Really scathing opinion from Gambadoro on Beanie

[CtCardinals78]

I'm not a Beanie fan and don't think it's a big deal if he doesn't return, but this just goes to show the stupid head games Whisenhunt plays with his players are not working. This is what Beanie also said on Monday:

""How things have gone," he said when asked to give specifics. "Not just as of late, but just since I've been here."


The head games he plays get old as a fan of this team, I cannot imagine how it is for those players. Wells was benched pretty much for the rest of the game after that fumble, yet Whisenhunt says he still has confidence in him. Really? What kind if chickencrap answer is that? Ugh. Oh well one more game of Whisenhunt's nonsense. Christmas comes Monday for me.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it was the last gasp of this franchise drafting for need. Edge was gone and Tim Hightower wasn't all that reliable coming out of the Super Bowl run, and we needed a running back. We really wanted the Brown kid from UConn, but he got snatched up by the Colts, so we settled on Beanie.

I disagree with Chopper on the value of Beanie--I think that his evaluation process is a little skewed--he'd be a solid first round pick (of the Rashard Mendenhall variety) with a team that wanted to use him the right way. He was never going to be as good as Thomas Jones--another player who was mis-cast by the Cards coaching staff--but he could have been a productive runner in the Cedric Benson mold.

31st overall picks rarely become superduperstars.

But this is the huge issue for me now as it was for me when we drafted him. Donald Brown has not turned into an All Star but he fit what we were trying to do as an offense. He was a versatile back in college with good speed and good hands out of the backfield. The idea was to get a running back who was more explosive than Hightower, that could hang onto the ball and would still be able to catch passes out of the backfield. Brown was taken ahead of the Cardinals and then the team panicked.

My issue isn't with Wells as a player because he is pretty much the same guy that he was in college. A few more injuries and less effective but essentially the same skill set. My issue is that in the scouting process, nobody flagged him as a guy who either didn't work in our system or a guy who required our system to change in order for him to be effective. Our scouting department either didn't have the runningbacks ranked in accordance to how they fit in our system or there was a lack of communication from the coaching staff to the scouting department in regards to what they needed in a runningback.

It is similar to drafting a west coast QB when you run a vertical passing offense and then being surprised when he struggles in the system. Now, not all of Wells' issues have been scheme related, but it sure didn't help and that goes on both the scouting dept and the coaching staff.

 

[Mitch]

I totally disagree.

In today's NFL, personal responsibility for one's own career is at a premium. Teams don't have time for Beanie Wells to figure it out, he has to figure it out on his own.

Gone are the days that a player can sit back and learn for a few years before they are thrown in the action. Beanie Wells is responsible for himself, not Coach Whisenhunt.

The problem is, like Chopper stated, Beanie Wells is an extremely flawed player. He's not good in the passing game and despite anything he's done in training camp, minicamps, or on his own, he's never really gotten any better.

Also his upright running style leads to more injuries and he's tripped up too easily. That's his own fault. Rarely do runners change their running style, just like QBs don't change their throwing style.

Beanie Wells' issues are scouting issues. I mean we could've taken Shady McCoy, but the Whisenhunt/Graves decision making tree screwed up.

I too couldn't fathom how Beanie was going to be an all-around fit in the type of offense Whisenhunt was running.

Just as Whisenhunt has waffled back and forth on QBs---he's also waffled back and forth on what style of offense he wants to play.

He came in saying he was going to build a power running attack---and based on the type of o-linemen he drafted or signed (big chunky run types), it looked like he was indeed planning to do just that.

But, as soon as Kurt Warner took over the offense, the whole approach changed.

After Warner left, Whisenhunt could have reverted back to his original plan---but by them he had gotten too enamored with the dink and dunk.

Where I differ in opinion from you Krang is that, imo, the two most significant parts of coaching are: (1) learning what buttons to press with each individual---some need coddling and some need the proverbial size 12; (2) adapting your scheme to the strengths of the QB and the personnel.

Either that or you draft to fit your scheme---but Whisenhunt hasn't done that.

Beanie Wells did not fit the scheme.

John Skelton does not fit the scheme.

Levi Brown---the original scheme yes---now, not as much.

Alan Faneca---not a fit in a pass oriented offense.

Jim Dray---not a fit.

