Rivals has the Cardinals picking Calais Campbell

[joeshmo]

I thought the 3-4 requires extremely large, powerful DE's who have the assignment of taking on 2 o-lineman. 3-4 DE's are not required to be pass-rushing specialists, as they are in the 4-3, they just need to be big enough to neutralize the o-lineman to the LB's can fly around and make plays.

I may be completely wrong, as my knowledge of the 3-4 is not great yet.

You are right and its the exact reason why Campbell should not be in a 3-4 D.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

And again Cason is on the board.

 

[1DS]

You are right and its the exact reason why Campbell should not be in a 3-4 D.

seems like he fits the bill quite well. at 6'8" and 280 lbs, he should be plenty strong enough. Not to mention that he's probably going to fill out even more. He's probably going to get stronger, as he's only a rising junior according to the atricle. If he's got some pass-rushing ability, thats just extra gravy on the side (Green isn't the only one who can make food analogies, is he?).

Still not the guy i want...

 

[football karma]

I thought the 3-4 requires extremely large, powerful DE's who have the assignment of taking on 2 o-lineman. 3-4 DE's are not required to be pass-rushing specialists, as they are in the 4-3, they just need to be big enough to neutralize the o-lineman to the LB's can fly around and make plays.

I may be completely wrong, as my knowledge of the 3-4 is not great yet.

True -- in the tradional 3-4

there are variations that emphasis quickness and one gap techniques and the Cards run that, along with the Cowboys.

Chris Canty is 6-7 and 300 lbs and plays end for the Cowboys. While 300 might be the right weight, 6-7 is "lean" for the traditional 3-4 end. Richard Seymour of the Pats has a similiar build.

It wouldnt be a total stretch to draft Campbell with the expectation that he could man one of the end spots for the Cards 3-4.

 

[WildBB]

True -- in the tradional 3-4

there are variations that emphasis quickness and one gap techniques and the Cards run that, along with the Cowboys.

Chris Canty is 6-7 and 300 lbs and plays end for the Cowboys. While 300 might be the right weight, 6-7 is "lean" for the traditional 3-4 end. Richard Seymour of the Pats has a similiar build.

It wouldnt be a total stretch to draft Campbell with the expectation that he could man one of the end spots for the Cards 3-4.

Not gon happen. I think they're content with Dockett and A. Smith. Bigger area's of need. CB, OLB and RB IMO. I think if Groves is there it's a no brainer, unless they're totally sold on Stewart or the CB.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

I hear he's an upstanding citizen, though.

That's a plus.

 

[Skkorpion]

Defensive coordinators are hybridizing the 3-4 in many ways. Assumptions about the types and sizes of players needed to play each position in the 3-4 are no longer valid.

Basing opinions on player selections on outmoded assumptions will guarantee you only one thing: a severe outbreak of Stout attack.

That's where, at the end of April, you look at the total big-money free agent acquisitions (none), our player retentions and losses, our draft picks, find yourself liking none of it or just a few minor parts, then calling for a serving of Rod Graves' huevos, con salsa caliente or Pico de Gallo.

It's coming, ladies and gents, sure as climate change. And I'm actually looking forward to it.

Without that coming tsunami, this place would be boring.

 

[Mulli]

Defensive coordinators are hybridizing the 3-4 in many ways. Assumptions about the types and sizes of players needed to play each position in the 3-4 are no longer valid.

Basing opinions on player selections on outmoded assumptions will guarantee you only one thing: a severe outbreak of Stout attack.

That's where, at the end of April, you look at the total big-money free agent acquisitions (none), our player retentions and losses, our draft picks, find yourself liking none of it or just a few minor parts, then calling for a serving of Rod Graves' huevos, con salsa caliente or Pico de Gallo.

It's coming, ladies and gents, sure as climate change. And I'm actually looking forward to it.

Without that coming tsunami, this place would be boring.

hah!

 

[joeshmo]

seems like he fits the bill quite well. at 6'8" and 280 lbs, he should be plenty strong enough. Not to mention that he's probably going to fill out even more. He's probably going to get stronger, as he's only a rising junior according to the atricle. If he's got some pass-rushing ability, thats just extra gravy on the side (Green isn't the only one who can make food analogies, is he?).

Still not the guy i want...

At 6-8 280 pounds is not that much. A very skinny build. Example of Antionio Smith at 6-3 280 pounds and you have a very big difference in build. Plus he doesnt carry the weight well. Gained wieght to 280 this season and lost some of his burst and explosivness becuase of it. His production hurt becuase of it. There is also a matter of "stoutness"(I think I just made up a word). While Campbell has average to above average stoutness in a 4-3, he is not stout in a 3-4 D and needs more meat next to him. Campbells play also was hurt this year becuase his DT' in Miami's 4-3 stunk having even fewer bodies next to him he would have played even worse, telling me he needs to have some bodies next to him meaning a 4-3 D.

