Robin Lopez vs. Marcin Gortat

[Chaplin]

Stats don't usually tell the whole story, but here's an interesting article about the comparisons between the two centers:

http://arizona.sbnation.com/phoenix...in-gortat-whos-the-better-phoenix-suns-center

 

[slinslin]

What I have been saying all along, the Suns usually play better when Robin Lopez is playing even if his personal stats aren't good.

 

[AfroSuns]

Nice article and i guess it makes sense that he is primarily blocking out, but dude still should be able to get more than 2rpg.
What that article didnt say though is how much have both put in as a starter not to mention the limited minutes Gortat saw in Orlando, Robin has also been with this team longer. Alvin also said Gortat is yet to completely grasp the Suns offense yet.
We should also bear in mind that Gortat started playing ball late, i am sure Robin started way earlier.
All in all, i am just glad, Suns have two serviceable bigs for the future.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Seems way too early to make any definitive statements about this situation, as Gortat has been with the team for what, a month?

 

[BC867]

Seems way too early to make any definitive statements about this situation, as Gortat has been with the team for what, a month?

Here is a thought I posted to the Suns at Cavaliers thread a couple of days ago, which touches on Gortat's age (older than Lopez) vs. his experience as an NBA starter (1/10 as much as Robin).

Now that we have a Robin vs. Marcin thread, it is more relevant here.

You are right. Marcin Gortat is the better player . . . despite having started only 6 games in his 3+ year NBA career. Robin Lopez has started 62 NBA games in his 3 years.

So the numbers show that Gortat has started one game with the Suns (six in all) and Lopez has started sixty-two.

The question isn't if Lopez will be better than Gortat when he reaches his age.

It is if Gortat will be even better than Lopez (as you said, he is the better player right now) when he reaches Robin's plateau of 62 games started.

I think we all know the answer to that. In this case, Robin's previous starting experience is producing less compared to Gortat's previously coming off the bench. Age is really not a predictive factor, given those circumstances.

I am concerned, however, with Gortat's slowness in learning the plays. As far as his being strong at the basket offensively, I have no doubt that it will come with confidence, as he had it with the Magic.

As far as who is better for the team starting at Center (after the 10-game commitment), I would like to see Marcin get the same chance as Robin for the next ten games.

 

[Mulli]

Wait, the Suns have plays on offense? For the center?

Kidding.

 

[BC867]

Wait, the Suns have plays on offense? For the center?

Kidding.

Play, not plays. Pick'n'Roll.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What I have been saying all along, the Suns usually play better when Robin Lopez is playing even if his personal stats aren't good.

Did you read that article? It only considers the 4 games that Robin played his best (well enough to warrant 20+ minutes). They came against Miami (legit), two horrible teams and the fourth game was against the injury depleted and probably demoralized Blazers. Not exactly a fair comparison even though Gortat's numbers didn't exactly come against the elite either. Most of the time Robin is out there, he's played so poorly that he's sent quickly to the bench where he remains for much of the game. Those numbers have been completely ignored in that "study".

I do think Robin helps us in some ways that probably get overlooked but that sampling is too small and too selective to reveal any hidden truths. Watching them play, Gortat simply appears to be a better basketball player. Marcin also spends more time with the 2nd group which also skews the stats somewhat.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

It's like comparing a rhino turd to a hippo turd, both are big, fall on the ground alot, and they both stink.

 

[jagu]

Neither stinks. Gortat looks like the smarter player but has problems on offense (way too soft around the rim) and does an excellent job on defense. Rolo plays with energy yet he has no idea how to rebound. His offensive touch is pretty good and he can make jumpers and free throws as well. And lately he's been a lot more agile (spin move, dunk on Chandler).

 

[desertdawg]

Neither stinks. Gortat looks like the smarter player but has problems on offense (way too soft around the rim) and does an excellent job on defense. Rolo plays with energy but he has no idea how to rebound but his offensive touch is pretty good and he can make jumpers and free throws as well. And lately he's been a lot more agile (spin move, dunk on Chandler).

