Robin Lopez vs. Marcin Gortat

[Chaplin]

At this time, you're right. In the long run, we need a backup PF who can rebound if we're going to get any better.

Well, we definitely agree on that.

 

[elindholm]

So your only argument appears to be that you just want bodies, skill just isn't a factor.

Yes, as has been his argument in his last 239857014096710448610946813706 posts.

 

[AfroSuns]

I actually like Gentry not starting Gortat.

Think about it. If Gortat starts, we'd have NO rebounders off the bench. If Lopez starts, we at least have Frye who's been doing a decent job of boxing out and rebounding lately.

Well, that is quite a departure from your declaration last week that Gentry don't like Polish people.

 

[Chaplin]

The thing I'm liking about Gortat right now is that he's finally dunking the fracking ball. I got so sick of his soft layups.

 

[BC867]

At this time, you're right. In the long run, we need a backup PF who can rebound if we're going to get any better.

Well, we definitely agree on that.

Upon further thought, even though I don't like 219 lb. Power Forwards, Hakeem Warrick has been doing a good job of rebounding (as well as the P'n'R) in his limited time off the bench. So I don't think we would suffer with Gortat and Frye (our two top rebounders) in the starting lineup.

Yes, as has been his argument in his last 239857014096710448610946813706 posts.

Good one, Eric.

OMG, I'm taking on my two detractors from L.A. in one post.

 

[mojorizen7]

My money's on Gortat with the early 2nd rd knockout.

 

[sunsfan88]

At this time, you're right. In the long run, we need a backup PF who can rebound if we're going to get any better.

Yea. Soo damn ironic that we had one last season but decided to let him go! ****!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Covert Rain]

What I have been saying all along, the Suns usually play better when Robin Lopez is playing even if his personal stats aren't good.

Then explain how the Suns are almost always playing from behind after the start of the game with Lopez starting. Explain how the Suns are already trailing by large margins in rebounding when Robin starts.

The Suns clearly do not play better defensively when Robin starts. Even the article states:

Robin Lopez is a better offensive player and is improving game-by-game as his explosiveness and agility return to last year's (pre-injury) form. Marcin Gortat is a better on-ball defender, especially against some of the bigger, skilled power forwards like Pau Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge.

What do the Suns need more? Robin scoring or playing defense and rebounding? Now factor in that Gortat is improving on offense and quickly closing that gap.

How about this:

Gortat is an older, more experienced player but is still only about to turn 27 years old himself and just coming into his prime. He's a decent player but hasn't shown the ability to dominate the game on either end of the floor.

Robin has never really showed to be dominate on either side of the floor. He had one great game and one good game that sticks out in the middle of a bunch of stinkers.

Right now, Alvin Gentry is wisely starting Robin but is quick with the hook if he's having a bad night.

That is almost every single game. It's almost an every game occurrence to see Robin go to the bench after the start of each half...never to return.

Considering Gortat is still learning the Suns offensive system, he is bound to make mistakes on pick and rolls and rolling to the basket. He is also trying to develop a little jump shot.

What is Lopez's excuse? He has had over 60+ starts and doesn't appear to be improving at all. In fact, he seems to be regressing sometimes.

Gortat is clearly the better center no matter how much you choose to ignore that fact.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yea. Soo @#!*% ironic that we had one last season but decided to let him go! ****!!!!!!!!!!

That's the trade I would try to make before the deadline. Lawal, Pietrus, or Childress for Lou.

Then all we need is a solid, all-around (offense/defense) starting caliber 2. Buy out Carter and look for a Tayshaun Prince type of player. I would love to have JRich back.

 

[Covert Rain]

Neither stinks.

What is your definition of stinks? Lopez ranks 48th in overall efficiency from the Center position (meaning a bunch of backups play better) and currently battling it out for the worst defender among starting centers. He is one of the worst rebounding centers in the NBA.

How does that not "stink"?

 

[sunsfan88]

That's the trade I would try to make before the deadline. Lawal, Pietrus, or Childress for Lou.

Then all we need is a solid, all-around (offense/defense) starting caliber 2. Buy out Carter and look for a Tayshaun Prince type of player. I would love to have JRich back.

