Ric Bucher on B.S. Report: Insight on Sarver

[fordronken]

The trade of the pick to Chicago was not a money saver. Well, it was, but in a different way. That was the summer we wanted to use all of our cap room. So the team targeted Deng or Igoudala, thought they'd both be gone, so they traded the pick-- figuring signing a guy for just above the mid level (after Nash) would be more valuable than whoever was left on the board. They signed Q, and the rest is history.

The problem was that they agreed to a trade before the draft-- figuring they knew what would happen. But the draft can be tricky, so it was a stupid decision. But that particular trade wasn't about saving money-- other than so that they could spend it otherwise. They also figured Chicago would keep sucking. So that pick falling to 21 was unfortunate.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Ah, but what good Rondon, Deng, and Rodriguez be warming the bench...

Right..because Deng and Rondo are on the same level as Marks and Strawberry...there's no way DAntoni would ever play them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Right..because Deng and Rondo are on the same level as Marks and Strawberry...there's no way DAntoni would ever play them.

what he is saying, is that Deng might have sat the bench when he was a rookie. Obviously not now, we know what he can do.

 

[elindholm]

Can you refute any of the points Bucher makes here about the Suns?

You're joking, right?

You did that because you thought he would sell more tickets than Shawn Marion, and he would sell more merchandise than Shawn Marion.

Merchandise sales are shared league-wide, or at least most of them are. And the Suns were already selling out most of their home games, so there is no difference in ticket sales.

And, between not having to re-up Marion and Marcus Banks' contract, he was thinking, This is actually a moneymaker!

Sarver's math is better than that. There was never an obligation to re-up Marion, and O'Neal's contract will cost the Suns more than Marion and Banks put together over the long run. When you figure in the inevitable luxury tax bill in O'Neal's last year, 2009-10, when the team probably won't even be any good, the extra cost is even clearer.

'Our defense is gonna be better?' COME ON! Just don't insult my intelligence, that's all I ask.

Bucher insults his own intelligence. The Suns' defense in the half-court set is already better, and that's with the team still not knowing what it's doing yet. Their overall defense has been worse, mainly because of the jump in turnovers and the resulting fast-break points (which also skews the FG%). And defensive rebounding, which is a part of defense, is overwhelmingly better.

As I said before, basically everything he said is wrong. Since I'm assuming you were already aware of everything I outlined above, I don't know why you asked me to spell it out.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Anyone who thinks the Suns made the Shaq deal for merchandising is ridiculous and ought to be beaten over the head with various deli meats.

Does Shaq increase ticket sales? No, all the games were already sell outs. He may increase the price of a scalped ticket, but that doesn't help the Suns?

Really? Because I continue to get calls from U.S. Airways employees trying to get me to buy tickets. Don't be so naive.

Does Shaq increase merchandise sales? Probably a bit, but how much more merchandise can the Suns sell? There's purple and orange jerseys in every arena across the country. Furthermore, I'm nearly positive that merchandise sales are divided up across the league, so it doesn't matter so much if your particular team is selling lots of jerseys.

Thats also funny, because right after the trade, Suns.com literaly turned into Planet Shaq. Under merchandise, it said "buy SHAQ gear". Under video it said "Watch Shaq video!" etc.

Does getting Shaq put the Suns on National TV more? Yes, but they were already on National TV a ton. I don't think they get any extra money for being on national tv (not directly anyhow), so again, this seems like a not very strong argument.

The Suns were doing amazingly well in selling anything they wanted to sell, so I don't think they got Shaq for sales purposes. They (D'Antoni, Kerr, Sarver) really thought it made the team better.

Once again, dont be so naive. Sarver doesn't know jack about basketball (read 07 seconds or less). He asked D'Antoni if it was plausible to send in a Sun to take out one of the Lakers during the 2006 playoffs.

 

[Maligzar]

Really? Because I continue to get calls from U.S. Airways employees trying to get me to buy tickets. Don't be so naive.

I don't think you are being honest. The Suns have a consecutive sell-out streak going; and while you may be contacted for something in the future, it's hardly as if you are being hounded.

Thats also funny, because right after the trade, Suns.com literaly turned into Planet Shaq. Under merchandise, it said "buy SHAQ gear". Under video it said "Watch Shaq video!" etc.