They are better than what we've had in a good minute. Lopez looked like he was getting better and then I don't know. Gortat hyped himself up Don King style and I don't know.
The drunken Polish layup with a missed rebound is what you'll get most of the time out of this 14 foot monster. Both do have a chance to get better, LOLopez is young, and the layup just got here.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

"His rebound rate is 69th among 86 NBA centers, some of which barely play. This month, he is averaging 1.9 rebounds in 16.2 minutes per game and has been outrebounded by Steve Nash in each of the nine games."

Robin Lopez.

Pa - the - tic

 

[BC867]

Miami Heat's big men

I didn't want to start a new thread for this observation about big men, so I'll share it here.

I have no love for the Miami Heat for their coup in snagging James and Bosh to join Wade in the starting lineup, although that is primarily due to James' showboating. I wouldn't root for an Eastern team anyway.

But after comparing their 15-man full roster to the Suns 14-man roster, I certainly respect their front office knowledge of what it takes to be strong in the NBA.

Here goes . . .

The Heat have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 or more.

The Suns have 3.

The Heat's roster has a total of 9 players who weigh 235 or more.

The Suns have 4.

I'm drooling!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this observation about big men, so I'll share it here.

I have no love for the Miami Heat for their coup in snagging James and Bosh to join Wade in the starting lineup, although that is primarily due to James' showboating. I wouldn't root for an Eastern team anyway.

But after comparing their 15-man full roster to the Suns 14-man roster, I certainly respect their front office knowledge of what it takes to be strong in the NBA.

Here goes . . .

The Heat have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 or more.

The Suns have 3.

The Heat's roster has a total of 9 players who weigh 235 or more.

The Suns have 4.

I'm drooling!

Replace Wade with Jermaine Taylor, replace Lebron with Josh Childress and replace Bosh with 300 pound Garrett Siler. They still have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 pounds or more. Are you still drooling?

Steve

 

[BC867]

Replace Wade with Jermaine Taylor, replace Lebron with Josh Childress and replace Bosh with 300 pound Garrett Siler. They still have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 pounds or more. Are you still drooling?

Steve

But, of course, the Heat won't replace Wade with Jermaine Taylor or LeBron with Josh Childress or Bosh with Garrett Siler, because they know the meaning of a balanced roster.

We don't!

Yes, I'm still drooling.

But thank you for your serious response, Steve.

 

[Chaplin]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this observation about big men, so I'll share it here.

I have no love for the Miami Heat for their coup in snagging James and Bosh to join Wade in the starting lineup, although that is primarily due to James' showboating. I wouldn't root for an Eastern team anyway.

But after comparing their 15-man full roster to the Suns 14-man roster, I certainly respect their front office knowledge of what it takes to be strong in the NBA.

Here goes . . .

The Heat have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 or more.

The Suns have 3.

The Heat's roster has a total of 9 players who weigh 235 or more.

The Suns have 4.

I'm drooling!

Hmmm, let's see:

Joel Anthony 245
Erick Dampier 265
Juwan Howard 250
Zydrunas Ilgauskus 260
Lebron James 250 (??)
Jamaal Magloire 255
Dexter Pittman 308

Throw out James and Pittman for obvious reasons. One isn't a center and doesn't play like one, the other doesn't play.

Both Erick Dampier and Jamaal Magloire are no better than Lopez, so throw them out.

That leaves Joel Anthony, Big Z and Juwan Howard. I actually like Anthony, but Z and Howard are no better than Gortat. And none of them are as good as Channing.

So your only argument appears to be that you just want bodies, skill just isn't a factor. Hardly drool-worthy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But, of course, the Heat won't replace Wade with Jermaine Taylor or LeBron with Josh Childress or Bosh with Garrett Siler, because they know the meaning of a balanced roster.

We don't!

Yes, I'm still drooling.

But thank you for your serious response, Steve.

But my point is that it isn't the size not is it the balanced roster. It's 3 of the 10 best players on one team. No other team can boast of a trio such as that and they could be surrounded by Frye clones and would still be a force. Trade those three for an average 3 players and all that size would suddenly mean a lot less.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this observation about big men, so I'll share it here.

