Ref. fixing games?

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Too much limelight, with the amount being bet on that game and the close spread every casino in the world would have their top fixer specialists keeping a close eye on it. Somebody would've been on to it within an hour of tip-off if not sooner. Even if Donaghy had the desire and stupidity to try and pull it off there's no way the mob would have let him go through with it for fear of detection.

And who are you to say that he fixed Game 3 when he literally officiated hundreds over the past few years and in all likelihood only shaved points on a few? Plus, it's already been written that Donaghy only influenced spreads and not outcomes.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Too much limelight, with the amount being bet on that game and the close spread every casino in the world would have their top fixer specialists keeping a close eye on it. Somebody would've been on to it within an hour of tip-off if not sooner. Even if Donaghy had the desire and stupidity to try and pull it off there's no way the mob would have let him go through with it for fear of detection.

And who are you to say that he fixed Game 3 when he literally officiated hundreds over the past few years and in all likelihood only shaved points on a few? Plus, it's already been written that Donaghy only influenced spreads and not outcomes.

Your whole viewpoint is based on 100% speculation, and it is based on how you would fix games if you were in his shoes. Do you fix games? How the hell would you even know half about what you are saying. Are you a relative?Your posts are making absolutely no sense. PWI?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

And your viewpoint is based on what exactly? I'll admit that there might be truth to Donaghy fixing Game 3 when somebody provides me evidence of such, all I've been presented with so far is a bunch of whining veiled in a supposed search for the truth. I don't hear a cry to review Game 4 of the Lakers-Suns series from this year despite the free throw disparity. Is that because the game if fixed was so in the Suns favor perhaps?

My viewpoint is not based on speculation, it's based on other documented match fixing events in sports history. The last time someone fixed a game as high profile as Game 3 was the 1919 World Series (before replays, TV, etc) so it's extremely rare for such a high profile match to be fixed due to the attention and scrutiny it garners. Also the financial reasoning posed in the other article is pretty much meaningless these days with the proliferation of online gambling, you can bet literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on a regular season game through a bunch of different outlets without really getting noticed.

Funny though that making a point and supporting it with evidence means I'm drunk in your opinion. I suppose I should copy your cuss-filed posts and pointless ramblings and provide everybody with some insightful and thought-provoking reading material as you do.

 

[slinslin]

Dude that Lakers - Suns game was a blowout, we lead by 20 in the 4th quarter, if Donaghy was fixing that game it would have been in his interesst to make calls against the Suns. Amare had 27/21 that game, Nash had 17/23 that game.

We outrebounded them that game, we had significantly less turnovers, more posessions. The Lakers got 25 fouls, the Suns 20 which is basically identically when you take into account that the Suns had a lot more offensive posessions.

And unlike the Spurs-Suns game their was nobody who was brought into foul trouble while in the Suns-Spurs games they had a buch of horrid calls that limited Amare to 20 minutes and other outrageous calls that you cant find in the Suns-Lakers game.

Just one more thing. I think fixing games is a lot easier when the 2 teams are on equal level. IF one team is much better than the other like Suns compared to Lakers, it's hard to fix the game in favor of the Lakers because even if you try you might not get it done anyway.

 

[F-Dog]

And your viewpoint is based on what exactly? I'll admit that there might be truth to Donaghy fixing Game 3 when somebody provides me evidence of such, all I've been presented with so far is a bunch of whining veiled in a supposed search for the truth. I don't hear a cry to review Game 4 of the Lakers-Suns series from this year despite the free throw disparity. Is that because the game if fixed was so in the Suns favor perhaps?

I certainly wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

And your viewpoint is based on what exactly? I'll admit that there might be truth to Donaghy fixing Game 3 when somebody provides me evidence of such, all I've been presented with so far is a bunch of whining veiled in a supposed search for the truth. I don't hear a cry to review Game 4
of the Lakers-Suns series from this year despite the free throw disparity. Is that because the game if fixed was so in the Suns favor perhaps?

My viewpoint is not based on speculation, it's based on other documented match fixing events in sports history. The last time someone fixed a game as high profile as Game 3 was the 1919 World Series (before replays, TV, etc)so it's extremely rare for such a high profile match to be fixed due to the attention and scrutiny it garners.

If Donahgy was reffing, it will be reviewed...and likely already has. Every freekin game of his could be tarnished...he was a tool for the mob...at their beckoning. Not an enviable position. I doubt if he had much say so in when he was 'whistling' for them.

Documented...?? Just how do you know that game was the last one ? You make as large as an assumption as anyone. 2 weeks ago, it would have been crazy to suggest a ref was throwing ANY game. So because it hasn't happened in a while, then it won't? that is the basis of your logic ?
Brilliant deduction, but no doubt you had #1 son helping eh Charlie ?

Scrutiny ? Fact is, the bigger the game, the bigger the betting on it. It is easier to wager multiple large sums on a game with alot of 'action' on it than just a regular game. It is completely logical game 3 was just such a game. It wasn't a HUGE game per say...it was game 3 of the semis...big whoop. But it was one of but two games that night being wagered on. These guys aren't trying to win 3 - 4 hundred bucks.

