Republic: Suns want Banks to lead

[scoutmasterdave]

Just because the Spurs lucked/tanked into Robinson and Duncan does not mean that their FO wants the title any more than any other contender, IMO. Take TD off of the Spurs and they have NO titles and are a very average team, same with Chicago and MJ, but there aren't many TDs and MJs out there...

You write that like there isn't a way to win a title besides tanking and lucking into a Tim Duncan. The only team to win a title in the last decade by tanking is the Spurs; the others got there with shrewd offseason moves, great coaching, and some luck. It's obvious that this team is extremely close. I just wish that the front office, since the team *is* extremely close, would be willing to put off the salary dump for a year or two in order to give the team the best possible shot to win a championship. And perhaps that scenario isn't realistic, but I think that lack of commitment to a title is the general frustration of Suns fans.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO this subject has just about been beaten to death. Besides Stern, the Suns had problems in the playoffs because they did not have enough depth that could get off the bench and actually contribute. I hope the Suns enter this season towards winning a Championship as well, but to get there they need more depth. I'd rather see the Suns concentrate more on developing depth that trying to obtain the top seed.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

You write that like there isn't a way to win a title besides tanking and lucking into a Tim Duncan. The only team to win a title in the last decade by tanking is the Spurs; the others got there with shrewd offseason moves, great coaching, and some luck. It's obvious that this team is extremely close. I just wish that the front office, since the team *is* extremely close, would be willing to put off the salary dump for a year or two in order to give the team the best possible shot to win a championship. And perhaps that scenario isn't realistic, but I think that lack of commitment to a title is the general frustration of Suns fans.

By the same token, the Spurs have never paid the luxury tax in order to field a championship team. So why is it reasonable for the Suns investors to pay the league $20 million each year for a CHANCE to win one? I wouldn't if I was them - it is no guarantee for a 'chip, but the money IS guaranteed. Not a good way to go about it, IMO. That is why, also IMO, that the FO is doing what they can to get there. I mean, would you pay $10 mill (lux tax included) to a Mihm or Brown to get help in the middle? Then still be way over the limit even when the KT contract expires? Would that little bit of stupidity prove that they would do anything to get a championship? I don't think so.

I did not say that the only way to win was to have TD - but he is the reason that the team that is on our lips every day has 4 of them, asterisks or not. And every move discussed ends up in "how does that help us with Duncan".

 

[Treesquid PhD]

IMO this subject has just about been beaten to death. Besides Stern, the Suns had problems in the playoffs because they did not have enough depth that could get off the bench and actually contribute. I hope the Suns enter this season towards winning a Championship as well, but to get there they need more depth. I'd rather see the Suns concentrate more on developing depth that trying to obtain the top seed.

Cheese, usually we are on the same page but you're off today.

The Suns haven't really had "problems" in the playoffs, in the years where they realistically had a great team they have had the Spurs. I think there's a difference between problems in the playoffs and having to get over on the Spurs.

Is a deep bench the answer to the Spurs? I don't think so, but let's say it was I think 9 should be enough for the playoffs. Memphis was 12 deep and they couldn't win a playoff game, those are problems.

Sorry Mainstreet lol!

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

IMO this subject has just about been beaten to death. Besides Stern, the Suns had problems in the playoffs because they did not have enough depth that could get off the bench and actually contribute. I hope the Suns enter this season towards winning a Championship as well, but to get there they need more depth. I'd rather see the Suns concentrate more on developing depth that trying to obtain the top seed.

On that we can agree. If you got em, use em. If they can't/won't run, use em as the change of pace crew. Just use em!

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Cheese, usually we are on the same page but you're off today.

The Suns haven't really had "problems" in the playoffs, in the years where they realistically had a great team they have had the Spurs. I think there's a difference between problems in the playoffs and having to get over on the Spurs.

Is a deep bench the answer to the Spurs? I don't think so, but let's say it was I think 9 should be enough for the playoffs. Memphis was 12 deep and they couldn't win a playoff game, those are problems.

That wasn't cheesebeef....

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns haven't really had "problems" in the playoffs, in the years where they realistically had a great team they have had the Spurs. I think there's a difference between problems in the playoffs and having to get over on the Spurs.

Is a deep bench the answer to the Spurs? I don't think so, but let's say it was I think 9 should be enough for the playoffs. Memphis was 12 deep and they couldn't win a playoff game, those are problems.

I just don't see TD as this Goliath the Suns can't overcome. I don't attribute the Suns loss to SA at the feet of TD. IMO a lack of playable depth hurt the Suns especially in game 5 against SA. I also wished the Suns could have mixed it up more with the likes of players like Bowen and Horry without getting their rotation players in foul trouble or worse yet suspended. If the Suns have more depth they can more easily foul and challenge shots without worry about players fouling out without a qualified replacement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese, usually we are on the same page but you're off today.

The Suns haven't really had "problems" in the playoffs, in the years where they realistically had a great team they have had the Spurs. I think there's a difference between problems in the playoffs and having to get over on the Spurs.

huh? what did I say?

 

[Mainstreet]

huh? what did I say?