We still, as a pass oriented offense where our star WR is constantly getting doubles, do not have a speed WR---and never had one in 6 years.

Michael Floyd---another possession-type WR.

As for pressing the right buttons---the master of it, imo, was Bill Parcells. he hounded Phil Simms because that's what it took to get the best out of him and Simms is the first to admit it.

He coddled LT---because LT needed to be stroked.

It is what it is.

If you don't want to have to coddle any player, you don't draft those types.

 

[kerouac9]

But this is the huge issue for me now as it was for me when we drafted him. Donald Brown has not turned into an All Star but he fit what we were trying to do as an offense. He was a versatile back in college with good speed and good hands out of the backfield. The idea was to get a running back who was more explosive than Hightower, that could hang onto the ball and would still be able to catch passes out of the backfield. Brown was taken ahead of the Cardinals and then the team panicked.

My issue isn't with Wells as a player because he is pretty much the same guy that he was in college. A few more injuries and less effective but essentially the same skill set. My issue is that in the scouting process, nobody flagged him as a guy who either didn't work in our system or a guy who required our system to change in order for him to be effective. Our scouting department either didn't have the runningbacks ranked in accordance to how they fit in our system or there was a lack of communication from the coaching staff to the scouting department in regards to what they needed in a runningback.

It is similar to drafting a west coast QB when you run a vertical passing offense and then being surprised when he struggles in the system. Now, not all of Wells' issues have been scheme related, but it sure didn't help and that goes on both the scouting dept and the coaching staff.

I don't really/never did have a problem with Hightower's explosiveness. He was definitely capable of putting big plays together. The problem with Tim Hightower was (1) his inability to get positive yardage on a consistent basis and (2) his inability to hold on to the football. As I said, we traded Tim Hightower, a fifth round pick, after we drafted RyTim Williamstower with a 2nd round pick. Made no sense. Was Williams really going to be a more productive first-down runner?

I agree with you that picking up Wells for this team was a huge error in communication between the scouts and the coaching staff. Maybe that's when Whis started to have more say in who was picked. It seemed to me that the team experienced immediate buyer's remorse on Beanie (this has been a recurring theme with this management group), to the point where Darren Urban was openly questioning Beanie's toughness two weeks into his first training camp. Silly.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't really/never did have a problem with Hightower's explosiveness. He was definitely capable of putting big plays together. The problem with Tim Hightower was (1) his inability to get positive yardage on a consistent basis and (2) his inability to hold on to the football. As I said, we traded Tim Hightower, a fifth round pick, after we drafted RyTim Williamstower with a 2nd round pick. Made no sense. Was Williams really going to be a more productive first-down runner?

I agree with you that picking up Wells for this team was a huge error in communication between the scouts and the coaching staff. Maybe that's when Whis started to have more say in who was picked. It seemed to me that the team experienced immediate buyer's remorse on Beanie (this has been a recurring theme with this management group), to the point where Darren Urban was openly questioning Beanie's toughness two weeks into his first training camp. Silly.

Kind of off topic, but where do you rank improving the RB position on the list of offseason priorities? Do you have a preference in doing so in FA or via the draft?

 

[CardLogic]

The Cards, just like the Suns have done in the past, have a tendency to scout players they think will be available to them when their pick comes. Often someone will fall down to them and they have not done their mental preparation on the guy to see why he is falling down the board. They just see him as a great pick who they were lucky enough to have fall to them. I have witnessed the Suns do this many times over the last 30 yrs.

There is a reason most players fall down the board unexpectedly. Teams find out about that player, but don't share the info with the other teams, like the Cards, who fall for the imaginary steal of the draft.

They probably will never learn. They are trying to get lucky, rather than be intelligent. Rule of thumb for smart teams should be:
1. Don't waste a high pick on any injury prone or player who has had a serious injury in college. There are too many other healthy players to choose from.
2. Don't waste a pick on any player who has gotten in trouble with the law. Let the Al Davis's of the world gamble on them.
3. Don't take any player you haven't completely done your homework on, even though they seem like a steal when they fall unexpectedly down the draft boards. Some body knows something that you don't.

Great post! I think this post pretty much hit the nail on the head. Well, with one exception -

Point 1 above; even though I didn't, and don't, think it was as great a miss as most on this board, Adrian Peterson immediately comes to mind...