So they aren't suppose to market a new player?

Once again, dont be so naive. Sarver doesn't know jack about basketball (read 07 seconds or less). He asked D'Antoni if it was plausible to send in a Suns to take out one of the Lakes during the 2006 playoffs.

It was Kerr and D'Antoni's decision. Sarver just agreed to pay the money.

Maybe instead of calling other people naive you should take off that tinfoil hat?

 

[da_suns_fan]

I don't think you are being honest. The Suns have a consecutive sell-out streak going; and while you may be contacted for something in the future, it's hardly as if you are being hounded.

Only if you would say being called at home and at work on multiple occasions is being "hounded".

So they aren't suppose to market a new player?

Is that what you call it? Funny that we didn't see:

"BUY HILL GEAR!"
"SEE BANKS PHOTOS!"
"WATCH THOMAS VIDEO!"

You can't see it anymore (they took away the intro), but it was so class-less.

Anyone else dissapointed that the Suns.com "lockeroom" interactive page was just a big advertisement for Right Guard etc.?

My favorite was how one of D'Antoni's emails said "YOUR AD HERE!!!"

It was Kerr and D'Antoni's decision. Sarver just agreed to pay the money.

Maybe instead of calling other people naive you should take off that tinfoil hat?

Give me a freaking break!

Did you ever ask WHY the Heat's owner called our owner to get this trade going?

Why didn't THEIR GM call OUR GM? Thats usually how these things work.

The Miami Heat front office flat out PLAYED ours. Their owner called up Sarver and told him how much his franchise value would increase with Shaq so Sarver would pressure Kerr to get the deal done.

I can see it now:

"At least talk to Mike about it."

Then they refused to have our doctors fly to Miami, instead opting to send Shaq here for his pre-trade medical inspection.

Then they conveniently leaked to media what was going on to put pressure on the Suns to make the trade.

I feel bad for Kerr. I don't think he ever thought this was a good idea.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Did you ever ask WHY the Heat's owner called our owner to get this trade going?


Why didn't THEIR GM call OUR GM? Thats usually how these things work.

Does it really matter? Same thing happened with Memphis and the Pau trade. Do you think that LA is complaining?

The Miami Heat front office flat out PLAYED ours. Their owner called up Sarver and told him how much his franchise value would increase with Shaq so Sarver would pressure on Kerr to get the deal done.

Yeah, you want to back up that ridiculous statement?

Then they refused to have our doctors fly to Miami, instead opting to send Shaq here for his pre-trade medical inspection.

You think this is a big deal? I would rather Shaq have his physical here with our equipment in our environment, wouldn't you?

Then they conveniently leaked to media what was going on to put pressure on the Suns to make the trade.

Another baseless claim. Wanna back that one up too?

I feel bad for Kerr. I don't think he ever thought this was a good idea.

I don't. Don't you remember all of the rumblings from Kerr wanting to make our team better in the low post, and more prepared for the playoffs?

 

[Chaplin]

Only if you would say being called at home and at work on multiple occasions is being "hounded".




Is that what you call it? Funny that we didn't see:

"BUY HILL GEAR!"
"SEE BANKS PHOTOS!"
"WATCH THOMAS VIDEO!"

You can't see it anymore (they took away the intro), but it was so class-less.

Anyone else dissapointed that the Suns.com "lockeroom" interactive page was just a big advertisement for Right Guard etc.?

My favorite was how one of D'Antoni's emails said "YOUR AD HERE!!!"




Give me a freaking break!

Did you ever ask WHY the Heat's owner called our owner to get this trade going?

Why didn't THEIR GM call OUR GM? Thats usually how these things work.

The Miami Heat front office flat out PLAYED ours. Their owner called up Sarver and told him how much his franchise value would increase with Shaq so Sarver would pressure Kerr to get the deal done.

I can see it now:

"At least talk to Mike about it."

Then they refused to have our doctors fly to Miami, instead opting to send Shaq here for his pre-trade medical inspection.

Then they conveniently leaked to media what was going on to put pressure on the Suns to make the trade.

I feel bad for Kerr. I don't think he ever thought this was a good idea.

