Ring for KG or Nash?

[slinslin]

Although Kobe's answer should have been "Pau Gasol."

That would have been the answer to the question who he'd like to win a playoff game.

 

[nowagimp]

Hate him all you want, but I love that freaking attitude.

Kobe has a huge monkey on his back, I understand the attitude. I wasnt aware until recently that kobe hasnt even won a playoff series without shaq. After his trashing of shaq in the media, kobe has something to prove, and one championship probably doesnt do it.

 

[nowagimp]

Oh, and I'd much rather be feared. That's just me though.

Naaah! Danny Fortson was feared, not respected. Respect often includes fear, but not necessarily the other way around.

 

[BeeBeard]

Kobe has a huge monkey on his back, I understand the attitude. I wasnt aware until recently that kobe hasnt even won a playoff series without shaq. After his trashing of shaq in the media, kobe has something to prove, and one championship probably doesnt do it.

Yeah, Kobe has done absolutely nothing in the last 6 years without the big fella. Meanwhile, Shaq has already proved his point by winning another championship with a different All-Star swingman. In interviews and statements to the press, Shaq has tried to downplay any criticisms of Kobe ("wish him all the best" etc. etc.), but I haven't seen Kobe do the same. Bryant's pathological hyper-competitiveness (ala MJ) precludes him from ever saying something nice about an ex-teammate in any but the most canned and rehearsed scenarios. It's one aspect of Jordan's game and personality that Kobe would have been better-served not to plagiarize.

 

[D-Dogg]

Naaah! Danny Fortson was feared, not respected. Respect often includes fear, but not necessarily the other way around.

Fortson was feared because he was dirty.

Kobe is feared because he is an assassin. That comes with implicit respect.

 

[D-Dogg]

the last 6 years without the big fella.

6 years?

 

[nowagimp]

Fortson was feared because he was dirty.

Kobe is feared because he is an assassin. That comes with implicit respect.

Its like I said, respect is better than fear. The only thing that brings respect is skills, fear can have many reasons. Tim Duncan is respected rather than feared, that kind of skill set brings championships, the kind that kobe has been unable to achieve without shaq. If I was starting a team, a young TD(or shaq) who demands the double and passes out of it, would be a better choice than a young kobe.

 

[TucsonDevil]

For the record (I know I am late to the game). I agree with Linderbee, Kobe shows how classless he really is with his response. If Amare had said it, I would call it immaturity, not classless - since he still is pretty young. Amare has said some stupid things in the past, but has learned from those comments.

Also, was anyone as surprised as I was to see Timmy vote for Nash? I found that quite odd.

 

[BeeBeard]

6 years?

Oh yes, my bad. I forgot about the last, struggling gasps of those Lakers teams, when you guys had FOUR Hall of Famers on one team and couldn't get it done.

Don't worry, you have my sympathy. I got to watch some very mediocre Rockets teams that featured Barkley...Hakeem...Pippen...Drexler...

Of course, the other way to read it is that I'm predicting that the Lakers finally win their first playoff series without Shaq one or two seasons from now.

 

[D-Dogg]

The only thing that brings respect is skills,

Respect can have many reasons too, skills is not the sole thing. Outgoing people are respected (even a declining Shaq is respected for his personality, not his skills), outside efforts are respected (Mutumbo's charity work), Hustle, Attitude, etc.

And the Kobe/Shaq championship argument can be argued when both retire. Kobe right now has a legit title team around him that is young and will only get better. It's only been 3 years without Shaq. Tim Duncan didn't win a title for three years after Robinson too. Titles aren't easy to win, as you guys painfully know (not a dig at the Suns, an acknowledgement of how close you've come and how hard it is to have everything fall your way).

 

[nowagimp]

Also, was anyone as surprised as I was to see Timmy vote for Nash? I found that quite odd.

Tim Duncan is the consummate team player, the best passing big man in the game. I'll bet TD really values passing skills more than most of us know. I also expect that Duncan evalutates his peers on winning, and could probably never understand why KG was compared closely with him.

Did you notice how out of sorts Duncan was at the all star game? Duncan was looking to pass out of a double and no one was moving off ball. It was a one-on-one party and TD didnt seem to belong there. Duncans skill set, both offensively and defensively are geared towards team play. KG got alot of the "gunner or black hole vote", guys who like to play one-on-one.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You should want him to think like that. Who gives a crap who else wins. If you aren't winning, why do you care? Are you happy that Tim Duncan won a ring? That kG might? All that means is that you lost. As a fan I want cold blooded killers out there, with no remorse. Maybe that's just me, but I completely dig the attitude.

I was very happy when Elway and Favre won rings.

I will be happy if KG wins a ring, as long as he isn't playing the Suns when he does so.

Kobe's response is exactly why people call him KoMe. I would definitely feel the same way if Amare said that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

no one's scared of artest?

No Artest team makes the playoffs. He doesn't scare anyone but the fans.

 

[BeeBeard]

Kobe right now has a legit title team around him

What makes you say that? Please compellingly argue that this current group surrounding Kobe has done anything at all to show that their team is a contender "right now."

( Remember not to defer to the future, either, because any team "will be" a title contender in the future, including Portland, Cleveland, etc. We're talking about "right now," as you put it. )

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh, and I'd much rather be feared. That's just me though.

fear eventually subsides and the bully gets beaten down. respect remains in perpetuity if you don't do anything to lose it and it carries you gracefully wherever you wish to go.

fear in the workplace works for a year. respect in the workplace works forever.

 

[nowagimp]

Respect can have many reasons too, skills is not the sole thing. Outgoing people are respected (even a declining Shaq is respected for his personality, not his skills), outside efforts are respected (Mutumbo's charity work), Hustle, Attitude, etc.

