doesn't seem to see the whole field (like Kurt) well enough to find the open receiver(s) in 5-wide sets. And I'm not sure that full field vision is something that can be coached up. Long story short, he can probably eventually get the Cardinals to the post-season again, but not to a Super Bowl.

The most important offseason task IMO will be to upgrade offensive tackle and find someone who can rush the passer. Right now, teams double Darnell Dockett and the rest of our guys struggle to get home. And we knew going in, that our tackles would struggle against above average pass rushers.

 

[nashman]

Agree if the playcalling gets better and the oline can get a grip the offense will be fine. As for the defense they need to play complete games they looked good for the first three quarters then fell apart the have to make plays and be able to stop someone in crunch time. Oh and playcalling offensively in crunch time needs to be addressed ASAP !

 

[nashman]

I'm sorry but how on earth did you determine Kolb field vision? Based on what his 4 games behind the worst o line in football? I mean come on seriously no qb is going through many if any progressions in one second before you have defenders in your face! Way way to early to be evaluating whether he will ever be one of the greats, geesh how about giving the guy a chance to become a qb instead of expecting greatness with poor coaching and terrible blocking being a major factor in how any qb looks.

 

[thephoenixson28]

Agree. our team did enough to win all these games. Its not like we are getting blown out.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's crazy talk. The important thing is to make a strong opinion as early as possible. If you turn out to be wrong later you can just change your mind, but if you're right you can put it your signature for months.

 

[DeAnna]

Biggest diff I see is that he was accustomed to scrambling out of the pocket to make plays - in Whiz's offense they want him to stay in the pocket and STEP UP, not sideways. Of course, that's had to do when you have #75 on the o-line.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kolb has been a limiting factor for this offense, but that doesn't mean he won't improve.

He has good accuracy, a strong enough arm and he moves well. But his pocket presence (or lack thereof) is Plummeresque. Sure our tackles are terrible, but he's caused 3-4 sacks himself by feeling pressure that isn't there.

The weapons around him are good enough to win. Beanie Wells is having a great year, Doucet is one of the best third down receivers in the NFL, Todd Heap is still a dependable over the middle target, and Larry Fitzgerald is still amazing.

The onus is on him to improve.

 

[nashman]

Good one russ ! I think all fans just need to be patient we have alot of new pieces and even some coaches anyone who was expecting greatness out of the gate were fooling themselves. Shortened offseason and a bunch of new players are not gonna have instant chemistry. Give them time and maybe they learn how to clean things up and close some of these games out. On the brightside we have been in all of these games could not always say that when we use to get get destroyed multiple times a year. The offers WILL get better with time, not sure about the D but the maturation of the younger players should help.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Agree. our team did enough to win all these games. Its not like we are getting blown out.

Which really makes one wonder just how good this team could be with a good OT, a legit pass rush and a real #2 WR. All areas everyone knew we needed but we're ignored because $$$ was spent on 2TEs that are rarely used, an ILB better suited to play in the 4-3 and a castoff from the Cleveland Browns along with a bunch of other low impact FA's, but hey at least they signed a bunch of guys, right?

 

[nashman]

I like Doucet but I'm sorry he is not even close to one of the best 3rd down wide receivers in the league. Kolb has a few weapons but it's up to the genius playcaller to teach and design plays and utilize them at the right times to effectively use them. Kolb is the qb not the OC , terrible playcalling can result interrible results. There was a reason Warner seemed to be the only qb to play well, could be he changed the plays so much to ones that would actually work!

 

[john h]

Sure the play calling has been driving me nuts too but the reality is Kolb was brought in right before preseason. He is just starting to get to know the personnel. He's light years better then anything we had before Warner and since Warner. The Warner era was special but its come and gone. Shame on the Cardinals for not giving him a true #2 WR and for horrendous play calling.

Unlike last year I can live with these losses knowing we have a pontential franchise QB a HOF franchise WR under contract for the next 5 years.

Lets beat Minnesota and get to 2-3 and the bye. Thats got to be the only focus this week! This is the NFC West where 8-8 or 7-9 will get it done this year.

Go Cardinals!
~Tim in NJ

I thought for the most part our team has played well. Our experience level has hurt us at CB, QB, and on the line. We could have won 3 of those games had the Gods been with us. I still think we will likely win 6-7 games if Beanie can stay healthy. Our QB will never be a Kurt Warner but I think he will be an average NFL QB. That is if they can teach him to stay in the pocket and not immediately break to the outside. I still do not know what to make of Whiz and of our DC. Whiz sometimes will do some really dumb things like throwing that flag after the NYG called time out. It did not end up in any harm but he either got bad advice from the booth or he made a dumb move.