I'm trying to figure out what bizarro world you're living in. Sounds like you were one of those that hated the trade from the beginning and now that things are starting to look a little better, you're trying to justify your hatred with "facts" that really aren't facts.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Does it really matter? Same thing happened with Memphis and the Pau trade. Do you think that LA is complaining?

Yeah, you want to back up that ridiculous statement?

You think this is a big deal? I would rather Shaq have his physical here with our equipment in our environment, wouldn't you?


Another baseless claim. Wanna back that one up too?


I don't. Don't you remember all of the rumblings from Kerr wanting to make our team better in the low post, and more prepared for the playoffs?

Don't tell me....tell Marc Stein:

Sources say that the Suns' original arrangement with the Heat called for Phoenix's medical experts to fly to Miami to covertly examine O'Neal on Wednesday in Florida as opposed to bringing Shaq to the desert.
But those plans changed when the advanced nature of the trade talks were revealed online Tuesday night by The Miami Herald, leading some at US Airways Center to believe that the deal was leaked to the newspaper in hopes of locking the Suns into the trade.

Phoenix still had the right to back out of the deal Wednesday had Shaq's physical examination scared the Suns off. Kerr has said he was prepared to do just that "unless I felt really good about it from a medical standpoint." But it would have been a much bigger scandal if the trade had been aborted after O'Neal was flown in.

 

[da_suns_fan]

The move would have left Miami on the hook for a large portion of the contract. So Arison, instead, called Phoenix owner Robert Sarver and discussions started that eventually led to O'Neal being traded to the Suns for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks.
"We had a meeting about where we're headed," Riley said. "We were not interested in that time (of Cuban's initial call) of doing anything. The other call came and then the next day, Micky called Sarver."

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...called+Robert+Sarver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Don't tell me....tell Marc Stein:

You said, (or at least implied) that the Miami front office leaked the story. You don't know that for sure. All we know is that the Miami Herald reported it.

It isn't uncommon that owners talk to each other. I should have clariifed when I wanted to know, how you know, that the owner brought up how much it would increase the franchise's value if we traded for Shaq. Gotta transcript of the conversation? What about a tape recorded conversation.

You are taking articles from the internet, and then adding your own facts to try and support your argument.

 

[da_suns_fan]

GREAT ARTICLE

Many experts and analysts are busy discussing the on the court impact Shaquille O'Neal will have on the Phoenix Suns now that he's officially been traded from the Miami Heat. I'd like to examine the effect the one person mega corporation will have on the business of the Suns.

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Shaquille O'Neal's current contract does not expire until the end of the 2009-10 NBA season. He's scheduled to make $20M per year. He is the third highest paid player in the NBA (behind Kevin Garnett and Michael Finley).
Shawn Marion is making $16,440,000 this season and unless he opts out and terminates his current contract, he'll make $17,180,00 before his current deal expires. Marion is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA.
Marcus Banks is signed through the end of the 2010-11 season and is making $3,888,000, $4,176,000 next season, $4,464,000 for the 2009-10 season and $4,752,000 for the 2010-11 season.

So if you're the Suns, you're on the hook for Shaq for one more season than you would have been with Marion (assuming the Suns and Marion parted ways at the end of next season), but you remove Marcus' Banks horrific contract from your books because that contract extends a season beyond Shaq's contract.

The Phoenix Suns have a payroll of $71M - 11th highest in the NBA.

But the real impact of Shaquille O'Neal on the Phoenix Suns will come off the court. Shaq is a brand name worth millions of dollars. He's the biggest endorsement star the Suns have had since Charles Barkley. Shaq has endorsement deals with Li-Ning and Vitamin Water just to name a few and he's starred in Super Bowl ads and ESPN commercials. His face is recognized around the world. According to Sports Illustrated's "Fortunate 50" list, Shaq is the 4th highest paid athlete in North America earning nearly $35M a year from his contract ($20M) and endorsements ($15M). I saw first hand how big he is in China when I was there in September. Li-Ning, China's largest sports shoe and apparel company, has his picture plastered everywhere.

When Shaq went from Los Angeles to Miami, he was worth nearly 4,000 tickets a night as the team was finally able to move upper bowl seats that had sat vacant prior to his arrival. At $45 a ticket, he generated an additional $7.4M for the Heat. Shaq jerseys flew off the shelves and TV and radio ratings skyrocketed for the Heat.