But then we'd end up with 3 PFs being paid big $$$.

Frye, Warrick & Lou

Even if we get Lou I think we need to ship out Warrick & something(s) else for PF that can score in the paint. We have lacked a legit post scoring presence this whole season.

And every good team with the exception of the Thunder have a reliable scorer in the paint.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why do you put so much importance on who starts? We have a great rebounder coming off the bench (Gortat) and a good rebounder in the starting lineup (Frye). Why mess that up and have NO rebounders off the bench?

Gortat gets 3 times the minutes Robin does anyway, so why do you care so much?

you call 6 rebs/game a "good rebounder?" outta the pf slot?

 

[Chaplin]

you call 6 rebs/game a "good rebounder?" outta the pf slot?

For the Phoenix Suns? ABSOLUTELY. Don't you?

 

[Superbone]

My money's on Gortat with the early 2nd rd knockout.

Yep. Robin wouldn't be able to handle Gortat's quickness. Lopez might get in a couple good blows but he would be spent by the end of the first round setting him up for the early 2nd round knockout.

 

[mojorizen7]

For the Phoenix Suns? ABSOLUTELY. Don't you?

"For the PHX Suns" you said. Yes,and this statement is just another reminder of the fact that they're doing it wrong.

How much longer are we going to have to witness this type of futility? And nobody can say this team got to where it is today by accident.....or thru hard luck. Thats the worst part(for me anyway as a frustrated,disinterested fan).

Who wants to see this team struggle to 35-40 wins and wind up with a mid to late rd pick,a year older and softer next season? Not me.
Good Lord, stop the bleeding and pull the plug. At least that way the direction is clear moving forward.

 

[BC867]

Bob Young's Heat Index column in today's AzCentral/Republic had an interesting piece about screening draftees by checking Facebook and MySpace.

Here is how it began.

We've decided that social networking - or anti-social networking for some people - is a blessing and a curse when it comes to our sports personalities.

Facebook and MySpace can provide a peek inside an athlete's life and thinking, such as when the Suns drafted Robin Lopez.

We checked out his MySpace page and found a lot of stuff there much more interesting than anything he's said in an interview.

We also noticed that he listed his interests "in order" and basketball came up behind drawing, writing, filming and volleyball.

Uh, oh.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/articles/2011/01/25/20110125social-media-athlete-rules.html

Basketball came in fifth. Priorities affect motivation. Hmmm.

 

[Chaplin]

Bob Young's Heat Index column in today's AzCentral/Republic had an interesting piece about screening draftees by checking Facebook and MySpace.

Here is how it began.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/articles/2011/01/25/20110125social-media-athlete-rules.html

Basketball came in fifth. Priorities affect motivation. Hmmm.

LOL, I hope you are just being sarcastic. Basing things on his Facebook page and a Heat Index article? Both are worth less than navel lint.

 

[JCSunsfan]

LOL, I hope you are just being sarcastic. Basing things on his Facebook page and a Heat Index article? Both are worth less than navel lint.

Disagree. Facebook shows you alot about a kid.

 

[BC867]

LOL, I hope you are just being sarcastic.

There was nothing sarcastic about my post.

Y'know, I don't respect sarcasm. It is one of the many reasons I was happy to leave the East coast for Phoenix over thirty-two years ago.

I like a definition I once heard of sarcasm -- it's a coward's way of insulting, pretending that it was only a joke.

Now back to the merits of the post.

Basing things on his Facebook page and a Heat Index article? Both are worth less than navel lint.

Are you not aware that many companies, when screening candidates for important jobs, check out Facebook and MySpace to learn more about the candidate, as did Bob Young in his Heat Index column?

Good or bad, this is the (easy) information age.

I'm curious why you think that where a young man's dedications and priorities lie are worthless, particularly when he's being paid millions of dollars to be better than his opponents, which directly affects his bosses' revenue.

Especially when that young man is tying up a position, but not showing significant improvement, traits that his twin brother is also displaying with the Nets.

Every GM and Coach better be employing sports psychology when dealing with these easy-money millionaires.

