Richard Soloman

[KingofCards]

I think this whole Soloman thing is weird.

Teams refusing to hire Green unless Soloman is not hired. Green quiting in MN supposedly to save Soloman.

Weird.

What is Green's infatuation with this guy and what is the apparent Ownership Hatred?

I know the history but it is weird.

For some reason I think of Billy Carter.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by KingofCards
What is Green's infatuation with this guy and what is the apparent Ownership Hatred?

I don't neccessarily think that it is hatred of the person by ownership, just a history of bad coaching. When owners or management have tried to have DG fire Solomon, he has said no, and in Minnesota, threatened to resign midseason. He has a poor track record as a coach, but for some reason, Green is incredibly loyal to him. I agree it is weird, but I think the weird part is why so loyal to a coach that probably is making it more difficult for you to win and save your own job?

 

[KingofCards]

Re: Re: Richard Soloman

Originally posted by lrk27
I agree it is weird, but I think the weird part is why so loyal to a coach that probably is making it more difficult for you to win and save your own job?

Yeah, that is exactly my point.

I don't understand the relationship. Green should just give the loser a nice house and pay his bills for him. I guess that is what he is doing, basically.

 

[red desert]

sounds eerily like Mac.

 

[Capital Card]

Originally posted by KingofCards
I think this whole Soloman thing is weird.


For some reason I think of Billy Carter.

Remember the TV show "Coach". I cant help but think of Jerry Van Dyke, and the tall blond guy. Both always seemed like total idiots, but were the head coach's top guys.

Hey, without Joe Green around, we needed someone else to blame everything on.

Go Cards!!!

 

[Northern Card]

Re: Re: Richard Soloman

Originally posted by Capital Card
Remember the TV show "Coach". I cant help but think of Jerry Van Dyke, and the tall blond guy. Both always seemed like total idiots, but were the head coach's top guys.

Go Cards!!!

But remember, that on the TV show they did eventually win a national University football championship.

 

[Second Deck]

I will give DG the benifit of the doubt. I don't think there was a worse staff in place than the one Mac had.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't understand the relationship.
As legend has it - Once upon a time, a highly paid executive at a Fortune 500 company (owned by a Jewish tycoon whose executive lineup was comprised mostly of Jews) was passed over for a big promotion because the owner/CEO "wanted a better ethnic mix" among his executives (i.e. more of a "WASP look").

It didn't take more than a day or two for the executive to walk away from a company he had served for nearly 2 decades and land an even higher-paying job with a competitor.

That individual was my late father, and I'm proud he did what he did.

There have been counter-rumors that the Vikings owner wanted the coaching staff to be "less skewed toward Blacks" and essentially ordered Green to fire Solomon for that reason. Denny declined. Denny then lost his job.

If the above story is true, good for Denny.

(Note - And if it turns out that down the road, Solomon screws up as DB coach, fire his ass!)

 

[Renz]

Does anyone have a link to information that Washington wouldn't hire Green if he brought Solomon with him? Or is that just a rumor?

 

[RLakin]

Well, if you know the history it’s pretty simple. They’re best friends. Green and Solomon went to school together at Iowa and have been close ever since. Green put him on his staff as linebackers coach and then moved him to secondary coach. As I pointed out in another thread, the Vikings went on to rank 20 or worse during 5 of the next 7 seasons and one of those “good” (2) years they ranked 19th. Green then moved him back to inside linebackers coach and Solomon shared double duty as director of player personnel. The first inside linebackers coach/director of player personnel that I can remember hearing of. Apparently Red McCombs (or should I call him “Racist Red” according to that absurd insinuation) felt the same and wanted Green to fire Solomon. Green refused, and things fell apart by the end of the 2001 season.
If you thought the 2003 or 1997 Raiders were dysfunctional, you should read up on the Vikings in the latter years of Green’s tenure (1999 in particular). A lot of those incidents (not counting Solomon’s $150,000 sexual harassment settlement in 1993) centered around Green’s good buddy. He frequently butted heads with defensive backs, young and old. One time he initiated a physical confrontation with a cornerback named Ramos McDonald. McDonald was cut by Green and Solomon three weeks after the incident. The players really lost respect for him and (somewhat) Green at that point. This was probably the last straw for McCombs in regards to Solomon, but Green wouldn’t fire his friend. So it should come as little surprise that the Redskins would make such a demand. Solomon’s reputation around the league is well known and any respected or well researched (i.e. not Rod Graves) NFL team exec would have made a similar demand. I like still like Green, but this guy is bad news. It’s also the first indication of who’s really running the show here in Arizona.