 

[DaisyCutter]

At 6-8 280 pounds is not that much. A very skinny build. Example of Antionio Smith at 6-3 280 pounds and you have a very big difference in build. Plus he doesnt carry the weight well. Gained wieght to 280 this season and lost some of his burst and explosivness becuase of it. His production hurt becuase of it. There is also a matter of "stoutness"(I think I just made up a word). While Campbell has average to above average stoutness in a 4-3, he is not stout in a 3-4 D and needs more meat next to him. Campbells play also was hurt this year becuase his DT' in Miami's 4-3 stunk having even fewer bodies next to him he would have played even worse, telling me he needs to have some bodies next to him meaning a 4-3 D.

Throw him in an undersized Tampa-2 scheme in Indy or Chicago and watch him explode. It's not going to happen here.

 

[spanky1]

At 6-8 280 pounds is not that much. A very skinny build. Example of Antionio Smith at 6-3 280 pounds and you have a very big difference in build. Plus he doesnt carry the weight well. Gained wieght to 280 this season and lost some of his burst and explosivness becuase of it. His production hurt becuase of it. There is also a matter of "stoutness"(I think I just made up a word). While Campbell has average to above average stoutness in a 4-3, he is not stout in a 3-4 D and needs more meat next to him. Campbells play also was hurt this year becuase his DT' in Miami's 4-3 stunk having even fewer bodies next to him he would have played even worse, telling me he needs to have some bodies next to him meaning a 4-3 D.

joeshmo,

Here is a compliment to you....you know your stuff and I always look forward to your posts.

 

[joeshmo]

joeshmo,

Here is a compliment to you....you know your stuff and I always look forward to your posts.

To be honest Shogun pointed out most of those points to me in a past thread. Of which I was able to watch a few more game snippets and highlights of his of which I concur with most of his assessment.

 

[football karma]

At 6-8 280 pounds is not that much. A very skinny build. Example of Antionio Smith at 6-3 280 pounds and you have a very big difference in build. Plus he doesnt carry the weight well. Gained wieght to 280 this season and lost some of his burst and explosivness becuase of it. His production hurt becuase of it. There is also a matter of "stoutness"(I think I just made up a word). While Campbell has average to above average stoutness in a 4-3, he is not stout in a 3-4 D and needs more meat next to him. Campbells play also was hurt this year becuase his DT' in Miami's 4-3 stunk having even fewer bodies next to him he would have played even worse, telling me he needs to have some bodies next to him meaning a 4-3 D.

Joe--

do you think that if he played at more of a "natural" weight of 270, he could play the Berry OLB spot?

Keep in mind, Berry played most of the season like a tradional 4-3 defensive end with his hand on the ground, standing up from time to time and dropping into coverage only occasionally.

I get that he doesnt stuff offensive tackles at the point of attack, but that is true of 90% of the defensive ends coming out of college these days.

The thing I have read is that he is an amazing athlete, and while I beleive in drafting players that fit your system, if he is the BPA on the board, I would hate to see the Cards pass on him just because he doesnt fit neatly into a box that defines exactly what a 3-4 de or olb should be built like.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe--

do you think that if he played at more of a "natural" weight of 270, he could play the Berry OLB spot?

No. You will have to take him out when you dont ask him to put his hand down. At 6-8 he does not have the hips and agility that Berry does to play standing up and drop into coverage when needed. Watching Campbell play he will only be effective with his hand on the ground IMO. Berry, Pace, and Okeafer would work in Pendys so called hybrid becuase all 3 can put their hands down and play standing up. Cannot say that for Campbell, which would make him a part time player and not good round 1 value.

The thing I have read is that he is an amazing athlete, and while I beleive in drafting players that fit your system, if he is the BPA on the board, I would hate to see the Cards pass on him just because he doesnt fit neatly into a box that defines exactly what a 3-4 de or olb should be built like.

He is a good athlete when compared to DE's. Not a good athlete when compared to DE/OLB hybrids. I also dont agree with the last sentiment. Picking round pegs to fit into square holes is not a good idea in any strategy. You wouldnt pick a zone blocking finesse OL for a power rush team because they were BPA would you?

I know one thing is certian there is no way he is a 3-4 DE/OLB hybrid, not nearly fluid enough or good enough lateral agility. If he can prove that he can carry his 280+ pounds better then he showed during the season in his workouts and show better strength as well then and only then would I think about him as a possibly fit in our scheme.

 

[WildBB]

I like your draft strategy of RB, OLB, CB, CB, P, Joe. I would add a TE (Blocking) . That is a good draft strategy based on who's there. But where we pick I'd bet that'd work out. I might even go OT in the 3rd or 4th depending. I think we need 2 CB's in this draft however. Or a least a CB and a cover S.