We will be fed more and more info about this matter...hopefully at the same pace as Stern. All this happened right under his schnaz. This ref had already been called in to discuss his bad habits.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Funny though that making a point and supporting it with evidence means I'm drunk in your opinion. I suppose I should copy your cuss-filed posts and pointless ramblings and provide everybody with some insightful and thought-provoking reading material as you do.

Where is the evidence? I'll be waiting for it. So far you have only provided what you think goes on in the head of a NBA ref that would fix games, so really you have added nothing. You have said that he didn't have an effect on the outcome of games which I find rediculous. If it was a player on a marquee team missing shots or turning the ball over at the end of blowouts I could see your point, but it is a NBA referee that is making or not making calls to effect the spread and the over/ under. How that doesn't effect the outcome is beyond me.

 

[Gee!]

Interesting.. Dont know if it was before cuz this thread is so long..

Rasheed Wallace not a fan of accused referee Donaghy
Posted by Justin Rogers July 20, 2007 15:53PM

Remember several years ago when Rasheed Wallace got suspended for a week for threatening an NBA referee in the parking lot after a game? Well it turns out that was Tim Donaghy, the official under investigation for point shaving.

January 26, 2003, ESPN.com: Then, about an hour after the game, Wallace was speaking with Memphis guard Brevin Knight and signing autographs for an acquaintance of Knight's when Wall, Donaghy and Steve Javie, the third ref, came walking past on the way to their car.

According to a source, Wallace shouted at Donaghy, "That was a bull---- call and technical, and I'm gonna get my money back," referring to the fine players receive for getting T'd up.

Donaghy then, according to the source, shouted back, "Watch the tape."

At this point, things get a little murky. Wallace then apparently took some steps toward Donaghy, and, a source says, said, "No, you watch the tape," and cursed at Donaghy. What is also unclear -- and very important, obviously -- is whether Donaghy cursed back at Wallace, or merely repeated what he'd already said, or didn't say anything. No one I spoke with disputes, though, that Wallace reacted by raising his arms -- as if to throw a punch, the league believes; with no malice toward Donaghy intended or planned, Wallace's people believe -- and moving toward Donaghy, who moved toward Wallace. Another source contends that Wallace then yelled at Donaghy, "I'm gonna kick your ass, punk-ass mother-----," and that the league viewed this as prima facie evidence of a threat against the official -- the major reason for the seven-game suspension.

 

[Stargazer]

I think the safest way to "fix" a game would be to change how closely the game is called. You can call the game "fairly" to both sides, but if you pick the right game, deliberately not calling fouls and "letting them play" would still have the effect of giving one team a huge edge over the other team.

Ideally, you'd want to pick a game between a finesse team and a dirty team. Allowing both teams to foul without calling the fouls would have the effect of handing the game to the dirty team.

Sound like any playoff games you can think of?

 

[Errntknght]

I did a check of a gaming site called 'Covers' or something like that. Donaghy's gross stats are not out of line. The closest thing to suspicious was that in games he refereed the home team's average margin was +1.8. It averages about 3 pts overall and several other referees had average margins further off the overall mean than Donaghy did.

Actually the thing I find interesting is that basketball bettors take the refs into account when they are making point spread bets. It would be interesting to have a few years worth of data to see if the individual refs do show a pattern of having low spreads or high spreads. The data for one year suggests they might but it doesn't leap out at you. If I get energetic or too bored I might do a simulation analysis and see how probable it is that one years results are distributed the way they are. Offhand I'd say it will be mildly improbable.

 

[CardShark]

MTFanClub,
You are delusional. Everyone was screaming about how that game was called. The Suns were the better team and the Spurs were allowed to get away with assaulting Nash every time he crossed half court. I personally don't feel it will be limited to one official, but that's just my opinion.

The bigger the game, the heavier the betting. The closer the opponents are ranked, the heavier the betting. The less games played, the heavier the betting. The heavier the betting, the easier it is to hide corruption.

You say he wouldn't fix that game because of the attention on it, that it would be a greater risk. Well, it's one of the games being talked about. The truth will come out, finally.

 

[Joe Mama]

MTFanClub,
You are delusional. Everyone was screaming about how that game was called. The Suns were the better team and the Spurs were allowed to get away with assaulting Nash every time he crossed half court. I personally don't feel it will be limited to one official, but that's just my opinion.

The bigger the game, the heavier the betting. The closer the opponents are ranked, the heavier the betting. The less games played, the heavier the betting. The heavier the betting, the easier it is to hide corruption.

You say he wouldn't fix that game because of the attention on it, that it would be a greater risk. Well, it's one of the games being talked about. The truth will come out, finally.

Yeah, that argument doesn't really work since San Antonio got away with assaulting Steve Nash throughout the entire series. The difference in game 3 was Amare's foul trouble and that Tim Duncan should have been in just as much foul trouble.

Everybody is going to think that their team lost games because of this bozo con man unfortunately we might never know which ones he fixed.

Joe

 

[CardShark]

Yeah, that argument doesn't really work since San Antonio got away with assaulting Steve Nash throughout the entire series. The difference in game 3 was Amare's foul trouble and that Tim Duncan should have been in just as much foul trouble.

