Rebounding

[azirish]

A key reason the Suns lost their last two games was because of rebounding. This will probably be the most significant factor in the playoffs and it's not clear there is much that can be done about it.

The problem for the Suns is that their best rebounding lineup is not as good on offense: Marion, Stoudemire, and KT. KT tries, but Diaw and Jones are bigger offensive threats. Unforuntately, neither Diaw and Jones are especially good rebounders.

The problem is made worse by the tendency of the Suns players to start running down court rather than ensuring the rebound is grabbed. Suns opponents will often have five guys going for a rebound even though the Suns don't even send one guy to offensive glass on jump shots.

Getting better rebounding from Diaw and Jones is not going to be easy. Neither are especially tall, strong, or quick to the ball. Rebounding is a lot about hustle and being willing to mix it up, but these guys don't on a consistent basis.

The situation is made worse by the back that the Suns guards aren't especially good rebounders (although Barbosa has been improving lately). Ironically, Nash's inability to deep his man in front of him is partly offset by his ability to get in position to get the rebound.

Knowing where the ball is likely to go is a key to rebounding and I'm not sure that many of the Suns understand. For example, long shots usually generate long rebounds so standing rung next the basket usually means the ball goes over their heads. Of course, knowing the tendencies of shooters is useful because some guys shoot flat and create long rebounds while others have a lot of arc which pop up.

In the draft, IMHO the Suns will have to find a real rebounder who can run with the Suns. KT can't and there are too many guys who don't rebound well enough.

 

[Covert Rain]

A key reason the Suns lost their last two games was because of rebounding. This will probably be the most significant factor in the playoffs and it's not clear there is much that can be done about it.

The Suns have proven they can have good rebounding games. Not every team they face will be a great rebounding team. That is more of a factor against the likes of San Anotonio and the Mavs. However, we all know based on our matchups with the Mavs that we can lose the rebounding battle, dominate points in the paint and still win.

The problem is made worse by the tendency of the Suns players to start running down court rather than ensuring the rebound is grabbed. Suns opponents will often have five guys going for a rebound even though the Suns don't even send one guy to offensive glass on jump shots.

It's not a tendency. It's the style. This team is built on getting easy transition buckets. No it doesn't help on rebounding at times but considering the teams record, I would say the style has paid off.

The situation is made worse by the back that the Suns guards aren't especially good rebounders (although Barbosa has been improving lately). Ironically, Nash's inability to deep his man in front of him is partly offset by his ability to get in position to get the rebound.

Most guards are not good rebounders. There are only a few in the league. Steve Nash? He leads the league in taking charges last time I checked. Doesn't that require getting in front of someone? Rebounding is all about your front court, not your back court anyway. Pointing out your point guards lack of rebounding doesn't make sense. It applies to about 95% of the teams in the NBA.

In the draft, IMHO the Suns will have to find a real rebounder who can run with the Suns. KT can't and there are too many guys who don't rebound well enough.

I wouldn't mind seeing a mobile big man that can rebound and block shots. I just don't think there are that many in the draft to be had.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Kurt Thomas and our 2 late 1st round picks for Marcus Camby.

 

[Covert Rain]

Kurt Thomas and our 2 late 1st round picks for Marcus Camby.

I like that.

 

[azirish]

Kurt Thomas and our 2 late 1st round picks for Marcus Camby.

The only way Denver does that deal is if they doubt Camby can stay healthy through 2010.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The only way Denver does that deal is if they doubt Camby can stay healthy through 2010.

Camby has missed at least 10 games in every year of his career. He has always had health issues.

 

[elindholm]

We said at the beginning of the year that rebounding would be the Suns' biggest problem. It's a shame that, six months later, they haven't made much of a dent addressing it. While I agree that personnel has something to do with it, a lot of it is technique and attitude. Most of the Suns don't have the capacity to become great rebounders, but they could do a lot better than they're doing.

 

[F-Dog]

Gee, two games in which the Suns couldn't be expected to give full effort, and it shows up in the rebounding stats. Shocking.