I remain concerned about Jefferson at CB. Once again the Giants went after him after watching the film of last weeks game. Hopefully it is just his youth and he will learn. We were not able to get much of any rush on Manning. We dropped a couple of passes that probably cost us. I think we still have a good group of receivers and Fitz is a man among boys. That TD catch when he had triple coverage was spectacular. Some say the throw was great. I say the throw was lucky. Our QB cannot throw that ball into triple coverage often as more times than not it will be intercepted or knocked down as the pass has to be where Fitz can out jump the defenders. If it is to short off target it will not work. That happened on one pass. Kolb is going to need to learn who to pass to after looking at the field. He seems to lock in to often on one guy and to often is throwing on the run. He has proven to be tough and has the arm strength but is basically not much more than a rookie. In the future I put him as a middle of the pack starting NFL QB. Certainly no Manning. With a good running game and defense around him we could win the division in the future but I do not see him in the Super Bowl. The Cards did not embarrass themselves and some guys really stood out like Bennie, Fitz, Campbell, and a couple of other defensive linemen and backers.

 

[john h]

Agree that we need to give KK time.

But I don't agree he's a potential franchise QB in the mold of Brady or Manning. He'll improve alright, but I'm afraid his ceiling is limited. He's accurate, but not Kurt Warner-accurate. And he doesn't seem to see the whole field (like Kurt) well enough to find the open receiver(s) in 5-wide sets. And I'm not sure that full field vision is something that can be coached up. Long story short, he can probably eventually get the Cardinals to the post-season again, but not to a Super Bowl.

The most important offseason task IMO will be to upgrade offensive tackle and find someone who can rush the passer. Right now, teams double Darnell Dockett and the rest of our guys struggle to get home. And we knew going in, that our tackles would struggle against above average pass rushers.

Campbell continues to impress me. I would think he blocks as many passes as anyone in the NFL. Seems to always be near the ball.

 

[LarryStalling]

I have written two posts to this thread and they all got lost in space.

First of all, you expect a performance like Kolb's from a rookie. He is not a kid anymore and does not deserve a lot of patience. He is for all intent what he is going to be. How many qb's with 5 years experience in the league turn over a new performance trend. He has always thrown nearly as many td as int and I don't expect that to change.

Our tackles are partially victims of the blocking technique that they employ. Why they insist on engaging the de when they have a full head of steam and then try to hand fight them is beyond me but I think that the OL coach must have some culpability.

 

[john h]

I'm sorry but how on earth did you determine Kolb field vision? Based on what his 4 games behind the worst o line in football? I mean come on seriously no qb is going through many if any progressions in one second before you have defenders in your face! Way way to early to be evaluating whether he will ever be one of the greats, geesh how about giving the guy a chance to become a qb instead of expecting greatness with poor coaching and terrible blocking being a major factor in how any qb looks.

Wells seemed to run very well if that is worst OL in football. Kolb does not help the OL when he is constantly bailing out of the pocket when he could step up and have enough time and not throw on the run.

 

[thephoenixson28]

Which really makes one wonder just how good this team could be with a good OT, a legit pass rush and a real #2 WR. All areas everyone knew we needed but we're ignored because $$$ was spent on 2TEs that are rarely used, an ILB better suited to play in the 4-3 and a castoff from the Cleveland Browns along with a bunch of other low impact FA's, but hey at least they signed a bunch of guys, right?

Not to long ago, people were calling for the nfc west championship. give this time. We will be fine, we are doing enough to win just need to finish. of course we will have holes in certain places, you can't always expect pro bowl player in every position to just fall in our laps. with this new agreement the bidwells have to spend. so what is the excuse now.

 

[TheCardFan]

That's crazy talk. The important thing is to make a strong opinion as early as possible. If you turn out to be wrong later you can just change your mind, but if you're right you can put it your signature for months.

I might put this entire quote in my signature...pretty much sums up the Dark Side.

Like it or not Kolb is basically a rookie (in game experience). He is very similar to Matt Schaub who was traded to the Texans at age 26 (Kolb is 27) after 3 years as the back up in Atlanta. It took Schaub until his 3rd year to breakout with the Texans. He threw 9tds and 9ints in first year and 15/10 2nd year...only playing in 11 games each year.

This team is competitive...3 losses by 8 total pts.

We are weak on the edges and need huge upgrades at both T and OLB spots.

Emerging RB

Need a speedy #2 WR

Two very young CB's who will continue to get better.

So far, I can say that we are a much better football team than last year and have a much brighter future than we could say at this time last year.

I am disappointed with the loses but like the core of what we have. This team with all of its warts, could be 4-0 or 0-4. We have played very well at times but the difference between 4-0 and 0-4 is executing for 60 minutes. So close but yet so far.

 

[Duckjake]

Not to long ago, people were calling for the nfc west championship. give this time. We will be fine, we are doing enough to win just need to finish. of course we will have holes in certain places, you can't always expect pro bowl player in every position to just fall in our laps. with this new agreement the bidwills have to spend. so what is the excuse now.