Instead, I think it is not so much about being injured, but rather how the individual reacts to being injured.

But, like I was saying, SBF's point about thinking they are getting the "steal of the draft" seems about right.

 

[CardLogic]

Regarding Beanie Wells - I think the biggest issue with Wells, and ironically one that gets little if any notice, is his lack of vision. Wells couldn't read a hole, if he tripped in it!

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Regarding Beanie Wells - I think the biggest issue with Wells, and ironically one that gets little if any notice, is his lack of vision. Wells couldn't read a hole, if he tripped in it!

Excellent point. I've thought that as well.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

The Cards, just like the Suns have done in the past, have a tendency to scout players they think will be available to them when their pick comes. Often someone will fall down to them and they have not done their mental preparation on the guy to see why he is falling down the board. They just see him as a great pick who they were lucky enough to have fall to them. I have witnessed the Suns do this many times over the last 30 yrs.

There is a reason most players fall down the board unexpectedly. Teams find out about that player, but don't share the info with the other teams, like the Cards, who fall for the imaginary steal of the draft.

So let me get this straight. BEFORE the 2008 season, the Cards KNEW they were going to the Superbowl, and therefore would be picking 31st in the 2009 draft. So they directed their scouts NOT to scout Beanie Wells, because he would surely be gone by the time we would pick.

When do you think scouting is done? After the season?

 

[CardsFan88]

I don't think our RB's are that bad. I think they get injured too much, and so with that we need another one. But the ones we have can get the job done, if we give them the help around them.

Beanie needs to wear cleats, and our OL needs a major overhaul so it can do either run block or pass block (or both, we currently do neither).

Our OL screws our WR's since they can't run 1/2 or more the routes most WR's run because the QB is sacked before they are halfway through the route.

Our OL screws our RB's since they can't get to -2 from the LOS before being hit 1/2 the time. When the secondary knows you can't run deep plays it really does help the run defense.

Our OL screws our QB's since they don't have 3-5 seconds to pass but more like 1.5-2.5. Also see long list of injured QB's, or just Kolb's injury history with us.

Beanie thinks there's going to be major changes, and he's going to be one of them. I can fault the guy for saying publicly and sounding like he wants to leave, but I can also realize how frustrating the whole thing has been to him or anyone on the team.

People also forget that he didn't want to be put on the injured reserve and said he could have been ready sooner. So perhaps there's lots of things showing him he's falling out of favor, and with the losing streak it's making it seem to him he's gone.

I still think we should keep him, tell him to wear cleat's a real football player would wear, and have a new GM that brings in OLmen and a QB.

At the very least, Beanie is a short yardage back this team needs to have anyways. But with a real line and a real pair of cleats, when not injured, he might also be pretty good.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think our RB's are that bad. I think they get injured too much, and so with that we need another one. But the ones we have can get the job done, if we give them the help around them.

Beanie needs to wear cleats, and our OL needs a major overhaul so it can do either run block or pass block (or both, we currently do neither).

Our OL screws our WR's since they can't run 1/2 or more the routes most WR's run because the QB is sacked before they are halfway through the route.

Our OL screws our RB's since they can't get to -2 from the LOS before being hit 1/2 the time. When the secondary knows you can't run deep plays it really does help the run defense.

Our OL screws our QB's since they don't have 3-5 seconds to pass but more like 1.5-2.5. Also see long list of injured QB's, or just Kolb's injury history with us.

Beanie thinks there's going to be major changes, and he's going to be one of them. I can fault the guy for saying publicly and sounding like he wants to leave, but I can also realize how frustrating the whole thing has been to him or anyone on the team.

People also forget that he didn't want to be put on the injured reserve and said he could have been ready sooner. So perhaps there's lots of things showing him he's falling out of favor, and with the losing streak it's making it seem to him he's gone.

I still think we should keep him, tell him to wear cleat's a real football player would wear, and have a new GM that brings in OLmen and a QB.

At the very least, Beanie is a short yardage back this team needs to have anyways. But with a real line and a real pair of cleats, when not injured, he might also be pretty good.