The two players who have to board for the Suns are Diaw and Amare--neither of them is drawing opponents from the offensive glass with the threat of the fast break any more.

When Amare in particular is rebounding well, the Suns are usually able to hold their own rebounding-wise.

 

[azirish]

I wish it was just a couple of games where there wasn't much intensity. The Suns ranked 24th in rebounding differential at -2.34. Dalls is 3rd at +3.74.

Realistically, this is the one thing that concerns me going into the playoffs. The Sun cannot afford these 12 rpg differentials or giving up 18 offennsive rebounds. They must up their intensity a lot on the boards or it will be a short playoff season.

 

[Gaddabout]

Defensive rebounding is the problem. Marion is reliable on the offensive boards. So is Amare. KT is the only reliable defensive rebounder. The guy is almost always in position. He just can't be counted on for a lot of minutes because it doesn't spread the defense out on the offensive side of the ball.

That's not going to be fixed by the playoffs. The Suns pretty much count on having on sizable differential in shooting percentage. The closer an opponent like San Antonio or Dallas gets to 50 percent, the more the weakness on the defensive boards becomes for the Suns.

But this is not an emotional issue for us, right? This is nothing new. If the Suns were a better defensive rebounding team, they'd have amazing defensive numbers. Second chance scoring kills them against the better teams. The Suns have improved in terms of defensive coverages.

 

[Nasser22]

I seem to remember Kurt on the team last year when we didn't have a guy who can score as much as Amare and we still led the league in scoring. He doesn't hurt our offense. Every fast break requires a rebound to start it all so there's always one guy behind. I don't see him hurting the offense at all, but having him on the floor instead of Jones or Diaw makes us a much better rebounding and defensive team. Remember last year how much of a difference he made in our opponent's PPG and FG% when he didn't play? On offense he can also hit the mid range shot very well, better than Diaw most of the time, so Amare seems to do better on offense also with more space. The team plays much better with him on the floor and with the Lakers being so good defensively against us and having the bigs to outrebound us, I don't see a reason why Kurt shouldn't play over 20 minutes during the 1st series and against San Antonio.

Edit: Even with KT on the floor we'd have 2-3 good 3-point shooters there too. Spreading the defense isn't really an issue, at least not as much as rebounding is. There's no way we beat San Antonio without KT playing a good amount of minutes. Did you see his defense on Duncan? No one, at least no opponent that can last a fast tempo game against us, can post him up and get anywhere. He holds his ground and does a great job against other big men.

 

[Gaddabout]

I seem to remember Kurt on the team last year when we didn't have a guy who can score as much as Amare and we still led the league in scoring. He doesn't hurt our offense. Every fast break requires a rebound to start it all so there's always one guy behind. I don't see him hurting the offense at all, but having him on the floor instead of Jones or Diaw makes us a much better rebounding and defensive team. Remember last year how much of a difference he made in our opponent's PPG and FG% when he didn't play? On offense he can also hit the mid range shot very well, better than Diaw most of the time, so Amare seems to do better on offense also with more space. The team plays much better with him on the floor and with the Lakers being so good defensively against us and having the bigs to outrebound us, I don't see a reason why Kurt shouldn't play over 20 minutes during the 1st series and against San Antonio.

Edit: Even with KT on the floor we'd have 2-3 good 3-point shooters there too. Spreading the defense isn't really an issue, at least not as much as rebounding is. There's no way we beat San Antonio without KT playing a good amount of minutes. Did you see his defense on Duncan? No one, at least no opponent that can last a fast tempo game against us, can post him up and get anywhere. He holds his ground and does a great job against other big men.

I don't think KT will see much time on the floor if the opponent is the Lakers. Maybe he'll guard Brown, who's playing with a badly sprained ankle, but he can't guard Lamar Odom. That's a recipe for Odom going off for about 30.

Marion will get the assignment at 4, and KT will come off the bench. But the Suns will be determined to play small against the Lakers and force the rhythm. We all know what the Lakers' game plan is: Slow it way down, force the Suns to guard their 7-footers, use Odom as a passing/scoring threat down low, and hit the boards. It's all about pace in that series, and KT just doesn't help the Suns as much as you'd like.

