Reality: We gotta give Kolb & Co. some time...

[kerouac9]

yeah I am surprised that play isn't getting more mention here I mentioend it twice yesterday. His drop led to us punting the ball right back to them, if he catches it we move the chains. Wasn't easy the DB was right there but when your QB is struggling the last thing he needs is a WR to drop a crucial pass like that.

Kolb has to play better that's clear but as they said yesterday Whiz told them repeatedly they are asking Kolb to do a lot more than he's ever done before in a new system so it's going to take time for him to be comfortable. He needs his guys to rally around him and help him out. Beanie did his part, Fitz did his, I think Heap has done his, but the OL hasn't and the drop by Doucet was a huge play.

Alex Smith seems to have no hard time bringing his team back (on the road no less) and winning games with a new system. What do you expect Whis to do except back up his hand-picked guy who is clearly getting worse week after week?

It's Week 4, every team had to struggle with new personnel, systems, a shorter time frame, etc., etc. Some teams are winning and some are losing. The sad fact of the matter is that we paid a ransom in picks and money to get Kolb, who is playing no better than a rookie and worse than Cam Newton, who many people here (it must be killing Stout) thought was never going to succeed in the NFL.

 

[Chopper0080]

Alex Smith seems to have no hard time bringing his team back (on the road no less) and winning games with a new system. What do you expect Whis to do except back up his hand-picked guy who is clearly getting worse week after week?

It's Week 4, every team had to struggle with new personnel, systems, a shorter time frame, etc., etc. Some teams are winning and some are losing. The sad fact of the matter is that we paid a ransom in picks and money to get Kolb, who is playing no better than a rookie and worse than Cam Newton, who many people here (it must be killing Stout) thought was never going to succeed in the NFL.

While I see where you are coming from, you really have to evaluate players in a vacuum. It isn't realistic to look at this player and say that he is failing because he isn't preforming as well as another player. That being said, the team does need time because as of right now, it is an execution problem and not a system problem. We aren't in these close games despite our entire coaching staff as many have states. To be honest, our team just isn't that talented for that to be true. Our players will either start making the plays that they are supposed to or we will get players in the offseason to replace them.

 

[Russ Smith]

Alex Smith seems to have no hard time bringing his team back (on the road no less) and winning games with a new system. What do you expect Whis to do except back up his hand-picked guy who is clearly getting worse week after week?

It's Week 4, every team had to struggle with new personnel, systems, a shorter time frame, etc., etc. Some teams are winning and some are losing. The sad fact of the matter is that we paid a ransom in picks and money to get Kolb, who is playing no better than a rookie and worse than Cam Newton, who many people here (it must be killing Stout) thought was never going to succeed in the NFL.

Alex Smith has also played in 58 NFL games, most of them starts, and thrown nearly 1200 more passes in the NFL than Kolb has. Alex played really well yesterday but that's far from the norm for him.

And again, Smith has been with that team for years he's not playing with an entirely new roster, some new players yes, but he knows Gore, Davis et al a lot better than Kolb knows the Cards roster.

I'm not saying Kolb has played well the last 2 games but he sure looked a lot better than Sanchez and Flacco did last night. It's amazing what happens to young NFL QB's when they don't trust their OL.

And before you say it, I'm NOT comparing the Giants D to the Jets or Ravens D.

 

[kerouac9]

While I see where you are coming from, you really have to evaluate players in a vacuum. It isn't realistic to look at this player and say that he is failing because he isn't preforming as well as another player. That being said, the team does need time because as of right now, it is an execution problem and not a system problem. We aren't in these close games despite our entire coaching staff as many have states. To be honest, our team just isn't that talented for that to be true. Our players will either start making the plays that they are supposed to or we will get players in the offseason to replace them.

But the coaching staff apparently doesn't know that the players are bad (and I don't think they're as bad as Kolb is making many of them look on offense). You can't win with Porter, but it's not Porter that is forcing himself to be run out there over and over to dance with the offensive tackle.

That's the coach.

You can't win with Keith or Brown, but they're not running themselves out there over and over to get turnstiled by mediocre defensive ends.

That's the coach.

You can't win with your secondary being in a panic because no one knows what they're supposed to do from play to play and they're frantically gesturing to each other.

That's on the coaching staff.

There is a talent problem, but the talent problem is compounded by a coaching problem. You can't fire all the players.

You can say that this player doesn't have that excuse because other players are living with it. Kolb's been in the NFL 5 years! Why is he less impressive than Newton who's been in the NFL 5 weeks? Why is the guy we just gave $60 million to playing worse week after week than a guy the 49ers gave $5 million to for just this year? Isn't that on the player?

