Ric Bucher on B.S. Report: Insight on Sarver

[D-Dogg]

What? That's a completely reasonable basketball question.

haha

 

[HooverDam]

This is one of the biggest fair-weather towns in the Nation. This has been well documented.

---------

Once again, youve got it COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Kerr and D'Antoni DID NOT approach Sarver!!!!!!

Miami's owner called Sarver. Sarver approached Kerr and Mike!!!! This has been PROVEN already!!!

Im done with this. Its like talking to a wall.

To your first point, Phoenix generally is a fairweather town, but the Suns did sell out nearly every year in the 1990s. Like I said, this is a Suns town, when they're going to the playoffs every year, selling tickets and merch isn't a problem. The Cardinals, D'Backs and Coyotes can't have too many down years in a row, with the Suns, its a different story. If you don't realize that, you're probably new to the Valley.

To your second point, again, you've missed the mark entirely. It doesn't matter in what order the contact happened. Miami's owner could've called me first, then I could've sent smoke signals to Chaplin, who then morse coded Cheesewater, who then sent an email to Robert Sarver- who cares? The point is, Sarver felt, after talking to Kerr and D'Antoni, that it was the best basketball move.

Why is this hard to grasp? It shouldn't be. Sarver fielded a call, talked to his basketball people, they said "yes, that makes us better" and Sarver did it.

Take off your tinfoil hat. There's no yeti, JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald, we did actually land on the moon in 1969, and the Suns really thought bringing in Shaq made them a better team.

 

[Chaz]

This just in.......

Professional basketball is a business.



I take Bucher with a grain of salt or two.
He never liked the Shaq trade and said on the radio last friday that the Suns are done, won't win anything, and we can stick a fork in them.

The final result may be bad but so far Shaq's health is pretty good and they have only played 11 games when after the trade most people agreed it would take 10-15 games to get an idea of how good they could be.

 

[The_Matrix]

He'res an article from the start of last season.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0902sunsbiz0902.html

Ticket sales soar for Suns
'Spectacular' renewal rate has team expecting many sellouts this season