Shaq is also one of the most charitable players in the NBA so the positive PR he brings to his team cannot be underestimated. Suns owner Robert Sarver is amongst the most community minded owners in the NBA, so having "Shaq-a-claus" as an ambassador of goodwill in his community will be a wonderful asset.
By season's end, the Phoenix Suns will have a streak of 120 straight sell outs. The Suns would have sold those games out regardless of whether or not Shaq was traded to the Suns. But the most important factor about this trade that is not being discussed is that the Suns, like many NBA teams, are sending out letters to their season ticket holders this week asking these customers to plunk down thousands of dollars to reserve tickets for next season. The Suns goal is to renew at least 90% of their season ticket holders.

Its no secret that the economy has declined sharply in recent months and Phoenix has been hit very hard because of the decline of the real estate market. So people are watching their disposable income as close as ever.

But now the Suns will send out their season ticket renewal packets with one of the most recognizable faces in sports inviting customers to renew. Yes Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire are two of the most exciting stars in the NBA, but Shaq's bigger than life personna may be just the tonic the Suns need to hit their agressive 90% renewal mark. Two premium seats to watch the Suns play starting next year will cost you over $120K.

The most important seats to sell will be the 504 floor-area seats the Suns have that are priced as high as $1500.00 per game. Prior to this season, the Suns had 125 floor area seats instead of 504 seats so by adding the extra seats, they've added $10M to the revenues. Shaq is a household name and he draws the people who will pay the big bucks for these seats. Just like he did in Los Angeles and just like he did in Miami.

Sponsors who may have been on the fence before, may now also be tempted to link their brand to the Suns and Shaq. I'd be willing to bet the team picks up several new sponsors because of Shaq. The Heat signed $2M in new sponsorships when Shaq arrived in Miami from the Los Angeles Lakers.

TV ratings and radio ratings will go through the roof in Phoenix because people will tune in to watch Shaq and see how this experiment works out. When ratings go up, teams are able to command more money for sponsorships.

You can expect the Suns to sell a load of Shaquille O'Neal Phoenix Suns jerseys the rest of this season. Just like when Kevin Garnett was traded to Boston and when Allen Iverson was traded to Denver, jersey sales of star players spike when superstars change uniforms.
The Suns have the best website in the NBA. Traffic to the website will increase drastically with Shaq's arrival. The team has already put up plenty of Shaq-related content and is carrying his press conference live on the site. Can you say new sponsors??

And last but not least, Shaquille O'Neal will change the franchise value of the Phoenix Suns. Robert Sarver purchased the Suns for $401M back in 2004. Before this trade, Forbes estimated the Suns to be worth $449M, making them the 8th most valuable NBA franchise. But because Shaquille O'Neal is a one man mega corporation and his name brings such visibility to the team he plays for, I'd be willing to bet that Shaq's arrival adds anywhere from $25M - $50M to the franchise value of Sarver's team. Some experts noted that when Heat owner Mickey Arison acquired Shaq, the franchise value increased by $40M.

So talk all you want about how Shaq's half court game will blend with the up-tempo style Steve Nash and the rest of the Suns like to play. But the one thing that is crystal clear is that the arrival of Shaquille O'Neal in Phoenix will mean BIG business for the Suns. He will certainly open up doors with companies and countries (China) that the Suns couldn't open previously. While Steve Nash is the reluctant superstar, Shaquille O'Neal has a magnetic, outgoing personality perfect for team marketers.

Think ANY of that got mentioned to our frugal owner by Miami's owner?

 

[Chaplin]

GREAT ARTICLE


Think ANY of that got mentioned to our frugal owner by Miami's owner?

What's your argument? That Shaq was acquires solely because of his ability to sell tickets? That obviously is naive, if that's the case. The problem is that you're severely overblowing everything and not paying attention to all the other arguments people are putting forth.

But it is definitely a factor. Let me see, a season ticket renewal package with Shaq on it vs. one with Marion on it. Hmm, you think potential season ticket holders might think twice about renewing knowing that the team would be exactly the same next season, especially since our hands were tied financially and we couldn't bring new players in, and would have a difficult time trading?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

GREAT ARTICLE


Think ANY of that got mentioned to our frugal owner by Miami's owner?