It's not happenstance that the Cards got the ball in the red zone 3 times in the first quarter and walked away with 6 points. AT HOME!

 

[kerouac9]

Alex Smith has also played in 58 NFL games, most of them starts, and thrown nearly 1200 more passes in the NFL than Kolb has. Alex played really well yesterday but that's far from the norm for him.

And again, Smith has been with that team for years he's not playing with an entirely new roster, some new players yes, but he knows Gore, Davis et al a lot better than Kolb knows the Cards roster.

I'm not saying Kolb has played well the last 2 games but he sure looked a lot better than Sanchez and Flacco did last night. It's amazing what happens to young NFL QB's when they don't trust their OL.

And before you say it, I'm NOT comparing the Giants D to the Jets or Ravens D.

So... at what point does Kolb get better than Alex Smith? Do we have to watch Kolb be downright awful for 5 years? Did Alex Smith get such quality coaching in those 8 years in the NFL that he's head-and-shoulders above Kolb in the W-L column, despite Kolb having 5 years with Andy Reid and Marty Mohrningweg?

Is it time to say that Kolb's performance against Carolina was far from the norm for him? When do we say that?

 

[Russ Smith]

So... at what point does Kolb get better than Alex Smith? Do we have to watch Kolb be downright awful for 5 years? Did Alex Smith get such quality coaching in those 8 years in the NFL that he's head-and-shoulders above Kolb in the W-L column, despite Kolb having 5 years with Andy Reid and Marty Mohrningweg?

Is it time to say that Kolb's performance against Carolina was far from the norm for him? When do we say that?

He's already better than Alex Smith. If you put Smith on this team and asked him to do what we ask Kolb to do he'd do what Smith has done his entire NFL career, fall flat on his face.

The reason Smith looks so much better this year is that Harbaugh has done a terrific job of not asking him to do too much. Smith is coming off his best game, Kolb his worst and Smith still has just a 10 point higher passer rating. Before Sunday they were damn near even.

Your last sentence was silly. Smith has his best game by far and you want to say Kolb's best game far from the norm? Like Smith's wasn't. How many games has Kolb started, how many times over 300 yards. compare that to Smith how many times has he come close to what he did yesterday. You'll see the ratio is a lot higher for Kolb than it is for Smith

 

[kerouac9]

He's already better than Alex Smith. If you put Smith on this team and asked him to do what we ask Kolb to do he'd do what Smith has done his entire NFL career, fall flat on his face.

The reason Smith looks so much better this year is that Harbaugh has done a terrific job of not asking him to do too much. Smith is coming off his best game, Kolb his worst and Smith still has just a 10 point higher passer rating. Before Sunday they were damn near even.

Okay, so the problem isn't Kolb, it's the way the coaching staff is using Kolb. I completely agree. Kolb is an average to below-average quarterback who is being asked to do things that are impossible for him.

Am I putting words in your mouth?

I personally think that Smith is more physically talented than Kolb, but probably isn't as football-smart as Kolb is. But Whis is doing and has done an awful job tailoring his system to the talent that is presented to him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Okay, so the problem isn't Kolb, it's the way the coaching staff is using Kolb. I completely agree. Kolb is an average to below-average quarterback who is being asked to do things that are impossible for him.

Am I putting words in your mouth?

I personally think that Smith is more physically talented than Kolb, but probably isn't as football-smart as Kolb is. But Whis is doing and has done an awful job tailoring his system to the talent that is presented to him.

I partly agree but you missed a big part of what I was saying. Smith in his career has fallen apart everytime he's not protected.

If you put him in our offense with our tackles and knowing he's not going to get help from TE's or RB's chipping, Smith would do what he's always done, flop.

Kolb hasn't played well the last 2 games, but we're actually asking him to take a big part of the load on offense, SF just asks Alex to not lose the game.

But yes Harbaugh is doing a much better job with Smith right now than Whiz has done with Kolb. The point is Harbaugh had about 3 times as many games of tape on Smith to watch as Whiz had with Kolb.

 

[kerouac9]

I partly agree but you missed a big part of what I was saying. Smith in his career has fallen apart everytime he's not protected.

If you put him in our offense with our tackles and knowing he's not going to get help from TE's or RB's chipping, Smith would do what he's always done, flop.

Kolb hasn't played well the last 2 games, but we're actually asking him to take a big part of the load on offense, SF just asks Alex to not lose the game.