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 2, 2006 12:00 AM

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns organization and its fans have shown that they expect something big this season.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The franchise is saying so with its annual preseason marketing campaign starting this weekend with the theme, "Eyes on the Prize." The basketball team often aims high but it is rare for the business side to match the optimism.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns' fans are right in line with the notion, snatching up tickets to a point that Phoenix could sell out several games before the season starts. The Suns' season ticket holders have renewed at a 93 percent rate, which Suns President and Chief Operating Officer Rick Welts said ranks third in the league and is well above the league's 85 percent target. With about 2,000 new season tickets sold, Phoenix has more than 13,000 "season ticket equivalents" (a term that accounts for how many seats are completely sold for every game, including partial-season packages) sold for the coming season.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The lower bowl is sold out.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Spectacular, there's no other word to describe it," Welts said of the club's off-season business. "It's really a carryover from last summer."[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns remain in the league's top five for new season ticket sales despite average price increases of 9.4 percent in 2005 and 11.3 percent this year.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The tally for the 2006-07 season is the most the Suns have sold since the 2000-01 season hit 14,100, a figure Welts thinks could be toppled this year. When combined with all 88 suites being sold out for a second straight year, about 15,000 of US Airways Center's 18,422 seats project to be filled before the team begins group sales and single-game ticket sales[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"When we go on public sale, for the first time since I've been here, we'll have games sell out before the season starts," said Welts, entering his fifth season in Phoenix.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Single-game ticket sales are expected to begin in either late September or early October. The Suns sold out 18 of 41 home games last season and 26 in 2004-05.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The high rate of season ticket renewal, partly attributable to a customer relations management department, included a 97 percent renewal rate among the group most affected by higher prices. The 600 seats in the permanent seating's first six rows between each baseline went from $125 to $175 apiece to create a club for those patrons, much like the Courtside Club added three years ago.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Many NBA arenas' designs cater to those fans but it was more difficult for the structure of the 14-year-old US Airways Center. The Suns are turning the arena restaurant, il Palazzetto, into a club for those fans. Construction is nearly complete with an expanded interior area and an extended patio and canopy along Jefferson Street, a facet that made it attractive for a yet-to-be-announced sponsor.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns' sponsorship sector, which ranks third in the league, continued to grow this summer with five new, multimedia deals done with Ford, Re/Max, Safe Auto, Dex and Stoudemire's Downtown restaurant. The Suns have handshake deals with another 10 companies, a significant jump for a franchise that has half of the league's average number of companies but still ranks in the top three for sponsorship revenue.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]________________________________________________________________[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]That last paragraph is important. Shaq has made the Suns' TV/Radio/Internet ratings skyrocket. Anyone remember ESPN talking about their rating for Shaq's first game, Lakers vs. Suns? It was one of most watched regular season games ever or something like that. Imagine the new sponsorship deals Sarver can cut: from stadium billboards to increasing prices for TV and Radio ads or just something simple like "RE/MAX, THE OFFICIAL REAL ESTATE COMPANY OF SHAQUILLE O'NEAL AND THE PHOENIX SUNS!!!!"[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Sarver's math is better than that. There was never an obligation to re-up Marion, and O'Neal's contract will cost the Suns more than Marion and Banks put together over the long run. When you figure in the inevitable luxury tax bill in O'Neal's last year, 2009-10, when the team probably won't even be any good, the extra cost is even clearer.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]As I said before, basically everything he said is wrong. Since I'm assuming you were already aware of everything I outlined above, I don't know why you asked me to spell it out.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Let's look at the figures again. The Suns will pay Shaq $60 million the next three years. Let's say Marion realizes no one is going to pay him 17 million and picks up his player option. Then, we pay Marion/Banks a total of $50 million to finish out their contracts. Elindholm pointed out that Shaq forces the Suns over the salary cap in 2009-10 into luxury tax land. Well, either a resigned Marion or an expensive free agent replacement does the same.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It appears that Sarvers math skills are excellent. If Shaq increases the Suns' profits by more than $10 million over three years, the deal IS a moneymaker. Through the aforementioned sponsorship deals, increased TV/radio ratings, internet ads, can Sarver do it? Can he spin Shaq into more than $3.33 million a year of extra profit? I think he can. And, I think he's looking forward to turning Shaq into FAR MORE than $10 million. There was that article posted earlier in this thread that stated that the Heat's franchise value increased by $40 million once they got Shaq![/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There you have it. Why did Sarver approve this trade? Sure, basketball wise it's decent. Our chemistry is much better, our rebounding is much better, our perimeter defense is much worse, our offense is about the same except for more turnovers. But after the selling of draft picks/Kurt Thomas, moves that hurt the team's championship chances, why does Sarver approve this risky, controversial trade, claiming the desire to win a championship now? MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]When you're talking about Shaq's luxury tax payments/salary cap suicide/defensive issues, WHY DOES SARVER CARE when he's about to go out and sign 20 local companies to new sponsorship deals, increase his take from every TV commercial from the skyrocketing audience, hit that vaunted 90% season ticket reload rate, and raise prices for ad space on Suns.com? Inside Sarver's head: 90% money, 10% basketball.[/FONT]

 

[da_suns_fan]

He'res an article from the start of last season.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0902sunsbiz0902.html

Ticket sales soar for Suns
'Spectacular' renewal rate has team expecting many sellouts this season

