Ricky Rubio agrees to deal with Suns

[Chaplin]

But the three wasnt an emphasis back then.

The Suns were routinely panned because NBA experts thought they took too many threes.

Not sure what is relevant about that. I guess if it's your speculation that quantity of shots affects percentage, but I'm not sure that quantifiable.

 

[Chaplin]

Yes, but...



That's incorrect. You can see for yourself here:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_top_10.html

Of course three-point shooting has gotten more important, and attempts per game have skyrocketed. But accuracy has stayed about the same.

My point is that Jordan was a great player in spite of being a poor three-point shooter, even by the standards of his time. Rubio brings enough to the table that he can be effective without being a shooter.

(Cue the morons accusing me of projecting Rubio to have an impact comparable to Jordan's.)

Is 33% "poor"?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes, but...



That's incorrect. You can see for yourself here:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_top_10.html

Of course three-point shooting has gotten more important, and attempts per game have skyrocketed. But accuracy has stayed about the same.

My point is that Jordan was a great player in spite of being a poor three-point shooter, even by the standards of his time. Rubio brings enough to the table that he can be effective without being a shooter.

(Cue the morons accusing me of projecting Rubio to have an impact comparable to Jordan's.)

The stats are interesting. Thank you for providing. And what happened in 82-83?!? Looks like everyone forgot how to shoot that year!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is 33% "poor"?

I think it’s below average at present but only slightly so. Isn’t league average like 34% or something?

 

[Yuma]

The stats are interesting. Thank you for providing. And what happened in 82-83?!? Looks like everyone forgot how to shoot that year!

I believe that was the Sixers year? If so, there were a LOT of dunks going down!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think it’s below average at present but only slightly so. Isn’t league average like 34% or something?

35.5% according the basketball reference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

35.5% according the basketball reference.

Wow even higher than I thought.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it’s below average at present but only slightly so. Isn’t league average like 34% or something?

Maybe, but I wouldn't consider Michael Jordan a "poor" 3-point shooter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe, but I wouldn't consider Michael Jordan a "poor" 3-point shooter.

By today’s standards he would be. And even back then I recall he wasn’t really considered a three point shooter. It’s what made his “shrug game” stand out . . . no one expected him to drop that many threes.

 

[elindholm]

And what happened in 82-83?!? Looks like everyone forgot how to shoot that year!

I hadn't noticed that, but yeah, that's bizarre. The league leader in three-point makes that season had 67, less than one per game.

 

[leclerc]

Last season, the Suns' point guard rotation at the beginning of last season was Isaiah Canaan, Jamal Crawford, Elie Okobo and De'Anthony Melton. This season, the Suns' point guard rotation will be Ricky Rubio, Tyler Johnson and Ty Jerome. That's an upgrade.

I did not get the memo about Okobo and Melton leaving. Is this Ty guy better than Okobo and Melton? Should we keep paying Tyler Johnson money? I think Amish Ty is on a bad contract, am I right? Should try to move him and keep Melton, and I don't care much for Booker yelling to Igor to take Melton out and put Elie in. That is punk behavior and not leadership. Melton plays D and could be a good combo guard if he puts in the work. I think Okobo is too small and too slow.

 

[Chaplin]

By today’s standards he would be. And even back then I recall he wasn’t really considered a three point shooter. It’s what made his “shrug game” stand out . . . no one expected him to drop that many threes.

But how can you apply today's standards to him? That hardly seems fair. If Jordan was in today's NBA, I'd imagine he'd have no problem raising that percentage, maybe even significantly raising it.

 

[Raindog]

Yes, but...

That's incorrect. You can see for yourself here:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_top_10.html

Of course three-point shooting has gotten more important, and attempts per game have skyrocketed. But accuracy has stayed about the same.

And this is totally logical to me. History has shown that very few NBA level players ever improve their shooting by a very measurable degree. By that point in a player's development, shooting ability is either in their skill set or it never will be.

Furthermore, shooting as a skill has a limited range of physical adaptability. No matter to what extent someone may train or practice it, it still has a ceiling as to what degree of proficiency can be accomplished. I would expect that in another 50 years, assuming other dynamics or rules of the game have not changed, those shooting percentages will be pretty close to what they are right now, in spite of being something that will continue to be emphasized as a primary basketball skill.

 

[Yuma]

I did not get the memo about Okobo and Melton leaving. Is this Ty guy better than Okobo and Melton? Should we keep paying Tyler Johnson money? I think Amish Ty is on a bad contract, am I right? Should try to move him and keep Melton, and I don't care much for Booker yelling to Igor to take Melton out and put Elie in. That is punk behavior and not leadership. Melton plays D and could be a good combo guard if he puts in the work. I think Okobo is too small and too slow.

Melton just needed a shot. He and Bridges were leading the rookies in steals and on the actual leader charts for the NBA in steals. Kinda hoping Melton makes the end of the bench.

 

[leclerc]

I'll party tonight (one glass of white wine please) because of the PG signing. JLo is not worth the max. Rubio is not a star but he'll make Booker and Ayton much better and that'll improve the rest of the team as well. More open looks. I hope they resign Oubre and keep the defensive mindset they had during their win streak (yes, you heard it, they had a win streak last year). It was truly awesome. They played like lanky dogs out there going after the ball and scoring quickly. Bridges, Oubre, Jackson, Melton, Holmes. Can't understand why they didn't sign Holmes. He was a great backup center and energy guy. I can't understand the decisions they make. But at least, finally, a point guard.