Right there is the crux of the matter. The Cardinals have had trouble finishing games for years now. Even the 2009 team had that problem and that team was loaded with talent. The Cards had Tampa and the Vikings down last season and couldn't finish. Only a miss by Janikowski and a missed Extra Point by Dallas kept them from blowing those leads as well.

The Cards must learn to step on teams when they have them down. I don't know if just giving the players more time to acclimate to the Cardinals is going to fix that problem when it has existed for several years.

On the other hand we do have a lot of players in only their first or second seasons with Arizona. So maybe they do need more time and this will be like 2007 instead of 2006 and Kolb will throw for 2,362 yards and 21 TDs in the last 8 games as the Cards finish 5-3.

1st and 2nd year players:
Porter,DWilliams,Eason,Holliday,Carter,Schofield,Rhodes,Lenon,Washington,Bradley,Jefferson and Peterson.

Kolb,Sherman,ARoberts,Colledge,Hadnot,Heap and King

1st and 2nd year defensive players in 2008:

Brian Robinson,DRC, and Rod Hood.

 

[TigToad]

I like what I have seen from Kolb. He gets happy feet when the protection collapses, he will need to learn to take a step up and throw in that situation. That will come as his vision improves and his understanding of the offense improves. He has 4 Cardinal starts and a short pre-season with the team. The decisions he's making are not bad ones, he is still indecisive at times, but that will go away with the comfort. His arm gets the ball where he is aiming more often than not. I am thinking of the play where he put the ball behind Larry (3rd quarter maybe?) and I remember thinking that it was one of the few off-target passes he threw. His first and second reads aren't always open and he isn't yet scanning through 3-4 reads yet, but he isn't forcing the ball into INTs either.

The pass protection from the Tackles is terrible. The O-line needs addressing more than any other single factor on the team. That said, the seondary has played better every game. They torched Jefferson a little early, but he settled down as well. The pass rush is great off the D-line, our linebackers are still weak. Until Acho and Schofield develop and/or we sign someone else, they will be. That said, I'm impressed by the pressure we are putting up front, if we EVER get an above average OLB, watch out.

My biggest concern now is that we will give up. We are likely looking at a 2-4 start after the games with the Steelers and Ravens, but could do very well after that point in our schedule, if the team can keep its head up and continue to improve. If they pull into their shell like they did last year... ouch.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Doucet is one of the best third down receivers in the NFL

Uh, what? He made a hell of a play on that crucial 3rd down he dropped late in the game. No idea where you get the idea he's a good receiver in any respect, let alone on 3rd down.

Every receiver other than Fitz has proven to be a failure, and we've wasted 2 3rd rounders trying to replace Anquan.

 

[Totally_Red]

I'm sorry but how on earth did you determine Kolb field vision? Based on what his 4 games behind the worst o line in football? I mean come on seriously no qb is going through many if any progressions in one second before you have defenders in your face! Way way to early to be evaluating whether he will ever be one of the greats, geesh how about giving the guy a chance to become a qb instead of expecting greatness with poor coaching and terrible blocking being a major factor in how any qb looks.

He sure hasn't shown any field vision so far. He can't find the open receiver at all. I'm assuming he can't find them, because he can't SEE them.

 

[thephoenixson28]

Uh, what? He made a hell of a play on that crucial 3rd down he dropped late in the game. No idea where you get the idea he's a good receiver in any respect, let alone on 3rd down.

Every receiver other than Fitz has proven to be a failure, and we've wasted 2 3rd rounders trying to replace Anquan.

He is leading in Recieving yards on 3rd Downs. He IA not great but average.

 

[Russ Smith]

Uh, what? He made a hell of a play on that crucial 3rd down he dropped late in the game. No idea where you get the idea he's a good receiver in any respect, let alone on 3rd down.

Every receiver other than Fitz has proven to be a failure, and we've wasted 2 3rd rounders trying to replace Anquan.

yeah I am surprised that play isn't getting more mention here I mentioend it twice yesterday. His drop led to us punting the ball right back to them, if he catches it we move the chains. Wasn't easy the DB was right there but when your QB is struggling the last thing he needs is a WR to drop a crucial pass like that.

Kolb has to play better that's clear but as they said yesterday Whiz told them repeatedly they are asking Kolb to do a lot more than he's ever done before in a new system so it's going to take time for him to be comfortable. He needs his guys to rally around him and help him out. Beanie did his part, Fitz did his, I think Heap has done his, but the OL hasn't and the drop by Doucet was a huge play.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He is leading in Recieving yards on 3rd Downs. He IA not great but average.

Take away the sell out blitz vs. the Panthers where he had to beat one db, and I wonder where he'd rank...

 

[chickenhead]

I'm not giving Kolb a pass but I'm also not going to pretend to evaluate his potential in a vacuum when he's playing behind this line. I don't think he's a Brady or Manning either but those are two of the top 5 quarterbacks ever. Ever. Also, Manning has the same number of SB victories as Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Jeff Hostetler. And I don't mean that as a knock on Manning at all.