But yes Harbaugh is doing a much better job with Smith right now than Whiz has done with Kolb. The point is Harbaugh had about 3 times as many games of tape on Smith to watch as Whiz had with Kolb.

Our tackles had help from RBs chipping constantly yesterday, and from the TEs, as well. I was keying on it--and Brown especially had TE help. That's one of the reasons that Heap was so absent from the game plan early on.

I can't believe you're suggesting that San Fran has somehow massively better protection than we do. Staley is better than Brown, but Smith on the other side is as bad or worse than Keith.

Both guys are former spread QBs who operate best out of the shotgun getting the ball out of their hands. I think that Smith would be doing as well or better than Kolb is doing here, and it doesn't have anything to do with watching a ton of game tape.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Are we really arguing about Alex Smith vs Kevin Kolb? Neither are the answer.

The key to winning in this league is either a top 10 QB or a top 5 defense. Nothing else really matters.

 

[Russ Smith]

Our tackles had help from RBs chipping constantly yesterday, and from the TEs, as well. I was keying on it--and Brown especially had TE help. That's one of the reasons that Heap was so absent from the game plan early on.

I can't believe you're suggesting that San Fran has somehow massively better protection than we do. Staley is better than Brown, but Smith on the other side is as bad or worse than Keith.

Both guys are former spread QBs who operate best out of the shotgun getting the ball out of their hands. I think that Smith would be doing as well or better than Kolb is doing here, and it doesn't have anything to do with watching a ton of game tape.

Sure it does, harbaugh knows exactly what NOT to ask Smith to do.

I see just about every SF game, Smith is not under nearly the amount of pressure as Kolb is. His tackles aren't getting beaten immediately at the rate of one per pass play.
They also throw the ball less than us, about 6 times less per game and that difference would be even greater if they didn't throw 33 times yesterday.

SF is a running team, we're a passing team.

 

[nashman]

Kolb is better than Alex Smith to even argue that is kind of well a waste of time. Smith is terrible still after 5 seasons with a ton of starts not even close to the same situation as Kolb who has come to a new team with a totally different system and very little time to try and learn on the fly. To say Smith would be doing as good or better here than Kolb is well is pure opinion and not really a good one IMo. Good god we are 4 games in and some of you are seriously down on Kolb with all the other terrible things going on? He managed the game and we scored 27 on a good giants team it should be enough to win if we don't freaking give up 21 in the 4th qtr. Kolb is doing fine its too early in this system on this team to ask him to win games that comes later after he is fully acclimated to the system right now he is being asked to manage and make some plays. Alot of the blame should fall on the coaching staff trying to freaking air it out 70% of the time with a new QB and a Oline that can't pass block for ****! Seriously if we had the commitment to run the ball in the first 3 games that we had against the giants our record I would bet would be better!!!!!!! Wake up COACH!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jasper]

We lost 3 games by a total of 8pts.
Wash by 1 point, Sea by 3, and NYG by 4.

If we were 4-0 we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[WarnerHOF]

It is safe to say Kevin Kolb is a bust. There is a reason why Philly fans were laughing when they heard we were giving up a 2nd rounder and DRC.

 

[Evil Ash]

It is safe to say Kevin Kolb is a bust.

No, not even close.

There is a reason why Philly fans were laughing when they heard we were giving up a 2nd rounder and DRC.

Well they better stop laughing because they have the same record as us and Vick can't stay healthy.

 

[Evil Ash]

We lost 3 games by a total of 8pts.
Wash by 1 point, Sea by 3, and NYG by 4.

If we were 4-0 we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If we were 2-2 we wouldn't be having this conversation

 

[Dougmo]

Kolb certainly hasn't performed great but to say he's a definitive bust is crazy-talk. IMO,l arning a new system, new teammates, below average oline play (for pass situations), and questionable play calling are all factors.

Did I hope (and expect) us to play better? Hells yeah, but that doesn't mean where we are now is where we'll be at the end of the season.

I expect that our offense will continue to improve. Hopefully our play-callers will recognize that Beanie is the horse to ride and that will open up the rest of our offense. The fact that Whiz seems so pass-centric drives me nuts. Why wouldn't we run on that freakin third down at the end of the game??

I guess I'm just not nearly as pessimistic about this team compared to last year. I feel we do have a QB to build around, as well as some other really nice pieces. If we can stay competitive in the weak NFC West while getting Kolb, Peterson & Horton up to speed, I'd say mission accomplished for this year.

The key for me is to NOT let any of our developing talent walk and pick up a OLB in the 1st round next year.