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 2, 2006 12:00 AM

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns organization and its fans have shown that they expect something big this season.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The franchise is saying so with its annual preseason marketing campaign starting this weekend with the theme, "Eyes on the Prize." The basketball team often aims high but it is rare for the business side to match the optimism.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns' fans are right in line with the notion, snatching up tickets to a point that Phoenix could sell out several games before the season starts. The Suns' season ticket holders have renewed at a 93 percent rate, which Suns President and Chief Operating Officer Rick Welts said ranks third in the league and is well above the league's 85 percent target. With about 2,000 new season tickets sold, Phoenix has more than 13,000 "season ticket equivalents" (a term that accounts for how many seats are completely sold for every game, including partial-season packages) sold for the coming season.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The lower bowl is sold out.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Spectacular, there's no other word to describe it," Welts said of the club's off-season business. "It's really a carryover from last summer."[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns remain in the league's top five for new season ticket sales despite average price increases of 9.4 percent in 2005 and 11.3 percent this year.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The tally for the 2006-07 season is the most the Suns have sold since the 2000-01 season hit 14,100, a figure Welts thinks could be toppled this year. When combined with all 88 suites being sold out for a second straight year, about 15,000 of US Airways Center's 18,422 seats project to be filled before the team begins group sales and single-game ticket sales[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"When we go on public sale, for the first time since I've been here, we'll have games sell out before the season starts," said Welts, entering his fifth season in Phoenix.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Single-game ticket sales are expected to begin in either late September or early October. The Suns sold out 18 of 41 home games last season and 26 in 2004-05.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The high rate of season ticket renewal, partly attributable to a customer relations management department, included a 97 percent renewal rate among the group most affected by higher prices. The 600 seats in the permanent seating's first six rows between each baseline went from $125 to $175 apiece to create a club for those patrons, much like the Courtside Club added three years ago.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Many NBA arenas' designs cater to those fans but it was more difficult for the structure of the 14-year-old US Airways Center. The Suns are turning the arena restaurant, il Palazzetto, into a club for those fans. Construction is nearly complete with an expanded interior area and an extended patio and canopy along Jefferson Street, a facet that made it attractive for a yet-to-be-announced sponsor.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Suns' sponsorship sector, which ranks third in the league, continued to grow this summer with five new, multimedia deals done with Ford, Re/Max, Safe Auto, Dex and Stoudemire's Downtown restaurant. The Suns have handshake deals with another 10 companies, a significant jump for a franchise that has half of the league's average number of companies but still ranks in the top three for sponsorship revenue.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]________________________________________________________________[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]That last paragraph is important. Shaq has made the Suns' TV/Radio/Internet ratings skyrocket. Anyone remember ESPN talking about their rating for Shaq's first game, Lakers vs. Suns? It was one of most watched regular season games ever or something like that. Imagine the new sponsorship deals Sarver can cut: from stadium billboards to increasing prices for TV and Radio ads or just something simple like "RE/MAX, THE OFFICIAL REAL ESTATE COMPANY OF SHAQUILLE O'NEAL AND THE PHOENIX SUNS!!!!"[/FONT]




[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Let's look at the figures again. The Suns will pay Shaq $60 million the next three years. Let's say Marion realizes no one is going to pay him 17 million and picks up his player option. Then, we pay Marion/Banks a total of $50 million to finish out their contracts. Elindholm pointed out that Shaq forces the Suns over the salary cap in 2009-10 into luxury tax land. Well, either a resigned Marion or an expensive free agent replacement does the same.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It appears that Sarvers math skills are excellent. If Shaq increases the Suns' profits by more than $10 million over three years, the deal IS a moneymaker. Through the aforementioned sponsorship deals, increased TV/radio ratings, internet ads, can Sarver do it? Can he spin Shaq into more than $3.33 million a year of extra profit? I think he can. And, I think he's looking forward to turning Shaq into FAR MORE than $10 million. There was that article posted earlier in this thread that stated that the Heat's franchise value increased by $40 million once they got Shaq![/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There you have it. Why did Sarver approve this trade? Sure, basketball wise it's decent. Our chemistry is much better, our rebounding is much better, our perimeter defense is much worse, our offense is about the same except for more turnovers. But after the selling of draft picks/Kurt Thomas, moves that hurt the team's championship chances, why does Sarver approve this risky, controversial trade, claiming the desire to win a championship now? MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]When you're talking about Shaq's luxury tax payments/salary cap suicide/defensive issues, WHY DOES SARVER CARE when he's about to go out and sign 20 local companies to new sponsorship deals, increase his take from every TV commercial from the skyrocketing audience, hit that vaunted 90% season ticket reload rate, and raise prices for ad space on Suns.com? Inside Sarver's head: 90% money, 10% basketball.[/FONT]

:notworthy

 

[HooverDam]

:notworthy

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[elindholm]

He'res an article from the start of last season.

I can't for the life of me figure out why you're quoting this. It says that the Suns already had an astronomically high renewal rate before the trade. If that's true, how would the trade help?

Let's look at the figures again. The Suns will pay Shaq $60 million the next three years. Let's say Marion realizes no one is going to pay him 17 million and picks up his player option. Then, we pay Marion/Banks a total of $50 million to finish out their contracts. Elindholm pointed out that Shaq forces the Suns over the salary cap in 2009-10 into luxury tax land. Well, either a resigned Marion or an expensive free agent replacement does the same.

Yes, but why are you assuming that there would be a re-signed Marion or an expensive free agent replacement? The Suns will be rebuilding in the summer of 2009 -- that would have been true with or without the trade. If I'm even a relatively cost-conscious owner, I'm not taking on any big contracts that summer, because the team isn't going anywhere.