And the Kobe/Shaq championship argument can be argued when both retire. Kobe right now has a legit title team around him that is young and will only get better. It's only been 3 years without Shaq. Tim Duncan didn't win a title for three years after Robinson too. Titles aren't easy to win, as you guys painfully know (not a dig at the Suns, an acknowledgement of how close you've come and how hard it is to have everything fall your way).

Respect in the NBA on the floor is just about skills. This discussion is about playing in the NBA right?

The team Kobe has around him right now is way better supporting cast than shaq ever had, he better be able to do something with it. Titles are hard to win, but a playoff series, cmon, thats a joke. Memphis hasnt won a playoff series, while utah, mavs, suns, clippers and yes even the warriors have. The idea that kobe couldnt win one for 3 years is a sobering fact about his ability to carry a team or be a team leader when it counts. Kobes leadership skills(or lack thereof) are obvious by his pissing and moaning about his teammates in public. Leaders dont blame failures on everyone else in public. Perhaps kobe is coming around, he's a better team player than he ever was, but its taken quite a while for those skills to develop(10+ years?).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

No Artest team makes the playoffs. He doesn't scare anyone but the fans.

Actually this is incorrect. Artest used to go to the playoffs regularly. He has only made it out of the first round 1 time.

Career playoff FG% 38.4%

That is absolutely terrible for a 6 year average. Epic choking there.

 

[nowagimp]

fear eventually subsides and the bully gets beaten down. respect remains in perpetuity if you don't do anything to lose it and it carries you gracefully wherever you wish to go.

fear in the workplace works for a year. respect in the workplace works forever.

Bingo, respect is far more valuable than fear. Anyone who prefers fear lacks experience in the real world.

 

[Renz]

What makes you say that? Please compellingly argue that this current group surrounding Kobe has done anything at all to show that their team is a contender "right now."

( Remember not to defer to the future, either, because any team "will be" a title contender in the future, including Portland, Cleveland, etc. We're talking about "right now," as you put it. )

You mean besides this?

National Basketball Association

W L PCT
Boston 41 10 .804
New Orleans 36 15 .706
Detroit 39 14 .736
Phoenix 37 16 .698
LA Lakers 36 17 .679
San Antonio 35 17 .673
Dallas 35 18 .660
Utah 35 19 .648
Houston 33 20 .623
Denver 33 20 .623
Orlando 34 21 .618
Golden State 32 21 .604
Toronto 28 23 .549
Cleveland 29 24 .547
Portland 28 25 .528
Washington 25 28 .472
Sacramento 24 28 .462
New Jersey 23 30 .434
Philadelphia 23 31 .426
Atlanta 21 29 .420
Chicago 21 31 .404
Indiana 21 32 .396
Milwaukee 19 34 .358
Charlotte 19 35 .352
LA Clippers 17 33 .340
New York 16 37 .302
Seattle 14 38 .269
Memphis 14 39 .264
Minnesota 11 41 .212
Miami 9 42 .176

 

[BeeBeard]

You mean besides this?

National Basketball Association

W L PCT
Boston 41 10 .804
New Orleans 36 15 .706
Detroit 39 14 .736
Phoenix 37 16 .698
LA Lakers 36 17 .679
San Antonio 35 17 .673

Yes, besides that.

 

[Renz]

Yes, besides that.

You wanted "right now" you got "right now". But it didn't support your argument so you are now bringing another team's past into the equation? That's weak.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

For the record (I know I am late to the game). I agree with Linderbee, Kobe shows how classless he really is with his response. If Amare had said it, I would call it immaturity, not classless - since he still is pretty young. Amare has said some stupid things in the past, but has learned from those comments.

Also, was anyone as surprised as I was to see Timmy vote for Nash? I found that quite odd.

I'm with Donald on this one. I love Kobe saying that (if he is on my team of course) and want all my players to have the "F*** you - your not on my team and I want to step on your throat if you get in the way of my ring" attitude. They are paid to play a professional sport. Its not about making friends. Its about building your legacy.

MJ had it, Kobe has it, and personally I would be very happy to hear Amare to say that. I want a take no prisoners attitude from my star.

And I am no Laker apologist but they are most definitely title contenders. When you have Phil Jackson (9 rings) Kobe Bryant (best player on the planet) two skilled 7 footers and a good mix of vets (Fisher and Rad) and youth (Turiaf and Farmar) you deserve that respect. And I didn't even mention Odom or Walton, two of my fav players from past history.

They are just a hair below DAL, PHX, and SA who have gone deep into the playoffs with their current cores. I would say the odds are like this:

Spurs 2 - 1
PHX 4-1
DAL 5 -1
LAL and Utah 6-1

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Fortson was feared because he was dirty.

Kobe is feared because he is an assassin. That comes with implicit respect.

Tell that to Ginobili's face.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

They are just a hair below DAL, PHX, and SA who have gone deep into the playoffs with their current cores. I would say the odds are like this:

Spurs 2 - 1
PHX 4-1
DAL 5 -1
LAL and Utah 6-1

At this point, I'd put the Spurs and the Suns at 4-1

 

[BeeBeard]

You wanted "right now" you got "right now". But it didn't support your argument so you are now bringing another team's past into the equation? That's weak.

Oh my fault. I forgot who you were for a second. You're the one who needs everything spelled out for you to understand it. It's kind of "weak" that I have to spend extra time because you're unable to do your own thinking. Well here goes.

News flash: Regular season records don't equate to playoff successes, nor do they indicate that a team is any closer than they were to getting a championship! That's the lesson that everybody (except you, apparently) learned from last year's Mavs team.

Suns fans don't go around saying "This is our year!" because of the standings. You're free to make that ostensibly stupid argument if you want (and in fact, you just already did). But here in Non-Crazyland, we don't pretend that the regular season is a barometer of playoff success because we know better than that.