 

[Yuma]

I'll party tonight (one glass of white wine please) because of the PG signing. JLo is not worth the max. Rubio is not a star but he'll make Booker and Ayton much better and that'll improve the rest of the team as well. More open looks. I hope they resign Oubre and keep the defensive mindset they had during their win streak (yes, you heard it, they had a win streak last year). It was truly awesome. They played like lanky dogs out there going after the ball and scoring quickly. Bridges, Oubre, Jackson, Melton, Holmes. Can't understand why they didn't sign Holmes. He was a great backup center and energy guy. I can't understand the decisions they make. But at least, finally, a point guard.

JLO is probably worth the max! My wife would kill me!

 

[Ronin]

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But how can you apply today's standards to him? That hardly seems fair. If Jordan was in today's NBA, I'd imagine he'd have no problem raising that percentage, maybe even significantly raising it.

I agree. But the purpose of the original post wasn’t to denigrate Jordan but rather to show a player could be great with average or subpar three point shooting.

 

[leclerc]

I get why people are saying Rubio can't shoot, his 3pt shot needs work, but he is a good FT shooter. He's a career 83.8% FT shooter that has shot 86.5% over the last 4 years compared to 80.1% his first 4 years. So he struggles from distance but won't be a liability like Lonzo would be.

Hopefully he can get his 3pt shooting back up next year. He shot 35.2 in Utah 2 years ago and 31.1 last year from 3 but he's averaged 1.2 makes a game consistently over those 2 years, only averaging 0.2 attempts more last season. So it's not that much of a difference between the 2017-18 & 2018-19 seasons.

Here is a look at his stats the last 4 years, to get an idea of what we're getting. Link to view more here

You must be registered for see images attach

Ew, that's worse shooting that I thought. But as someone said, he's got passing, defense and leadership.

 

[Mainstreet]

I did not get the memo about Okobo and Melton leaving. Is this Ty guy better than Okobo and Melton? Should we keep paying Tyler Johnson money? I think Amish Ty is on a bad contract, am I right? Should try to move him and keep Melton, and I don't care much for Booker yelling to Igor to take Melton out and put Elie in. That is punk behavior and not leadership. Melton plays D and could be a good combo guard if he puts in the work. I think Okobo is too small and too slow.

Okobo or Melton leaving is speculation but the Suns realistically cannot keep all these point guards (distributors) so the Suns will need to clear room and salary somewhere.

I'd like to keep Tyler Johnson because he can play both guard positions and his expiring contract will give the Suns financial flexibility going forward.

Which point guard(s) the Suns move may have to do with their value to another team.

I really like Ty Jerome as a backup point guard so he will give the Suns needed depth there. He can play both guard positions as well.

I'm undecided which point guard I like the best between Okobo and Melton. Okobo will probably be the better offensive player but Melton brings defense.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree. But the purpose of the original post wasn’t to denigrate Jordan but rather to show a player could be great with average or subpar three point shooting.

What was the average back when he was playing? It's all a ratio, right? Higher percentage, more attempts. Lower percentage, less attempts.

I think you are right, a player can still be great with average or subpar three point shooting -- great big men of the past all can fit that criteria. But I just think Jordan is a bad example because back in the 80s and 90s, 33% wasn't subpar or average in the league. It was 92-93 when averages started rising above 33%.

In 91-92, he was definitely what we would consider below average at 3pt%, but in 92-93, he shot 35%, 94-95 50%, 95-96 43% and 96-97 37%. He started tapering off in his last season in Chicago, but he was getting up in age and it was the beginnings of the faster version of the league.

 

[Proximo]

I did not get the memo about Okobo and Melton leaving. Is this Ty guy better than Okobo and Melton? Should we keep paying Tyler Johnson money? I think Amish Ty is on a bad contract, am I right? Should try to move him and keep Melton, and I don't care much for Booker yelling to Igor to take Melton out and put Elie in. That is punk behavior and not leadership. Melton plays D and could be a good combo guard if he puts in the work. I think Okobo is too small and too slow.

Yes Gambo says Melton is for sure gone, and good chance okobo is too.

 

[jlove]

Okobo or Melton leaving is speculation but the Suns realistically cannot keep all these point guards (distributors) so the Suns will need to clear room and salary somewhere.

I'd like to keep Tyler Johnson because he can play both guard positions and his expiring contract will give the Suns financial flexibility going forward.

Which point guard(s) the Suns move may have to do with their value to another team.

I really like Ty Jerome as a backup point guard so he will give the Suns needed depth there. He can play both guard positions as well.

I'm undecided which point guard I like the best between Okobo and Melton. Okobo will probably be the better offensive player but Melton brings defense.

Between Okobo and Melton...hands down Melton. Better defender and facilitator than Okobo and can play both PG/SG.

 

[Yuma]

Yes Gambo says Melton is for sure gone, and good chance okobo is too.

I can see teams wanting Melton. Tough PG defender. You need that in situation in the playoffs when you are switching offense for defense, etc.

 

[1Sun]

Between Okobo and Melton...hands down Melton. Better defender and facilitator than Okobo and can play both PG/SG.

Okobo over Brunson turned out to be a huge mistake. Not as bad as Ulis over Brogdon, but still pretty darn bad.