In fact that has been the biggest downside to this trade all along: It delays the Suns' inevitable rebuild by a year, and at a high financial cost as well.

It appears that Sarvers math skills are excellent. If Shaq increases the Suns' profits by more than $10 million over three years, the deal IS a moneymaker. Through the aforementioned sponsorship deals, increased TV/radio ratings, internet ads, can Sarver do it? Can he spin Shaq into more than $3.33 million a year of extra profit? I think he can.

Let's be honest and admit that neither one of us has any idea what kind of money is involved in local endorsements by sports figures. If you want to do some research and quote some actual numbers, be my guest, but "I think he can" isn't a valid argument. You keep talking about Sarver's "cut" from endorsements, but I doubt that such a cut exists in most cases. How much did the Bulls get from all of Jordan's Nike deals? Sarver owns the team, not the players.

There was that article posted earlier in this thread that stated that the Heat's franchise value increased by $40 million once they got Shaq!

Who cares about the Heat? Even bringing them up shows a lack of understanding of the issues.

Were the Heat already a contender? No.

Were they already selling out most of their games? No.

Did they already have one of the top renewal rates in the league? No.

Were they recently sold for a record amount? No.

Were they getting an O'Neal who was still an elite player? Yes.

What happened with the Heat has absolutely no bearing on what is happening with the Suns.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

These last 4 pages are the grossest ive ever read. We should be so lucky to argue amongst ourselves on the semantics of the term 'sold out.'

GO SUNS

 

[cly2tw]

I believe this Shaq trade will go down as the riskiest but smartest deal made in the NBA history, as we will win the championships with Shaq and make a lot of profit on top of that.

 

[da_suns_fan]

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Read it, its a grabber.

 

[HooverDam]

You must be registered for see images

Read it, its a grabber.

Ive read Animal Farm and 1984, what does that have to do with anything we're talking about here?

You're bent on proving a ridiculous point (that is, the Shaq deal was done only for financial reason) when that been disproven by multiple people multiple times.

Again, lets go over it:

1. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to sell out the arena" Why this is incorrect: The arena is already sold out, or nearly sold out for every game this year.

2. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to improve season ticket renewal rates". Proof that this is incorrect: The Suns already have an extremely high renewal rate and are the hottest ticket in town and have a very loyal fan base (especially relative to other Valley teams).

3. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to sell more merchandize and jerseys. This is 'proved' by the fact that Shaq was heavily featured on their website and in their marketing". Proof that this is incorrect: The Suns don't get all of the money from merchandise, so selling a lot of Shaq jersey's doesn't really help their bottom line. Furthermore, the Suns were already towards the top of the league in merchandise sales, so making a huge team changing move for that reason alone sounds improbable at best. Furthermore, of course the team would market Shaq, he's one of the biggest names in basketball of all time, and the trade was initially unpopular, so they wanted to try to change public opinion.

Did you have any other completely ridiculous 'points' that I missed?

 

[cly2tw]

Ive read Animal Farm and 1984, what does that have to do with anything we're talking about here?

You're bent on proving a ridiculous point (that is, the Shaq deal was done only for financial reason) when that been disproven by multiple people multiple times.

Again, lets go over it:

1. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to sell out the arena" Why this is incorrect: The arena is already sold out, or nearly sold out for every game this year.

2. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to improve season ticket renewal rates". Proof that this is incorrect: The Suns already have an extremely high renewal rate and are the hottest ticket in town and have a very loyal fan base (especially relative to other Valley teams).

3. Claim "The Suns got Shaq to sell more merchandize and jerseys. This is 'proved' by the fact that Shaq was heavily featured on their website and in their marketing". Proof that this is incorrect: The Suns don't get all of the money from merchandise, so selling a lot of Shaq jersey's doesn't really help their bottom line. Furthermore, the Suns were already towards the top of the league in merchandise sales, so making a huge team changing move for that reason alone sounds improbable at best. Furthermore, of course the team would market Shaq, he's one of the biggest names in basketball of all time, and the trade was initially unpopular, so they wanted to try to change public opinion.

Did you have any other completely ridiculous 'points' that I missed?

In particular, if the Shaq move were not to pan out on the basketball court, the speculated financial gains couldn't even be there! Geez!

 

[da_suns_fan]

Claim: Four legs good....two legs BETTER!!!!

FIFY!