Volleyball is a greater interest to Lopez than basketball? That says something about him. And the Suns and fans in Phoenix are paying the price.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't take someone's list of priorities on Facebook as being gospel. Sitting down and talking with the young man and talking with his college coaches, his family, etc. will give you a better feel for him than freaking Facebook.

 

[Mulli]

I don't take someone's list of priorities on Facebook as being gospel. Sitting down and talking with the young man and talking with his college coaches, his family, etc. will give you a better feel for him than freaking Facebook.

Oh sure, but make a movie about facebook and you go gaga.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't take someone's list of priorities on Facebook as being gospel. Sitting down and talking with the young man and talking with his college coaches, his family, etc. will give you a better feel for him than freaking Facebook.

Except that the young man has been coached on how to respond and you may not be able to get to the true person. I think you have to look at Facebook, Twitter, MySpace etc in addition to personal meetings to get a real feel for the makeup of these guys. Of course, the more these social sites are scrutinized the less accurate (or available) they'll become. These kids, their families and their agents are not dumb. They'll start preparing for this tactic.

I think, in some cases, you really need to approach it the way the FBI does confidential investigations. When you apply for something that requires a clearance you have to list multiple contacts. They go to these contacts and ask them for other contacts. They interview neighbors, uninvolved classmates etc so they get an unrehearsed version rather than the story the kid wants told.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Except that the young man has been coached on how to respond and you may not be able to get to the true person. I think you have to look at Facebook, Twitter, MySpace etc in addition to personal meetings to get a real feel for the makeup of these guys. Of course, the more these social sites are scrutinized the less accurate (or available) they'll become. These kids, their families and their agents are not dumb. They'll start preparing for this tactic.

I think, in some cases, you really need to approach it the way the FBI does confidential investigations. When you apply for something that requires a clearance you have to list multiple contacts. They go to these contacts and ask them for other contacts. They interview neighbors, uninvolved classmates etc so they get an unrehearsed version rather than the story the kid wants told.

Steve

I guess if you're ruled by insecurity, you can look at his Facebook page and say that basketball isn't his first priority because it's on some ridiculous list, then fine. But unless he comes out and tells you that it's not, then you have no room to say anything.

The guy simply isn't a very good basketball player. There is nothing (except this Facebook list BC liked) that says he doesn't think basketball a priority. He's always been a good player in practice--it's not like he plays video games all the time. Why try to come up with phantom excuses. He's just not that good. Has nothing to do with his priorities as listed on his Facebook page. LOL

 

[jibikao]

I still take Lopez over Gortat even though I find Lopez so slow. His big size helps teammates get rebounds.

Gortat's offense seems so bad. He is so soft. I've only seen him dunk once in the highlights??


It's smart to start Lopez and if he has an off night, we'll play Gortat more. Hopefully Lopez can play better and play more minutes.

 

[BC867]

I guess if you're ruled by insecurity, you can look at his Facebook page and say that basketball isn't his first priority because it's on some ridiculous list, then fine. But unless he comes out and tells you that it's not, then you have no room to say anything.

With over thirty years of experience as General Manager and Director of Operations, etc., within industry -- choosing and hiring the best candidates for managerial positions, as well as production -- I can assure you that terms such as "insecurity" and "ridiculous" and basing decisions on "unless he comes out and tell you" were not the factors in the hiring process or decisions about keeping the employee.

And I'm talking about positions that paid upwards of $30,000 to $40,000/yr. at the time.

The Suns picked up the option on the 4th year of Robin Lopez's contract for $2.87 million in this final season. $2,870,000 vs. $40,000.

An intelligent HR person (or GM) should use every means at his disposal to anticipate the priorities and probabilities of his or her candidates.

This does bring up an interesting question. In this, the last year of Robin's contract (when most NBA players do their best -- not that I buy that as being conscientious), should we be giving him preferential treatment over Gortat (in the starting lineup with Nash) or reasoning that Gortat should have his chance now?

Upon thinking about it, perhaps we should look to trade Lopez, after three and a half years of mostly disappointment and go with Siler as Gortat's backup for the rest of the season.

I know that Lopez showed some good signs last year but that was with a strong all-star Power Forward next to him. But time has proven that the Suns do not put a strong Center and Power Forward on the floor (or roster) at the same time. It is either one or the other.

What do you guys think?