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by Renz
Does anyone have a link to information that Washington wouldn't hire Green if he brought Solomon with him? Or is that just a rumor?

Patrick Reusse, Minneapolis Star Tribune on Jan. 9th:

One restriction placed on Green during his Washington conversations
was this: Denny could not have his close friend, Richard Solomon, on his
coaching staff.

 

[imaCafan]

So this Soloman guy gonna ruin our chances of winning while Green is here???

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by imaCafan
So this Soloman guy gonna ruin our chances of winning while Green is here???

No, I think that’s overstating things a bit. It means he’s not going to help very much and I doubt many veteran DB’s will be lining up at the door to play for him. To me, Solomon’s hiring means two things, the talk of a new Dennis Green is just that and, moreover, this is very much Green’s and not Graves’ football operation.

 

[ajcardfan]

As Green has said, "The proof will be in the pudding". That's good enough for me. I'm not going to wring my hands over Solomon like some girl finding a zit on the end of her nose the morning of the prom. Let's see what happens on the field.

 

[football karma]

I am sure there were conversations in the negotiations on Solomon, either directly or indirectly.

I am sure Green wanted total control over his staff -- not an unreasonable request from a head coach.

It seems many Viking fans have placed everything wrong with the Vikings during the Green era squarely at the feet of this Solomon guy. I never realized that a position coach could screw up a team so badly.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by en fuego
I never realized that a position coach could screw up a team so badly.

Can you say Joe Green

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by RLakin
Solomon’s reputation around the league is well known and any respected or well researched (i.e. not Rod Graves) NFL team exec would have made a similar demand.

Why do you think that Rod Graves is not well respected or well researched ?

Have any evidence to support that or is it just your idea of a cheap shot ?

 

[Capital Card]

Is it possible Washington put in the condition of Green's not hiring Soloman because they knew he wouldn't take the position with that constraint?

I believe some overtures to Joe Gibbs had already been made prior to Denny Green's interview with Washington.

Was this just a way for the Redskins to comply with the NFL minority hiring guidelines while still hiring the guy they actually wanted in Joe Gibbs.

No matter what Soloman's fault's may be, I don't see one position coach being the sole liability of a team being successful or not.

I'm also not going to throw dirt on the man's coffin before he has even been given his Cardinal clip-board. Hell, I gave Buddy Ryan more leeway than this, and I thought he was the worst hire we have ever made the day I heard he was even being considered.

Go Cards!!!

Go Cards!!!

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
That individual was my late father, and I'm proud he did what he did.

Cool story Jeff.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by RLakin
Solomon’s reputation around the league is well known and any respected or well researched (i.e. not Rod Graves) NFL team exec would have made a similar demand. I like still like Green, but this guy is bad news. It’s also the first indication of who’s really running the show here in Arizona.

First of all, if this topic is so well known that it is being discussed on a messaged board, I tend to think Rod Graves knew about Richard Solomon. Dennis Green was going to be given full control of his staff here. He will not have full say in his roster and player personnel decisions. Don't think Denny has all the power just yet. And to imply that Rod Graves is not well respected is ridiculous. You can go office to office in this league and not find a more respected suit in the business.

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by nidan
Why do you think that Rod Graves is not well respected or well researched ?

Have any evidence to support that or is it just your idea of a cheap shot ?

Well researched. I don’t think Mr. Graves is well researched and I would point out that by his own admission he has made major miscalculations in regards to the NFL Draft (told AZ media that they were looking for McDougle there), free agency (told EVT that the Cards needed to be more proactive this season) and June 1st (where Graves said the Cards would find quality players but did not). There was precedent and reasons for each of these events. Most experts (and even Dave McGinnis) felt teams were doing a better job with the cap, therefore June 1st was not going to big as in years past, and it clearly wasn’t. Defensive ends are typically in great demand when it comes to the NFL draft and often drafted ahead of their projected spot (Cedric Jones in 1996, Jamal Reynolds in 2001, Dwight Freeney in 2002, and McDougle and Haynes last year.) And finally most did not think free agents would respond to “fair market offers” (Colvin) from the Cardinals and Graves . Graves’ concessions in regards to all three factors are evidence that he is fact under researched and if you needed even more evidence take a look at his Bears days when they drafted Rashan Salaam despite NFL scouts doubts over his speed. Graves’ justification was that (his words)“He’s fast enough.”
Given all this, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Mr. Graves has once again ignored or not bothered to look up the history of what many in Minnesota consider the worst assistant coach/ personnel man that they have ever had.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by RLakin
Well researched. I don’t think Mr. Graves is well researched and I would point out that by his own admission he has made major miscalculations in regards to the NFL Draft (told AZ media that they were looking for McDougle there), free agency (told EVT that the Cards needed to be more proactive this season) and June 1st (where Graves said the Cards would find quality players but did not). There was precedent and reasons for each of these events. Most experts (and even Dave McGinnis) felt teams were doing a better job with the cap, therefore June 1st was not going to big as in years past, and it clearly wasn’t. Defensive ends are typically in great demand when it comes to the NFL draft and often drafted ahead of their projected spot (Cedric Jones in 1996, Jamal Reynolds in 2001, Dwight Freeney in 2002, and McDougle and Haynes last year.) And finally most did not think free agents would respond to “fair market offers” (Colvin) from the Cardinals and Graves . Graves’ concessions in regards to all three factors are evidence that he is fact under researched and if you needed even more evidence take a look at his Bears days when they drafted Rashan Salaam despite NFL scouts doubts over his speed. Graves’ justification was that (his words)“He’s fast enough.”
Given all this, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Mr. Graves has once again ignored or not bothered to look up the history of what many in Minnesota consider the worst assistant coach/ personnel man that they have ever had.

