Rookie Class

[MadCardDisease]

This isn't a Cardinals problem, this is a drafting for everyone problem. It IS crazy to think that you can regularly be drafting 3 legit starters and good backups. NOBODY is consistently drafting 3 legit starters AND quality role players consistently.

This is true. However as was mentioned before you have to take into account the circumstances of the draft. Early Draft position / Extra Draft Picks / Deep Positions at an area of need all come into play. The Cardinals should have 2 seasons of drafting early and having extra picks. That should equate to a better chance at landing starters in the draft.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This isn't a Cardinals problem, this is a drafting for everyone problem. It IS crazy to think that you can regularly be drafting 3 legit starters and good backups. NOBODY is consistently drafting 3 legit starters AND quality role players consistently.

The Cardinals did it in 2003 AND 2004.

Man this is maybe your worst argument ever.

 

[MadCardDisease]

This isn't a Cardinals problem, this is a drafting for everyone problem. It IS crazy to think that you can regularly be drafting 3 legit starters and good backups. NOBODY is consistently drafting 3 legit starters AND quality role players consistently.

Now consider next year's draft for the Cardinals. The Cardinals currently have 7 picks in the top 100 of next year's draft. That's an impressive haul. I don't see why the Cardinals can't again come out of the 2024 draft with another 3-4 starter quality players and a few other role player types.

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[ASUCHRIS]

The Cardinals did it in 2003 AND 2004.

Man this is maybe your worst argument ever.

Wonderful! Then it will be easy for you to find me several teams that are CONSISTENTLY drafting 3 LEGIT starters AND quality role players at the same time.

Can't wait!

Edit - and if this is my worst argument ever...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! That's an incredible compliment.

 

[kerouac9]

The Cardinals did it in 2003 AND 2004.

Man this is maybe your worst argument ever.

2003 is kind of a stretch. Reggie Wells and Anquan Boldin were the only starters from that draft class.

Calvin Pace started zero games in 2004 and only six games total over the three seasons after his rookie year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Now consider next year's draft for the Cardinals. The Cardinals currently have 7 picks in the top 100 of next year's draft. That's an impressive haul. I don't see why the Cardinals can't again come out of the 2024 draft with another 3-4 starter quality players and a few other role player types.

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The circumstances are ripe for the result at this point for 2024 - that's not what the original discussion was though. We were talking about how realistic it is to get 3 legit starters and decent role players on a consistent basis draft to draft.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The circumstances are ripe for the result at this point for 2024 - that's not what the original discussion was though. We were talking about how realistic it is to get 3 legit starters and decent role players on a consistent basis draft to draft.

Well we must be on a different page then. I've been talking about the Cardinals 2023 and 2024 drafts.

 

[Krangodnzr]

2003 is kind of a stretch. Reggie Wells and Anquan Boldin were the only starters from that draft class.

Hayes was a quality starter for four years.

Calvin Pace started zero games in 2004 and only six games total over the three seasons after his rookie year.

Calvin Pace started a total of 153 games in his career. Nonsense. It took him until 2005 to be a regular starter; the Cardinals were so dysfunctional back then that they didn't realize he was a 3-4 backer until then.

What this exercise shows is that sometimes guys don't become immediate starters though.

If you're being generous, you could also throw in Bryant Johnson since he did start 74 career games and was basically just a replacement level guy.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

If you're being generous, you could also throw in Bryant Johnson since he did start 74 career games and was basically just a replacement level guy.

Skillet hands

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wonderful! Then it will be easy for you to find me several teams that are CONSISTENTLY drafting 3 LEGIT starters AND quality role players at the same time.

Can't wait!

Edit - and if this is my worst argument ever...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! That's an incredible compliment.

I'm not your monkey, boy. You demand something that requires effort from me because of your own inability to find the information or willful ignorance on other teams historical data. You can look up the information it's our there and happens often.

I found back to back years where the Cardinals found 4+ starters. There are other years that this happened as well.

The Cardinals have a ton of picks and if this next draft looks like this year's draft, they should be able to find 3-4 more starters.

 

[PACardsFan]

Any mention of Gaines on this thread. Sucks he was injured in the preseason, but I expect him to make major strides next season. He’s super bright, and super nasty.

 

[kerouac9]

Hayes was a quality starter for four years.

Calvin Pace started a total of 153 games in his career. Nonsense. It took him until 2005 to be a regular starter; the Cardinals were so dysfunctional back then that they didn't realize he was a 3-4 backer until then.

What this exercise shows is that sometimes guys don't become immediate starters though.

If you're being generous, you could also throw in Bryant Johnson since he did start 74 career games and was basically just a replacement level guy.

Like, this stuff is easy enough to look up. Hayes started three games in his first two seasons and was a replacement-level player when he did get elevated to the starting lineup.

How Calvin Pace played for the Jets is not germane to the conversation we're having here. Bryant Johnson's anonymous 35 starts for the 49ers, Lions, and Texans are interesting for future Immaculate Grid purposes, but little else.

What the Cards need to accelerate to relevance is 3-4 solid-starters or better from their rookie class. No one is interested in wallowing in sub-mediocrity while Owen Pappoe slowly develops.

 

[TheCardFan]

Now consider next year's draft for the Cardinals. The Cardinals currently have 7 picks in the top 100 of next year's draft. That's an impressive haul. I don't see why the Cardinals can't again come out of the 2024 draft with another 3-4 starter quality players and a few other role player types.

Not out of the question that they trade down from our top pick a bit and pick-up another #1 pick in 2025.

 

[kerouac9]

Not out of the question that they trade down from our top pick a bit and pick-up another #1 pick in 2025.

I wonder if they can trade out from the Texans pick and grab another second and maybe a 2025 first. Maybe not, though. It seems like teams are mostly moving up or down a few picks to get there.

 

[Stout]

This is true. However as was mentioned before you have to take into account the circumstances of the draft. Early Draft position / Extra Draft Picks / Deep Positions at an area of need all come into play. The Cardinals should have 2 seasons of drafting early and having extra picks. That should equate to a better chance at landing starters in the draft.

Should, but it often doesn't. More often that not. How many bad teams stayed bad despite consistently drafting near the top? Hopefully we're not going to be a similar team. Early results are promising--draft wise, not FA-wise or on-field wise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

2003 is kind of a stretch. Reggie Wells and Anquan Boldin were the only starters from that draft class.

Calvin Pace started zero games in 2004 and only six games total over the three seasons after his rookie year.

Oh burn

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like, this stuff is easy enough to look up. Hayes started three games in his first two seasons and was a replacement-level player when he did get elevated to the starting lineup.

How Calvin Pace played for the Jets is not germane to the conversation we're having here. Bryant Johnson's anonymous 35 starts for the 49ers, Lions, and Texans are interesting for future Immaculate Grid purposes, but little else.

What the Cards need to accelerate to relevance is 3-4 solid-starters or better from their rookie class. No one is interested in wallowing in sub-mediocrity while Owen Pappoe slowly develops.

Not to mention, when we are talking about plucking 3 starters what we are really talking about is 3 high level starters for many years. If they’re guys who start because the rest of your players suck, or they start for another team, it’s not really what we’re talking about. Including a mediocre player like Hayes in an argument is shallow because he wouldn’t have been a foundational guy on an even average team.