Everybody is going to think that their team lost games because of this bozo con man unfortunately we might never know which ones he fixed.

Joe

Like I said, i don't think it was just one bad ref. The officiating is so open to corruption, I feel strongly that it has flourished.

 

[Ollie]

It gets worse and worse...

Federal authorities believe the referee at the center of the betting and game-fixing probe rocking the NBA will cooperate with investigators - and possibly name other officials or players involved in the scandal, law enforcement sources told The New York Daily News.

Saddled with large gambling debts, Tim Donaghy allegedly used mobbed-up bookies to place thousands of dollars in bets on games over the past two seasons, including contests he officiated, the sources said.

Two of the bookies are expected to be arrested this week after Donaghy, who has resigned from the NBA, surrenders to authorities in New York as early as Tuesday, the sources said.

New details of the growing scandal emerged yesterday and painted a troubling picture of the 40-year-old Donaghy. The so-called family man, who hid his frightening temper and shady associates from public view, has been arrested twice for erratic and threatening behavior.

Brogan said Donaghy tried to intimidate him by saying he played golf with famous players like Charles Barkley.

Sources told The New York Daily News that federal authorities first heard Donaghy's name on a wiretap during investigations into the Gambino crime family over the past year.

A Philadelphia wiseguy wanna-be is believed to have threatened to use his contacts in the Gambino family to hurt Donaghy if the ref - already known as a heavy gambler - did not share inside information and help fix games, sources said.

That gangster also claimed he would expose Donaghy's serious debts if he did not cooperate with the bookies, who allegedly won thousands of dollars with the referees' help, sources said

Full article here http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_rogue_ref_may_blow_whistle-3.html

 

[elindholm]

Wow. This is worse than the drug scandal, worse than the Artest brawl. I'm really not sure the league can survive this.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wow. This is worse than the drug scandal, worse than the Artest brawl. I'm really not sure the league can survive this.

I'm sure glad the NBA has Stern at the helm. I'm sure he knows how to preserve the fairness and the integrity of the game. He's probably looking into his rule book right now to see who he can suspend or fire and then call it good.



IMO, he has a myopic view of the game and needs to expand his horizon to have a better view. Things are not always black or white or written into a rule book or a CBA. I wish a foul would always be called fairly for both teams and consistently... and especially not change in the playoffs.

 

[sly fly]

Too much limelight, with the amount being bet on that game and the close spread every casino in the world would have their top fixer specialists keeping a close eye on it. Somebody would've been on to it within an hour of tip-off if not sooner. Even if Donaghy had the desire and stupidity to try and pull it off there's no way the mob would have let him go through with it for fear of detection.

And who are you to say that he fixed Game 3 when he literally officiated hundreds over the past few years and in all likelihood only shaved points on a few? Plus, it's already been written that Donaghy only influenced spreads and not outcomes.

Before I read any further, I have to comment on this.

Once you enter the "game", you can't stop playing.

How do you not influence an outcome if you begin making calls in the 1st or 2nd quarters. Don't those calls have an impact on the game? Wouldn't making all of his calls towards the end of the game bring more attention to him?

Don't be so naive. From all reports I've read, Tim Donagy is a creep who would do anything to support his lavish lifestyle.

 

[azirish]

Too much limelight, with the amount being bet on that game and the close spread every casino in the world would have their top fixer specialists keeping a close eye on it. Somebody would've been on to it within an hour of tip-off if not sooner. Even if Donaghy had the desire and stupidity to try and pull it off there's no way the mob would have let him go through with it for fear of detection.

And who are you to say that he fixed Game 3 when he literally officiated hundreds over the past few years and in all likelihood only shaved points on a few? Plus, it's already been written that Donaghy only influenced spreads and not outcomes.

I guess you have not gone back and looked at Game 3 or at least the youtube video. How many horrendous calls does it take before you take these charges seriously? As for picking up on the problem, the FBI has been investigating for two years.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

There was poor officiating throughout the entire series (and the entire NBA in general for that matter) even in games Donaghy had no part of. Until there's some evidence that Donaghy fixed that specific game, I'm going to continue to maintain my reasoning as to why Game 3 is not the type of game fixers look to influence.

 

[azirish]

There was poor officiating throughout the entire series (and the entire NBA in general for that matter) even in games Donaghy had no part of. Until there's some evidence that Donaghy fixed that specific game, I'm going to continue to maintain my reasoning as to why Game 3 is not the type of game fixers look to influence.

Your hypothesis appears to be that all the refs would do is alter the spread. But what happens when the spread is 4 and you take the points, but there is a risk that your team actually loses?

You start with the hypothesis that refs won't try to change who wins and then claim that all the evidence to the contrary must be due to incompetance because refs won't try to change who wins for fear of being caught. But since all the evidence is dismissed as incompetance, why should he be afraid of being caught?

 

[boisesuns]

Don't be so naive. From all reports I've read, Tim Donagy is a creep who would do anything to support his lavish lifestyle.

I just can't see a ref living a "Lavish Lifestyle" it seems wierd.