San Antonio's different because they need to run a little, and outside of Tim Duncan, they don't have much else on the front line. KT would get his minutes in that series.

 

[Griffin]

Defensive rebounding had always been a problem. This was my main concern going into the Spurs series two years ago, and still remains my main concern. Yes, the Suns can have good rebounding games, but that usually happens only when the opponent doesn't constantly crash the offensive boards. Last playoffs, I thought the Lakers had much greater success against us when they committed to getting offensive rebounds rather than getting back on defense.

I think the Suns as a team have improved defensively, but on a lot of occasions our defensive efforts go to waste because we are unable to secure the rebound. And it is not just personnel issue; rebounding is a team effort. You need everyone boxing out. Last night KT battled hard for rebounds, but often he was surrounded by three Clippers players, because nobody else helped to keep them away.

Yes we can win despite giving up a lot of offensive rebounds, but that requires us to be shooting high percentage and play with high energy pretty much all the time. This is difficult to maintain every game during the course of the playoffs. But if we establish our running game early and get fastbreak points early, teams will often back off of the boards.

 

[JCSunsfan]

During our hot streak in December and January, Amare owned the front of the rim--defensive rebounding wise.

He'll have to get back to that.

 

[Errntknght]

Improved rebounding for the playoffs probably has to come from Diaw, Jr and Bell as our bigs have been doing about as well as can be expected. Those three all have pitiful rebounding stats for the year - so bad that it has to be somewhat for lack of effort. In Diaw's case it goes right along with his general lack of aggressiveness which is apparent to everyone. We've seen a few signs of a change in that of late, so that gives some reason to hope. Raja is in the low echelon even among guards and there is no reason for that given his size, quickness and smarts. He just needs to focus on it more.

 

[azirish]

Improved rebounding for the playoffs probably has to come from Diaw, Jr and Bell as our bigs have been doing about as well as can be expected. Those three all have pitiful rebounding stats for the year - so bad that it has to be somewhat for lack of effort. In Diaw's case it goes right along with his general lack of aggressiveness which is apparent to everyone. We've seen a few signs of a change in that of late, so that gives some reason to hope. Raja is in the low echelon even among guards and there is no reason for that given his size, quickness and smarts. He just needs to focus on it more.

I agree completely on Diaw. I wish he'd work on strength training because his lack of upper body strength is huge problem.

I think the problem with Raja has more to do with how he is used on defense. His approach is to get right up on his man, which is great for stopping shooters but means he's too far away for all but the longest rebounds. I'm not sure he's got enough general floor vision to react to shots being taken, but it may be that he's face guarding (as they call it in football).

 

[mathbzh]

In Diaw's case it goes right along with his general lack of aggressiveness which is apparent to everyone. We've seen a few signs of a change in that of late, so that gives some reason to hope.

If Diaw improved is attitude lately, it don't appears in is rebounding numbers.
He seems still bothered by his back problems and that shows up in the rebounding area. Hopefuly in PO game he will focus more on the game and forgot about his back.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Camby on THIS team = NBA Champs!!!

(if healthy)

 

[dodie53]

if camby is with the suns, marion can always play SF, amare at PF, camby at C..

and the suns are still a fast team..

 

[Covert Rain]

if camby is with the suns, marion can always play SF, amare at PF, camby at C..

and the suns are still a fast team..

I would love to see it but we better have a backup. Camby gets hurt ...ALOT.

 

[Griffin]

Quoth the Matrix:

"If we rebound the ball well, we can do everything we want to do. It's about us. We're going to go out here and do 'us.' The only time they can really slow it down is when they've got the ball. When we've got it, we can do whatever we want to out there."

Well, I'm glad to hear someone on the team talk about rebounding being the key, or at least that's how I read that. Perhaps Mike is putting some additional emphasis on defensive rebounding during practice.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

PERHAPS ???

The GD girl scouts are ready to start asking us to sell cookies.