Can a player who has bad feet, questionable vision and struggles to get yards after contact be a consistent short yardage back? I don't really think so. You might argue that one of Wells biggest issues is his inability to consistently get 3-4 yards per carry and his # of carries for negative yards.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't really/never did have a problem with Hightower's explosiveness. He was definitely capable of putting big plays together. The problem with Tim Hightower was (1) his inability to get positive yardage on a consistent basis and (2) his inability to hold on to the football. As I said, we traded Tim Hightower, a fifth round pick, after we drafted RyTim Williamstower with a 2nd round pick. Made no sense. Was Williams really going to be a more productive first-down runner?

I agree with you that picking up Wells for this team was a huge error in communication between the scouts and the coaching staff. Maybe that's when Whis started to have more say in who was picked. It seemed to me that the team experienced immediate buyer's remorse on Beanie (this has been a recurring theme with this management group), to the point where Darren Urban was openly questioning Beanie's toughness two weeks into his first training camp. Silly.

We also have to remember that no RB has really been successful in Arizona since maybe Johnny Johnson. Even Edge who ran for over a 1000 yards twice was under 4 yards per carry.

 

[kerouac9]

Kind of off topic, but where do you rank improving the RB position on the list of offseason priorities? Do you have a preference in doing so in FA or via the draft?

Fairly low. It's kind of a ranking of intensity, but I have QB, OLB, OG, (major dropoff) S, RB, DE, OT, CB, TE.

I'm always going to prefer the draft, since you're going to get guys for essentially their careers at dirt-low prices. If you want specific names, give me a few weeks to think it over.

Can a player who has bad feet, questionable vision and struggles to get yards after contact be a consistent short yardage back? I don't really think so. You might argue that one of Wells biggest issues is his inability to consistently get 3-4 yards per carry and his # of carries for negative yards.

You're really going overboard and past the point of reality regarding Beanie Wells here. Two years ago he was Top 5 in the NFL in success rate. He's still that guy; the offensive system and line around him has gotten worse.

Beanie can be a Cedric Benson type in a system that's willing to support him.

 

[daves]

Between Leinart's Lindleyan performance against the vaunted Panthers defense and Beanie's slip six, it really was a banner day for the THESMEL All-Stars on Sunday, wasn't it?

Haha, and now that Palmer's injured and Leinart finally had another chance to show what he could do... Terrelle Pryor was chosen to start ahead of him.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...e-pryor-at-quarterback-in-final-game/1797031/

...dave

 

[40yearfan]

Beanie's biggest problem is he can't break a tackle. He goes down too easily. All good RB's are able to make the first man miss thus giving them a chance to get up to speed and make yardage. Beanie seems to trip over his own feet quite a bit and goes down without anyone touching him. Unless he can get past that bad habit, he'll never be a good RB.

 

[WildBB]

We also have to remember that no RB has really been successful in Arizona since maybe Johnny Johnson. Even Edge who ran for over a 1000 yards twice was under 4 yards per carry.

And the OL has been as bad for the same amount of time pretty much.

When do they address the basics in a real concerted manner?!

Probably the biggest reason we lost out on P. Manning as well.

 

[azsouthendzone]

I'm not a Beanie fan and don't think it's a big deal if he doesn't return, but this just goes to show the stupid head games Whisenhunt plays with his players are not working. This is what Beanie also said on Monday:

""How things have gone," he said when asked to give specifics. "Not just as of late, but just since I've been here."


The head games he plays get old as a fan of this team, I cannot imagine how it is for those players. Wells was benched pretty much for the rest of the game after that fumble, yet Whisenhunt says he still has confidence in him. Really? What kind if chickencrap answer is that? Ugh. Oh well one more game of Whisenhunt's nonsense. Christmas comes Monday for me.

Great post

 

[Chopper0080]

Fairly low. It's kind of a ranking of intensity, but I have QB, OLB, OG, (major dropoff) S, RB, DE, OT, CB, TE.

I'm always going to prefer the draft, since you're going to get guys for essentially their careers at dirt-low prices. If you want specific names, give me a few weeks to think it over.




You're really going overboard and past the point of reality regarding Beanie Wells here. Two years ago he was Top 5 in the NFL in success rate. He's still that guy; the offensive system and line around him has gotten worse.

Beanie can be a Cedric Benson type in a system that's willing to support him.

I can see where you are coming from here.