I have no love for the Miami Heat for their coup in snagging James and Bosh to join Wade in the starting lineup, although that is primarily due to James' showboating. I wouldn't root for an Eastern team anyway.

But after comparing their 15-man full roster to the Suns 14-man roster, I certainly respect their front office knowledge of what it takes to be strong in the NBA.

Here goes . . .

The Heat have 7 players on their roster who weigh 245 or more.

The Suns have 3.

The Heat's roster has a total of 9 players who weigh 235 or more.

The Suns have 4.

I'm drooling!

The Suns finally have four centers on their roster and now you start looking elsewhere. I guess your complaining about the Suns lacking size all these years was just a rue.

 

[AfroSuns]

The Suns finally have four centers on their roster and now you start looking elsewhere. I guess your complaining about the Suns lacking size all these years was just a rue.

 

[BC867]

The Suns finally have four centers on their roster and now you start looking elsewhere. I guess your complaining about the Suns lacking size all these years was just a rue.

C'mon now. The Suns have been a finesse/small ball team for decades, and you know it.

As far as right now . . .

I don't think Lopez at starting Center is going to make us a contender.

I don't like Gortat not getting the opportunity that Lopez had to show what he can do and to develop into a starter.

While Frye is rounding out somewhat as a Power Forward, we're missing a legitimate backup.

And Siler is certainly not in the rotation. So we have 1 1/2 Centers. And one who stretches to Power Forward.

We are carrying a smaller roster than the Heat, with four less players over 245 lbs. -- a total of five less players over 235 lbs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

C'mon now. The Suns have been a finesse/small ball team for decades, and you know it.

As far as right now . . .

I don't think Lopez at starting Center is going to make us a contender.

I don't like Gortat not getting the opportunity that Lopez had to show what he can do and to develop into a starter.

While Frye is rounding out somewhat as a Power Forward, we're missing a legitimate backup.

And Siler is certainly not in the rotation. So we have 1 1/2 Centers. And one who stretches to Power Forward.

We are carrying a smaller roster than the Heat, with four less players over 245 lbs. -- a total of five less players over 235 lbs.

Most of those Heat guys weighed under 200 pounds at the start of the season but they've been sitting on the bench eating popcorn and candy all season. I see no reason to ridicule them just because they're getting fat.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Most of those Heat guys weighed under 200 pounds at the start of the season but they've been sitting on the bench eating popcorn and candy all season. I see no reason to ridicule them just because they're getting fat.

Steve

Good one, Steve. LOL

 

[Chaplin]

Good one, Steve. LOL

Why do you put so much importance on who starts? We have a great rebounder coming off the bench (Gortat) and a good rebounder in the starting lineup (Frye). Why mess that up and have NO rebounders off the bench?

Gortat gets 3 times the minutes Robin does anyway, so why do you care so much?

 

[sunsfan88]

I actually like Gentry not starting Gortat.

Think about it. If Gortat starts, we'd have NO rebounders off the bench. If Lopez starts, we at least have Frye who's been doing a decent job of boxing out and rebounding lately.

 

[BC867]

Why do you put so much importance on who starts? We have a great rebounder coming off the bench (Gortat) and a good rebounder in the starting lineup (Frye). Why mess that up and have NO rebounders off the bench?

Gortat gets 3 times the minutes Robin does anyway, so why do you care so much?

I actually just answered that in the Wizards thread.

Yes, but we were quickly behind by, what, 10 points at the start of the game, then got back into it when Gortat came in.

Getting in the hole and starting the game weak in rebounding may work against the Wizards, as well as the three weak teams that preceeded them, but not against the .500-or-better teams of the NBA.

The short honeymoon is over and Lopez failed. Now it's back to the big time.

Think about it. If Gortat starts, we'd have NO rebounders off the bench. If Lopez starts, we at least have Frye who's been doing a decent job of boxing out and rebounding lately.

At this time, you're right. In the long run, we need a backup PF who can rebound if we're going to get any better.