No. Again, because none of it really applies. Shaq can't add 4k in ticket sales, WE ARE ALREADY SOLD OUT. Merchandise is split proportionally among all teams.

How else do you expect Sarver to make money on Shaq?? It's not like he gets a % of his endorsements....

 

[da_suns_fan]

No. Again, because none of it really applies. Shaq can't add 4k in ticket sales, WE ARE ALREADY SOLD OUT. Merchandise is split proportionally among all teams.

How else do you expect Sarver to make money on Shaq?? It's not like he gets a % of his endorsements....

Grow up.


http://www.nba.com/suns/tickets/arena.html

Pick a game....any game.

Tickets are still available. SEASON tickets are sold out.

Not to mention the Suns are going for a 90% season ticket renewal rate.

Those goals were already met before the Shaq trade?

Thats amazing!

Put down the kool-aid. You need to look at the source of your info before you believe it.

 

[elindholm]

I notice you didn't credit that article. Where did you get it, hoopsworld?

 

[Cheesewater]

Grow up.


http://www.nba.com/suns/tickets/arena.html

Pick a game....any game.

Tickets are still available. SEASON tickets are sold out.

Not to mention the Suns are going for a 90% season ticket renewal rate.

Those goals were already met before the Shaq trade?

Thats amazing!

Put down the kool-aid. You need to look at the source of your info before you believe it.

I picked any game. The Houston Rockets visit. Sold out. No two seats together through Ticketmaster. Next?

Edit: Also no two seats anywhere for the Nuggets visit.

 

[da_suns_fan]

What's your argument? That Shaq was acquires solely because of his ability to sell tickets? That obviously is naive, if that's the case. The problem is that you're severely overblowing everything and not paying attention to all the other arguments people are putting forth.

But it is definitely a factor. Let me see, a season ticket renewal package with Shaq on it vs. one with Marion on it. Hmm, you think potential season ticket holders might think twice about renewing knowing that the team would be exactly the same next season, especially since our hands were tied financially and we couldn't bring new players in, and would have a difficult time trading?

Are you talking about then or now?

Are you trying to make my point? Youre exactly right...whether the Suns win or not, a season ticket package with Shaq on it rather than Marion will be MUCH easier to sell...especially considering how there's no chance they can make anymore moves.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[da_suns_fan]

I picked any game. The Houston Rockets visit. Sold out. No two seats together through Ticketmaster. Next?

Edit: Also no two seats anywhere for the Nuggets visit.

What about all the other games? I thought they were ALL SOLD OUT???!!!!!

Edit: Just found two for Kings....gonna keep going.

 

[Cheesewater]

What about all the other games? I thought they were ALL SOLD OUT???!!!!!

Timberwolves game also sold out.

You said "Pick a game....any game."

Mavs game sold out. Warriors sold out. Blazers...sold out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Grow up.


http://www.nba.com/suns/tickets/arena.html

Pick a game....any game.

Tickets are still available. SEASON tickets are sold out.

Not to mention the Suns are going for a 90% season ticket renewal rate.

Those goals were already met before the Shaq trade?

Thats amazing!

Have single ticket prices increased since Shaq? Nope.

Put down the kool-aid. You need to look at the source of your info before you believe it.

Says the person quoting Marc Stein and treating it like gospel.

 

[da_suns_fan]

I notice you didn't credit that article. Where did you get it, hoopsworld?

Nope...Sports Business Radio:http://www.sportsbusinessradio.com/node/1555



Here's some more:

UPDATE: I dug up this interview we did on SBR with Miami Heat GM Randy Pfund from 2004 - the week the Heat acquired Shaq from the Lakers. Interesting insight as to how the trade was made and Shaq's immediate impact on the business of the Heat in the days after the trade was made.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Timberwolves game also sold out.

You said "Pick a game....any game."

Mavs game sold out. Warriors sold out. Blazers...sold out.

LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I checked those games too...found tickets for every single one.

 

[az1965]

what he is saying, is that Deng might have sat the bench when he was a rookie. Obviously not now, we know what he can do.

Yep... unfortunately we did not even give us that chance by keep selling the picks. By now at least we would have had a decent & cheap (*cough* Banks *cough*) back up point guard.