 

[THESMEL]

Thats all BS- Nobody has produced at RB in Whiz's tenure- He destroyed a top 10 all time RB in Edge- While THT was the worse starting RB in the NFL for 2 years straight! Cardinals were last in attempts, yardage and everything rushing- even after kurt retired for his own health and welfare!

Starting St pierre, Bartel, DA, Hall, Skelton, Kolb, Croyal, Hoyer doesn't matter we threw like our hair was on fire - and never gave a QB a legititmate chance to establish a consistant offense.

Don't be lazy look at the team stats on rushing since Whiz's arrival - click on attempts - yardage whatever at the top of the list on this link- change the year - then blame it on the individual QB- Oline- RB - WR if your stupid! It aint rocket science- Defenses play us one dimensional and kick the living Cardinal POOP out of us!

Cardinals rushing stat link!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...erence=ALL&role=TM&season=2012&seasonType=REG

Oh yea - GAMBO IS A STINKER- With fans like that who needs hobbitisis

 

[CardsFan88]

Can a player who has bad feet, questionable vision and struggles to get yards after contact be a consistent short yardage back? I don't really think so. You might argue that one of Wells biggest issues is his inability to consistently get 3-4 yards per carry and his # of carries for negative yards.

Depends how much the shoes are effecting him imo. Lots of those carries where he doesn't accomplish anything is because he slips. Many of the others is because our line sucks.

The real question is, what could anyone do behind our line, and in our situation with no QB?

Beanie with real cleats and a decent line would probably be what we hoped he would be, except for injuries of course.

I'm of the mindset that Beanies #1 (personal) issue isn't vision or him being injury prone, the thing that has held him back most have been his feet and the inability to keep them under himself. I believe it's very possible, though not certain, that it contributes to his injuries and definitely leads to him being ineffective. I also feel it might limit what he can do with what he sees. He can't change direction like he should so with his style of cleats its more like tunnel vision, anything in the periphery is mute because he'd slip if he went for that. Of course the whole line can't block hurts too.

But Beanie definitely has the tools that can be utilized effectively, we just aren't. Blame Beanie. Blame Whiz. Blame whoever, but after a couple of slips his rookie season, he should have been made to wear bigger spikes in his cleats. I have no reason to believe that if he went elsewhere, some other coach wouldn't make that be the first thing they do and who knows what happens. Basically we've hampered the ability of our RB to succeed his whole tenure by allowing him to slip around the field like he had shoes on a hockey rink. I'm pretty sure even Gretsky would have sucked had he played in shoes. Of course that's an extreme, but still Beanie slips and slides on what seems like most of his carries, and a very high but uncounted percentage of that it isn't a small slip.

Hey maybe I'm wrong and Beanie would still be unproductive, not consistent with short gains, etc. But with our line just because the RB doesn't do it, doesn't mean they can't.

 

[THESMEL]

34 passes to 17 runs- again = it is all Beanie Wells' fault- He should not deserve to be a 1000 yard back for all of his remaining years in the NFL!

Whiz really showed him and the team - as DD kicks or tweets Cardinal fans in the nuts again.

 

[PDXChris]

34 passes to 17 runs- again = it is all Beanie Wells' fault- He should not deserve to be a 1000 yard back for all of his remaining years in the NFL!

Whiz really showed him and the team - as DD kicks or tweets Cardinal fans in the nuts again.

Do you go were ever Beanie does? I REALLY hope so.

 

[CtCardinals78]

34 passes to 17 runs- again = it is all Beanie Wells' fault- He should not deserve to be a 1000 yard back for all of his remaining years in the NFL!

Whiz really showed him and the team - as DD kicks or tweets Cardinal fans in the nuts again.

I'm not sure what you just said there, but given your previous affinity for Beanis I can only assume you are taking his side. What Beanie said is 1,000% wrong and not only should he not have played today, he shouldn't even have dressed for the game.

 

[187]

34 passes to 17 runs- again = it is all Beanie Wells' fault- He should not deserve to be a 1000 yard back for all of his remaining years in the NFL!

Whiz really showed him and the team - as DD kicks or tweets Cardinal fans in the nuts again.

The team really missed his 2ypc today, let me tell ya. Your boys on his way out to be a career second stringer, get used to it.

 

[THESMEL]

I think The Bean will be here long after The Whis is gone - at least I hope so- It is had to run wih a ball and chain attached to you groin area!