I think he might have been talking to me but somehow your name was put out there.

 

[elindholm]

By the same token, the Spurs have never paid the luxury tax in order to field a championship team.

Actually they did in 2006 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#16), but granted, it wasn't very much.

On the other hand, the Spurs don't overpay their players -- look at the contracts for Parker and Ginobili, both of which are downright bargains considering what those players bring to the table. If you aren't able to budget so craftily, you have two choices: pay luxury tax, or accept a roster with one or two critical holes.

 

[azirish]

The real trick is to draft guys who aren't interested in money.

Back in 2004, the Suns could not eve get Manu to talk to them before he signed a new contract with the Spurs of six years at $52 million. That was only $2 million more than JJ was asking for and that was before JJ had done anything. The problem was that $52 million was not fair market value or even close (If he had received $60 to $65 million over six like he should have, the Suns would have realized that $50 million for JJ would have made sense).

Oberto opted out and signed a fairly low contract considering what is being offered some of the other bigs in the market this year.

BTW, one key to the Spurs approach is that they are prepared to let guys leave. The Suns panic signing last year when they extended Diaw for well above market was the kind of error the Spurs don't make.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

The Suns panic signing last year when they extended Diaw for well above market was the kind of error the Spurs don't make.

It's easy to call the Diaw signing a mistake, but every last one of us would have been calling for Sarver's head (even more than usual, anyway) if he let Diaw walk. Remember, he was coming off a playoff run where he admirably filled in at center, put up some gaudy numbers, and singlehandedly won a few games for us. In retrospect it's certainly looking like a mistake, but I'd hardly call it a "panic signing".

 

[azirish]

It's easy to call the Diaw signing a mistake, but every last one of us would have been calling for Sarver's head (even more than usual, anyway) if he let Diaw walk. Remember, he was coming off a playoff run where he admirably filled in at center, put up some gaudy numbers, and singlehandedly won a few games for us. In retrospect it's certainly looking like a mistake, but I'd hardly call it a "panic signing".

Last year, I kept saying the Suns should be cautious and recommended waiting. Based on his style (he's not a big time shooter), I thought it highly unlikely to get a killer offer the Suns could not easily match. There was no reasonable justification for signing him to much above the MLE but everybody was still hysterical about the JJ signing including the Suns FO.

 

[myrondizzo]

It's easy to call the Diaw signing a mistake, but every last one of us would have been calling for Sarver's head (even more than usual, anyway) if he let Diaw walk. Remember, he was coming off a playoff run where he admirably filled in at center, put up some gaudy numbers, and singlehandedly won a few games for us. In retrospect it's certainly looking like a mistake, but I'd hardly call it a "panic signing".

it's kinda funny to go back a read this thread: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80163&highlight=diaw+extension

I couldn't find a complaint.

 

[azirish]

it's kinda funny to go back a read this thread: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80163&highlight=diaw+extension

I couldn't find a complaint.

Since everyone was talking about giving him $10 million, it seemed like that was actually an improvement.

Go look at the threads prior to the signing. There were only a few of us arguing that there was very little chance of Diaw getting an above the MLE offer and it would be better to wait.

 

[Errntknght]

George,

Go look at the threads prior to the signing. There were only a few of us arguing that there was very little chance of Diaw getting an above the MLE offer and it would be better to wait.

George, this is what you said in the thread myrondizzo gave a link to.

This is pretty close to what I have expected for months. $40 million was probably too low considering that Barbosa got $33; but $50 million was still pretty steep for a center who averages only .19 rpm. $45 million feels like a reasonable value and makes Boris tradeable if it becomes necessary (a sad but true aspect of every signing). What is more important, it takes away a potentially significant distraction.

It sure doesn't sound like someone who strongly advocated keeping the distraction in place. Actually, I think we established once before that you did not advocate letting Diaw become an RFA on this board - I think you admitted that you never posted that sentiment but insisted that you thought it. In fact, I don't recall anyone staunchly backing the idea that we should not extend Boris last summer. It was mentioned that it could work out for the best but as for anyone eager to take the risk, that I don't remember.

 

[azirish]

I've admitted that I did not fight the tide toward entension hard enough. Frankly I'll admit that getting attacked repeatedly gets tiring and I sort of went along after the fact because it was the popular thing to do. I was wrong and I'm totally ashamed.

 

[myrondizzo]

i just thought that it was a funny read. nobody was claiming doom and gloom. so it's kinda funny that now that a year has gone by coach D is the dumb one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've admitted that I did not fight the tide toward entension hard enough. Frankly I'll admit that getting attacked repeatedly gets tiring and I sort of went along after the fact because it was the popular thing to do. I was wrong and I'm totally ashamed.

George, your last name wouldn't be Bush, would it?

 

[BC867]

I agree with Eric - the Suns just don't seem to have winning a title at the top of their priority list. The Diamondbacks definitely mortgaged their future to win a title, and I don't see many people regretting that after seeing the championship banner raised at BOB.

Do whatever it takes, if you ask me - this franchise has gone close to forty years without a title. It's about time they made that one last push while they are so close...

"I second that emotion."