Are you kidding me with this? Seriously. Yeah, it was completely Rod Graves' fault that four DEs went between 9 and 15 in the draft and that Philly traded up to get ahead of AZ for McDougle. As for Colvin, the Cards offered him above "fair market" and Colvin turned them down. Had nothing to do with Graves, his research or the money. Roosevelt Colvin did not want to play here. Simple as that. And Salaam, that's what happens when four RBs go in the top 20 and you want a RB at 21. But you must be seriously uninformed if you believe that in the NFL there is a single person with Rod Graves' authority and position who wouldn't "bother to look up the history" of someone with a questionable background and/or career. Solomon is the result of Green having final say on his staff. Graves hired Green. Green hired Solomon. If you don't like Solomon being here, point the finger at Mr. Green.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by lrk27
Are you kidding me with this? Seriously. Yeah, it was completely Rod Graves' fault that four DEs went between 9 and 15 in the draft and that Philly traded up to get ahead of AZ for McDougle. As for Colvin, the Cards offered him above "fair market" and Colvin turned them down. Had nothing to do with Graves, his research or the money. Roosevelt Colvin did not want to play here. Simple as that. And Salaam, that's what happens when four RBs go in the top 20 and you want a RB at 21. But you must be seriously uninformed if you believe that in the NFL there is a single person with Rod Graves' authority and position who wouldn't "bother to look up the history" of someone with a questionable background and/or career. Solomon is the result of Green having final say on his staff. Graves hired Green. Green hired Solomon. If you don't like Solomon being here, point the finger at Mr. Green.

Well said

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by lrk27
Are you kidding me with this? Seriously. Yeah, it was completely Rod Graves' fault that four DEs went between 9 and 15 in the draft and that Philly traded up to get ahead of AZ for McDougle. As for Colvin, the Cards offered him above "fair market" and Colvin turned them down. Had nothing to do with Graves, his research or the money. Roosevelt Colvin did not want to play here. Simple as that. And Salaam, that's what happens when four RBs go in the top 20 and you want a RB at 21. But you must be seriously uninformed if you believe that in the NFL there is a single person with Rod Graves' authority and position who wouldn't "bother to look up the history" of someone with a questionable background and/or career. Solomon is the result of Green having final say on his staff. Graves hired Green. Green hired Solomon. If you don't like Solomon being here, point the finger at Mr. Green.

You're missing the point. I'm not debating the decisions that Mr. Graves has made in the past. I think the results speak for themselves. My point is that there is a pattern of either ignoring, underestimating, or failing to realize certain NFL trends or common logic. Given the number of examples, my conclusion was the latter.
Logically speaking, I did not think that given the information on Solomon that any top notch (or well respected) NFL exec would allow Solomon to be on a coaching staff. The Washington Redskins seemed to agree. And for those who shun the notion of an exec. or ownership group demanding the resignation or denying the hiring of someone on a coaching staff, don't you wish the Bidwill's or Rod Graves would have done (what Washington seemed to want to do with Solomon) either with Joe Greene? I'd say yes.

 

[nidan]

I think it is simple, we hired Dennis Green he wanted Solomon.

You don't bring in a top level HC then ignore him on the staff he wants. This is a Dennis Green call not RG.

I don't agree with you about Rod Graves but then I have had the luxury of talking to him at some length. What you see as mistakes, I see as a longer term plan, partly because I have slightly (and I do mean only slightly, no digs or sarcasam intendtended) more info.

With a GM I think we need to see what happens over the next few years to really judge him.